Pathfinder Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous Beta Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Sharpedge]

Well, I cleared out the grey garrison and got my first mythic point. Party atm is Ember, Lann, Nenio, Me (oracle), Seelah and Woljif. Liking them enough so far that I am considering multiple playthroughs with companions rather than playing solo later on, which is a relief, since it has been a very long time since companions in an RPG haven't just irritated me. I am planning on going the Aeon route to start off with, it currently looks the most interesting to me. In terms of combat, I really liked being ambushed by invisible enemies in the market area. I am looking forward to some (hopefully) interesting fights further on.

 

[smaug]

Nigga, I haven’t played the game yet

Then stop crying about shit you haven't even seen yet, fucktard. That's was exactly my point.

I was asking a question you fucking retard, read my post.

 

[Desiderius]

A question with a false premise.

https://www.britannica.com/art/bathos

What happens when one is so afraid of pathos (suffering) that one falls into a butthurt a-pathy.

 

[Desiderius]

Yes, we know, but once you play Wrath awhile you’ll feel better.

Someone said on the forum it’s likely that 0.63 had a lot of bugfixes that 0.80 (the current one with all content added for first four Acts) doesn’t have yet so they’re adding them on the fly with all the conflicts that creates.

 

[CodexTotalWar]

Glad to hear that magical item distribution is better in WoTR. This was definitely an issue at launch for PF:KM (i.e. Slingstaffs, etc), although they've done a really good job fixing it between the DLCs and patches.

I still don't love how exotic weapon profs are implemented in 3.5e / PF (really encouraged metagaming in a videogame context), but it's really out of Owlcat's control.

 

[Parabalus]

I just hate being a martial character and running into a cool martial weapon that I’m not specialized in, but oh well

yeah it's such a simple argument I can't for my life understand why people are so protective of their specialization systems

Then... don't pick specialization feats? It's not like anyone or anything forces you to do that.

What's this "specialization system" that supposedly exists in this game anyway? Weapon Focus and Improved Critical? If you want to play the "master of a single weapon" you can do so at your own peril, if you want to be able to use all the weapons with the same efficiency then just pick other feats.

Shatter defenses is the big one.

But Shatter Defenses works regardless of the weapon you use. Did they change that in WotR?

To pick it in most cases you still need focus.

Usually that steers you towards that one type, even if its mostly larp.

 

[Desiderius]

There’s something for everyone including a sick Sling Staff at the vendors and there are also some great drops on top of that and the companion weapon to tide you over if you miss out.

 

[Desiderius]

 

[Desiderius]

It’s a fun little thing to do but as you note you’re destroying the main benefit of the Bard/Skald class which is the Double Action economy by using one half to do the other.

You could be casting and singing at the same time. Instead it just casts, and not particularly well.

People made the same mistake with Thundercaller. People think of H’aer D’alis or whatever and compared to that it’s great but compared to base Skald it’s not so hot.

 

[Desiderius]

The race-specific classes on the other hand are all full of interest.

 

[LannTheStupid]

Your fists are a weapon.

A game designer should treat them as such.

For example - dip your fists into molten Durgan steel to increase the unarmed attack speed.

 

[TumblingTorin]

I'd be fine with weapon specialization if there wasn't like 50+ types of weapons. I like the Weapon Focus Plus mod since it condense it to a more manageable 12 (Based on the weapon training).
I mean look at this.

• Axes: Battleaxe, Dwarven Waraxe, Greataxe, Handaxe, Heavy Pick, Light Pick, Tongi
• Heavy Blades: Bastard Sword, Dueling Sword, Elven Curve Blade, Estoc, Falcata, Falchion, Greatsword, Longsword, Scimitar, Scythe
• Light Blades: Dagger, Kukri, Rapier, Shortsword, Sickle, Starknife
• Bows: Longbow, Shortbow (including composite bows)
• Close: Punching Dagger, Spiked Light Shield, Spiked Heavy Shield, Heavy Shield, Light Shield
• Crossbows: Hand Crossbow, Heavy Crossbow, Light Crossbow
• Double: Orc Double Axe, Double-bladed Sword, Gnome Hooked Hammer, Dwarven Urgrosh
• Flails / Hammers: Club, Earth Breaker, Flail, Greatclub, Heavy Flail, Heavy Mace, Light Hammer, Light Mace, Warhammer
• Monk: Kama, Nunchaku, Quarterstaff, Sai, Shuriken, Siangham
• Polearms: Bardiche, Fauchard, Glaive
• Spears: Longspear, Shortspear, Spear, Trident
• Thrown: Bomb, Dart, Javelin, Sling, Sling Staff, Throwing Axe

A few of these weapon types aren't in the CRPGs but most are.

 

[The_Mask]

For example - dip your fists into molten Durgan steel to increase the unarmed attack speed.

You know... PoE gets a lot of shit, but I, for one, had a much better 1st experience with the game, because I played a monk. You see Josh Sawyer *may* be a mediocre director, but he is a hard working mediocre director. By which I mean Sawyer postulated that a human being has 2 arms, and if you use both arms to fight, then what that means - essentially - is that you're wielding 2 weapons. So a monk in PoE 1 fully uses any traits or perks that improve dual wielding.

So your joke is 50% funny, but also 50% serious. Maybe unintentionally so. If you RP a monk, and you choose to pick that monk companion to come along with you, you do "dip your fists into molten Durgan steel" metaphorically, because you get a lot more for the rest of your crew.

 

[Desiderius]

I'd be fine with weapon specialization if there wasn't like 50+ types of weapons. I like the Weapon Focus Plus mod since it condense it to a more manageable 12 (Based on the weapon training).
I mean look at this.

• Axes: Battleaxe, Dwarven Waraxe, Greataxe, Handaxe, Heavy Pick, Light Pick, Tongi
• Heavy Blades: Bastard Sword, Dueling Sword, Elven Curve Blade, Estoc, Falcata, Falchion, Greatsword, Longsword, Scimitar, Scythe
• Light Blades: Dagger, Kukri, Rapier, Shortsword, Sickle, Starknife
• Bows: Longbow, Shortbow (including composite bows)
• Close: Punching Dagger, Spiked Light Shield, Spiked Heavy Shield, Heavy Shield, Light Shield
• Crossbows: Hand Crossbow, Heavy Crossbow, Light Crossbow
• Double: Orc Double Axe, Double-bladed Sword, Gnome Hooked Hammer, Dwarven Urgrosh
• Flails / Hammers: Club, Earth Breaker, Flail, Greatclub, Heavy Flail, Heavy Mace, Light Hammer, Light Mace, Warhammer
• Monk: Kama, Nunchaku, Quarterstaff, Sai, Shuriken, Siangham
• Polearms: Bardiche, Fauchard, Glaive
• Spears: Longspear, Shortspear, Spear, Trident
• Thrown: Bomb, Dart, Javelin, Sling, Sling Staff, Throwing Axe

A few of these weapon types aren't in the CRPGs but most are.

You're missing the entire point. There's no reason to specialize in the first place. 90% of classes use weapon categories broader than those already.

You don't need a mod you need to play the fucking game we have instead of this imaginary one in your head.

The really interesting thing about all those weapon types is that they all do something slightly different and that they manage to make the martial version slightly better than the simple and slightly worse than the exotic.

 

[mediocrepoet]

I'd be fine with weapon specialization if there wasn't like 50+ types of weapons. I like the Weapon Focus Plus mod since it condense it to a more manageable 12 (Based on the weapon training).
I mean look at this.

• Axes: Battleaxe, Dwarven Waraxe, Greataxe, Handaxe, Heavy Pick, Light Pick, Tongi
• Heavy Blades: Bastard Sword, Dueling Sword, Elven Curve Blade, Estoc, Falcata, Falchion, Greatsword, Longsword, Scimitar, Scythe
• Light Blades: Dagger, Kukri, Rapier, Shortsword, Sickle, Starknife
• Bows: Longbow, Shortbow (including composite bows)
• Close: Punching Dagger, Spiked Light Shield, Spiked Heavy Shield, Heavy Shield, Light Shield
• Crossbows: Hand Crossbow, Heavy Crossbow, Light Crossbow
• Double: Orc Double Axe, Double-bladed Sword, Gnome Hooked Hammer, Dwarven Urgrosh
• Flails / Hammers: Club, Earth Breaker, Flail, Greatclub, Heavy Flail, Heavy Mace, Light Hammer, Light Mace, Warhammer
• Monk: Kama, Nunchaku, Quarterstaff, Sai, Shuriken, Siangham
• Polearms: Bardiche, Fauchard, Glaive
• Spears: Longspear, Shortspear, Spear, Trident
• Thrown: Bomb, Dart, Javelin, Sling, Sling Staff, Throwing Axe

A few of these weapon types aren't in the CRPGs but most are.

They should make it more like Oblivion. You see they really got to the heart of the matter by condensing this to blade, blunt, and hand to hand.
But I mean, whether axes are bladed or blunt weapons has caused a lot of contention, so it's really less controversial to take some tips from the improvements Skyrim made and just have one-handed and two-handed weapon skills. No more trap choices! We can all be heroes!

 

[TumblingTorin]

You're missing the entire point. There's no reason to specialize in the first place. 90% of classes use weapon categories broader than those already.

You don't need a mod you need to play the fucking game we have instead of this imaginary one in your head.

The really interesting thing about all those weapon types is that they all do something slightly different and that they manage to make the martial version slightly better than the simple and slightly worse than the exotic.

I have played both KM and WOTR without the mod already and I already know which weapon have the best availability. My point is that there is no need to have 50+ different weapon categories, especially if you have to use a feat to get access to one. Kingmaker had a problem of some weapon types have good weapons in the beginning or the end-game but barely anything in the mid-game. I have meta knowledge to know what to go for, but for some one starting out, choosing a weapon to focus on is a shot in the dark. Wrath at least has Finneon to fill in the gaps.

And for the weapon types being slightly different. Their can be differences in stats without having to be in another weapon category. Remember the Bloodhound dueling sword in Kingmaker? Normally dueling swords have a crit range of 19-20, but the Bloodhound has a crit range of 18-20.

 

[jungl]

weapon focus/specialization in one weapon type is annoying, very dumb and a boring choice of feat selection for a player. The solution is ultimately to not give a fuck. At the end of the day every martial character going to hit average for 40-100 late game and every spell caster 150+ with their spells.

 

[Heroic Liberator]

I'd be fine with weapon specialization if there wasn't like 50+ types of weapons.

My main issue with it is that some of the more exotic types of weapons are rarer in such games (at least in Kingmaker) and that the fancier variants are never properly balanced in their distribution due to them being unique items rather than randomized loot.

That said, randomized loot has its appeal too. So in this regard, I think that the best compromise is to simply implement a proper crafting system which allows you to design a weapon however you like it and to upgrade it throughout your playthrough. As long as it reflects the sort of weapons that can be crafted in the TTRPG version of Pathfinder, there's nothing wrong with it.

Only possible issue that I can see is that some 'purists' would be annoyed that they now have to use the crafting system too if they want to have the best possible weapon for their particular character rather than just metagaming which unique weapon implemented as loot they should go after.

 

[TumblingTorin]

weapon focus/specialization in one weapon type is annoying, very dumb and a boring choice of feat selection for a player. The solution is ultimately to not give a fuck. At the end of the day every martial character going to hit average for 40-100 late game and every spell caster 150+ with their spells.

I'd actually prefer not to have weapon specialization and have things be more focused on having monster with different weapon resistances and weaknesses like having to use blunt weapons against skellies or axes against Treants. Makes monsters and combat more different, and gives you a reason to keep all the weapons you find instead of selling them because they don't fit your build.

I'd be fine with weapon specialization if there wasn't like 50+ types of weapons.

My main issue with it is that some of the more exotic types of weapons are rarer in such games (at least in Kingmaker) and that the fancier variants are never properly balanced in their distribution due to them being unique items rather than randomized loot.

That said, randomized loot has its appeal too. So in this regard, I think that the best compromise is to simply implement a proper crafting system which allows you to design a weapon however you like it and to upgrade it throughout your playthrough. As long as it reflects the sort of weapons that can be crafted in the TTRPG version of Pathfinder, there's nothing wrong with it.

Only possible issue that I can see is that some 'purists' would be annoyed that they now have to use the crafting system too if they want to have the best possible weapon for their particular character rather than just metagaming which unique weapon implemented as loot they should go after.

In Wrath, you at least get the talking weapon that can shift to any weapon you want pretty early.

They should make it more like Oblivion. You see they really got to the heart of the matter by condensing this to blade, blunt, and hand to hand.
But I mean, whether axes are bladed or blunt weapons has caused a lot of contention, so it's really less controversial to take some tips from the improvements Skyrim made and just have one-handed and two-handed weapon skills. No more trap choices! We can all be heroes!

Morrowind did it better. Variety within the categories.

 

[Desiderius]

I'd be fine with weapon specialization if there wasn't like 50+ types of weapons.

My main issue with it is that some of the more exotic types of weapons are rarer in such games (at least in Kingmaker) and that the fancier variants are never properly balanced in their distribution due to them being unique items rather than randomized loot.

That said, randomized loot has its appeal too. So in this regard, I think that the best compromise is to simply implement a proper crafting system which allows you to design a weapon however you like it and to upgrade it throughout your playthrough. As long as it reflects the sort of weapons that can be crafted in the TTRPG version of Pathfinder, there's nothing wrong with it.

Only possible issue that I can see is that some 'purists' would be annoyed that they now have to use the crafting system too if they want to have the best possible weapon for their particular character rather than just metagaming which unique weapon implemented as loot they should go after.

Spoiler:

They are not, in fact, rarer.

 

[Desiderius]

weapon focus/specialization in one weapon type is annoying, very dumb and a boring choice of feat selection for a player. The solution is ultimately to not give a fuck. At the end of the day every martial character going to hit average for 40-100 late game and every spell caster 150+ with their spells.

I'd actually prefer not to have weapon specialization and have things be more focused on having monster with different weapon resistances and weaknesses like having to use blunt weapons against skellies or axes against Treants. Makes monsters and combat more different, and gives you a reason to keep all the weapons you find instead of selling them because they don't fit your build.

I'd be fine with weapon specialization if there wasn't like 50+ types of weapons.

My main issue with it is that some of the more exotic types of weapons are rarer in such games (at least in Kingmaker) and that the fancier variants are never properly balanced in their distribution due to them being unique items rather than randomized loot.

That said, randomized loot has its appeal too. So in this regard, I think that the best compromise is to simply implement a proper crafting system which allows you to design a weapon however you like it and to upgrade it throughout your playthrough. As long as it reflects the sort of weapons that can be crafted in the TTRPG version of Pathfinder, there's nothing wrong with it.

Only possible issue that I can see is that some 'purists' would be annoyed that they now have to use the crafting system too if they want to have the best possible weapon for their particular character rather than just metagaming which unique weapon implemented as loot they should go after.

In Wrath, you at least get the talking weapon that can shift to any weapon you want pretty early.

They should make it more like Oblivion. You see they really got to the heart of the matter by condensing this to blade, blunt, and hand to hand.
But I mean, whether axes are bladed or blunt weapons has caused a lot of contention, so it's really less controversial to take some tips from the improvements Skyrim made and just have one-handed and two-handed weapon skills. No more trap choices! We can all be heroes!

Morrowind did it better. Variety within the categories.

Everything you’re describing is already in game. You’re worse than the idiot in the video.

 

[Heroic Liberator]

Spoiler:

They are not, in fact, rarer.

So you say.

 

[Desiderius]

Indeed, what’s rare? You’re guaranteed to get a unique of everything but Throwing weapons.

 

[smaug]

I'd be fine with weapon specialization if there wasn't like 50+ types of weapons. I like the Weapon Focus Plus mod since it condense it to a more manageable 12 (Based on the weapon training).
I mean look at this.

• Axes: Battleaxe, Dwarven Waraxe, Greataxe, Handaxe, Heavy Pick, Light Pick, Tongi
• Heavy Blades: Bastard Sword, Dueling Sword, Elven Curve Blade, Estoc, Falcata, Falchion, Greatsword, Longsword, Scimitar, Scythe
• Light Blades: Dagger, Kukri, Rapier, Shortsword, Sickle, Starknife
• Bows: Longbow, Shortbow (including composite bows)
• Close: Punching Dagger, Spiked Light Shield, Spiked Heavy Shield, Heavy Shield, Light Shield
• Crossbows: Hand Crossbow, Heavy Crossbow, Light Crossbow
• Double: Orc Double Axe, Double-bladed Sword, Gnome Hooked Hammer, Dwarven Urgrosh
• Flails / Hammers: Club, Earth Breaker, Flail, Greatclub, Heavy Flail, Heavy Mace, Light Hammer, Light Mace, Warhammer
• Monk: Kama, Nunchaku, Quarterstaff, Sai, Shuriken, Siangham
• Polearms: Bardiche, Fauchard, Glaive
• Spears: Longspear, Shortspear, Spear, Trident
• Thrown: Bomb, Dart, Javelin, Sling, Sling Staff, Throwing Axe

A few of these weapon types aren't in the CRPGs but most are.

You're missing the entire point. There's no reason to specialize in the first place. 90% of classes use weapon categories broader than those already.

You don't need a mod you need to play the fucking game we have instead of this imaginary one in your head.

The really interesting thing about all those weapon types is that they all do something slightly different and that they manage to make the martial version slightly better than the simple and slightly worse than the exotic.

The point is the ridiculous implementation of weapon specialization is the problem and the fact that there is no reason to do it.

 

[Heroic Liberator]

Indeed, what’s rare? You’re guaranteed to get a unique of everything but Throwing weapons.

You're guaranteed to get one somewhere while for other weapon types there are plenty of options. Not to mention that for some of those weapon types, like club or dwarven waraxe, you don't even have one fancy +5 variant with added properties as most other types of weapons do.

Why would it bother you if there was an option to craft such things?