How important are puzzles in RPGs?

[Moaning_Clock]

While some great RPGs focus a lot on puzzles and have them as an integral part of their gameplay (like LoG 1&2), many have only a few (like Morrowind or Skyrim) or even none (like DR).

I always like it when they are included (although it was a bit much for me in LoG 1&2) but I don't miss them when they aren't. Like a side dish in a way.

What does the codex think?

 

[Fowyr]

Depends on the sub-genre. Mostly essential for the dungeon crawler ( I presume that map puzzles are puzzles too). For example Dungeon Master, The Summoning, Dark Heart of Uukrul, Wizardry 4.

 

[Zanzoken]

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

Puzzles are a key component of exploration, and exploration is the paramount aspect of RPGs.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

about as important as lockpicking minigames

 

[anvi]

Not necessary at all, but if you can make nice puzzles then do a few. If not please don't. Pass it on.

 

[Butter]

If combat isn't a puzzle, you're playing popamole.

 

[V_K]

- Puzzles provide good motivation to explore. Better than quests I'd argue because they're less straightforward (you're not told what mcguffin to get but have to figure it out on your own) and can't be spoiled by a quest compass.
- For large-scale puzzles, you need space - to hide the clues and key items, so the solution would not be immediately obvious. This provides a reason for side areas to exist, leading to larger and less linear levels.
- Puzzles help pace the game so it doesn't get repetitive. This is a question of good level design though, because of course having the same type puzzle over and over again would get old fast. But alternating between different types of puzzles with combats and dialogs can create a very good rhythm.
- Puzzles, when designed right, can provide good use for non-combat skills and lore - things that are otherwise good to have in RPGs, but tend to get underutilized and therefore superfluous.

 

[DalekFlay]

I like dungeon puzzle type shit in Tomb Raider style games, but in CRPGs I usually don't. If they require a lot of walking back and forth then I tend to get pretty annoyed, especially if any of that walking needs to be precise.

 

[Falksi]

Like everything else depends on how it's done and the context in which it's done too.

 

[Shadenuat]

an rpg is one big puzzle box,
a puzzlewell.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Puzzles suck and should be almost nonexistent, except in a few cases.
Why?
Puzzles are artificial. Go ahead, try to think of one time you've had to solve a puzzle in real life that wasn't some form of a puzzle game. And the problem with being artificial is that they always have their own rules that you must follow or otherwise you solved it incorrectly -- or else most of them would be too simple.
How many puzzles have you encountered in RPGs that have more than one solution?

Consider the legendary Gordian Knot. Until that dang cheater came along, everyone treated it like a puzzle with rules that must be followed. Alexander treated it like a problem, not a puzzle. Thinking outside the box, he overcame the problem.

Bad:
You must defeat the Troll guarding the bridge at some arbitrary minigame that's vaguely related to the game itself. No, you may not use any of your character's spells or tricks and all of the RP parts of the game are disabled.
Good:
You must use the game's mechanics to figure out how to solve the problem of a bridge you need to cross being guarded by a troll.

Don't confuse problems with puzzles.

 

[Bester]

If a puzzle is too easy (Skyrim), then it's childish and annoying.

If a puzzle isn't immediately obvious, then it's likely I'll never solve it, meaning it's too difficult, and the game is punishing me for no good reason.

No puzzles is the way to go.
- Dark Souls had secrets, but no puzzles.
- BG:TOB had a puzzle, I had to go to an internet cafe to google that shit. It was frustrating beyond belief.
Secrets is what improves exploration, not puzzles. Fuck puzzles, never want to see them in RPGs.

 

[Apostle Hand]

what the fuck do you need puzzles in rpgs
they're boring and very hard to work out

 

[bionicman]

Puzzles should be optional if they're included, since not everyone has patience or intelligence to solve them.

However, in my opinion, puzzles add a nice variety to the gameplay of some RPGs (when there is only one thing to do, i.e. fighting, a game can get boring no matter how fun the combat is), and can make dungeons feel more interesting.

Also, a problem with puzzles, roleplaying-wise, is if all other obstacles (e.g. traps) are solved through the use of PC's skills and stats, then there's dissonance if puzzles are not solved by the player character(s) but by the person playing the game, e.g. a low-intelligence character could then solve a puzzle that only realistically a smart character would solve.

 

[grimace]

Are puzzles the reason most people give up and read a FAQ?

 

[alighieri]

While some great RPGs focus a lot on puzzles and have them as an integral part of their gameplay (like LoG 1&2), many have only a few (like Morrowind or Skyrim) or even none (like DR).

I always like it when they are included (although it was a bit much for me in LoG 1&2) but I don't miss them when they aren't. Like a side dish in a way.

What does the codex think?

Puzzles are a nice variety to the gameplay of RPGs and I welcome them. However, I think most puzzles are poorly done and don't add anything of value to the game. A recent of example of a game that executed puzzles really well is probably Crosscode, where puzzles were an integral part of the dungeon design.

 

[Undead Phoenix]

If you want to know how important puzzles are in RPGs, you must first answer the most important question of all.

What is an RPG?

Spoiler

I like them and think they can offer a nice change of pace, but be aware most people are just going to look up how to do them online. I'd advise skipping any of the simpler types of logic puzzle, the ones that pop up in what feels like every single game, the novelty wore off a decade ago.

 

[laclongquan]

Puzzle is just... make-work gameplay in RPG. More often than not we would check Net answer rather than puzzling our way through the so-called puzzles~

RPG is roleplaying games. The fact that it has P character doesnt mean it need puzzle~

 

[Butter]

Puzzles should be optional if they're included, since not everyone has patience or intelligence to solve them.

It would be a shame if players were required to not be stupid in order to win.

 

[Arbiter]

Puzzles are not happening in mainstream games in $CURRENT_YEAR as they fell victim to streamlining decades ago. I fondly remember the Dark Forces/Jedi Knight series. The first game in the series was known for combining FPS with puzzles. With each subsequent game the puzzles got simpler. By the time of Jedi Academy they evolved into a Force sense power that would simply highlight objects of interest required to solve "puzzles".

Given the fact that most contemporary RPGs are action games in disguise, puzzles are unlikely to happen or they are extremely simple like the wheel in Skyrim.

Even in classic RPGs puzzles are rare outside of dungeon clawler genre. I do not recall any interesting puzzles in golden era games like Fallout, PST or BG.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Example of a typical rpg ""puzzle"" from a game that released very recently:

What's up with the puzzle in the first dungeon with four colourful buttons?

Is there any hint to the solution in the game?

What's the solution?

Spoiler

There are 4 paintings that are the same colors in one of the first rooms.

Hope you were scrolling all the way in and paying extra attention to every wall in the dungeon, bro.

Goes right back to my earlier post. Only one way to solve it, can't bash the door, completely arbitrary rules that have no relation to the game or its setting. What is the in-universe story behind someone making a puzzle like that? Why would someone do that?


Unless the characters are aware it's a puzzle(and therefore a game within a game) puzzles are fucking silly. They make no sense.

 

[Lurker47]

A problem you have with more abstract "puzzles" (doesn't have to be a puzzle) is that good solutions are often missing because of time constraints (or the devs being dumb.) See: you being unable to report Iguana Bob to the cops in Fallout. You'd think this would be a thing of the past in the age of hotfixes but I've never heard of a game hotfixing to add a solution (this is your easy in to tell me about an example that is overwhelmingly obvious to you.)

 

[Machocruz]

Example of a typical rpg ""puzzle"" from a game that released very recently:

What's up with the puzzle in the first dungeon with four colourful buttons?

Is there any hint to the solution in the game?

What's the solution?

Spoiler

There are 4 paintings that are the same colors in one of the first rooms.

Hope you were scrolling all the way in and paying extra attention to every wall in the dungeon, bro.

Goes right back to my earlier post. Only one way to solve it, can't bash the door, completely arbitrary rules that have no relation to the game or its setting. What is the in-universe story behind someone making a puzzle like that? Why would someone do that?


Unless the characters are aware it's a puzzle(and therefore a game within a game) puzzles are fucking silly. They make no sense.

One of my answers to "What Is A RPG" (because a what question is not meant to explain everything and can have numerous answers) has always been "a game of group problem solving." Moreso applies to actual RPGs, but problem solving is still a vital element in most single player/single character vidyas I enjoy. Puzzles though, can take or leave.

 

[Cunt Dickula!?]

Dunno but i really love those scavenger hunt puzzles like chromanin one in Gothic 1 or "Waldensians" in Kingdom Come Deliverance.
Every open world game should have some similar puzzle imo.