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Card-Based Marvel's Midnight Suns - Marvel universe card-based tactical RPG from Firaxis

Jason Liang

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Watched the extended trailer.

... the card system seems highly unnecessary.

Also, there's been a ton of Marvel video games. None of the "first time in a Marvel game" claims are true.

"Marvel turn-based RPG where you customize your hero to fight alongside two other superheroes like Nico and Magik." Hm. Sounds like

 
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Generic-Giant-Spider

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We've come to the point where one of the ways to sell a game is to mention "take a stroll in the woods with Iron Man." lmao
 
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The game doesn't even seem to have fucking movement on the grid.
They've been almost purposefully vague with showing this explicitly, but every single bit of action in the trailer was accomplished with static heroes targeting an enemy with an ability card.

Looking at the UI closely, there's Card Plays, Moves, Redraws (?) and Items.

So I guess there's movement in there that isn't part of an ability, sorry, card effect.

I hadn't really thought of there being no movement. When I first looked at it I just figured they weren't using a grid system and instead were doing something like Temple of Elemental Evil (which would be cool with me) and I was just not seeing how moment was done. But now I'm thinking they're doing some card based take on Chrono Trigger combat and if you do move it's based on where your attack leaves you.



The stuff about doing stuff with the heroes also makes me think of Persona's Social Link system.

Given how much it kind of seems they're drawing on JRPGs for this, (and that's not necessarily a bad thing, at the moment I've been wishing that new Disciples game had done that) it looking like total shit on a presentational level is just kind of funny and baffling. I mean this going realistic looking as opposed some comic bookish stylized style was a bad idea given what they landed on, but also stuff like the camera placement during combat looks pretty bad too.
 
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Morpheus Kitami

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Date Sim angle
Relationship <> romantic relationship. Still not the best mechanic in mind for this type of game tho.

What Marvel Heroes even are there that could work as a player character love interest that aren't C listers or below? All the big names are in their late 30s/40s and/or have a designated love interest?
Does it really matter? The only things that are consistent in the Marvel universe are Uncle Ben being dead and Tony Stark being an alcoholic.
I disagree. Licensed characters telling the player they're cool is very much something people like. Lots of really old PC games (especially for younger audiences) went as far as to make the player at the screen themselves so they could be congratulated directly.

That shit is fucking blows. If I'm buying an X-Men game I want to be the X-Men, I don't just want to be my own OC X-Man character who is told they're awesome by the official X-Men. You can have that shit in there if you also get to use the license characters, but just being your own original character in a game with a license like that is really dumb. The multiverse being a huge part of both Marvel and DC also gives any developer an easy explanation as to why you're seeing a bunch of the same character running around in any multiplayer games if that's what they're doing.

If I'm playing a Marvel or DC game, I'd rather be creating my own version of some known character than creating my own original character.
I get what you're saying, since that's just what, well, anyone playing a superhero game ever wanted. Spider-Man: Web of Shadows tried to do that, but it was limited, your options boiled down to being a dick or being typical Spider-Man. Frankly, its a shame no one ever expanded on that concept, but I guess Marvel or DC don't want the characters that actually sell to do something like that...these days. But there is some valid point to the idea of making a game about an OC. Its not like teams like the X-Men, or the Avengers haven't had new hip young people put in. Basically every mutant has been in the X-Men in some form or another, and half the Marvel Universe is an Avenger. You just need the cast to treat the player like he is, fresh meat about to enter the slaughterhouse. Not that that's going to happen these days, or even in this game.
 

JamesDixon

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Wow they not only made a TCG, but they also removed butt shapes from all the characters. The legs attach directly to the spine as the butt is completely flat. They completely degendered everyone with the only hints being facial hair and bras. Hard pass on SJW Marvel.
 

deuxhero

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Watched the trailer again. Literally 4 face options and can't even say male/female anymore.

Date Sim angle
Relationship <> romantic relationship. Still not the best mechanic in mind for this type of game tho.

What Marvel Heroes even are there that could work as a player character love interest that aren't C listers or below? All the big names are in their late 30s/40s and/or have a designated love interest?
Does it really matter? The only things that are consistent in the Marvel universe are Uncle Ben being dead and Tony Stark being an alcoholic.

There's also references to Hank having slapped Janet (even though it happened a grand total of once when he had far more serious problems and Janet kind deserved it).
 
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Date Sim angle
Relationship <> romantic relationship. Still not the best mechanic in mind for this type of game tho.

What Marvel Heroes even are there that could work as a player character love interest that aren't C listers or below? All the big names are in their late 30s/40s and/or have a designated love interest?
Does it really matter? The only things that are consistent in the Marvel universe are Uncle Ben being dead and Tony Stark being an alcoholic.
I disagree. Licensed characters telling the player they're cool is very much something people like. Lots of really old PC games (especially for younger audiences) went as far as to make the player at the screen themselves so they could be congratulated directly.

That shit is fucking blows. If I'm buying an X-Men game I want to be the X-Men, I don't just want to be my own OC X-Man character who is told they're awesome by the official X-Men. You can have that shit in there if you also get to use the license characters, but just being your own original character in a game with a license like that is really dumb. The multiverse being a huge part of both Marvel and DC also gives any developer an easy explanation as to why you're seeing a bunch of the same character running around in any multiplayer games if that's what they're doing.

If I'm playing a Marvel or DC game, I'd rather be creating my own version of some known character than creating my own original character.
I get what you're saying, since that's just what, well, anyone playing a superhero game ever wanted. Spider-Man: Web of Shadows tried to do that, but it was limited, your options boiled down to being a dick or being typical Spider-Man. Frankly, its a shame no one ever expanded on that concept, but I guess Marvel or DC don't want the characters that actually sell to do something like that...these days. But there is some valid point to the idea of making a game about an OC. Its not like teams like the X-Men, or the Avengers haven't had new hip young people put in. Basically every mutant has been in the X-Men in some form or another, and half the Marvel Universe is an Avenger. You just need the cast to treat the player like he is, fresh meat about to enter the slaughterhouse. Not that that's going to happen these days, or even in this game.

That Injustice 2 fighting game let you customize character moves and their appearance. I think a lot of that stuff may come down more to the developers than the comic publishers. Like Marvel and DC may be picky about what the characters do, (if I remember right someone at Marvel was very weird about what Doctor Strange could do in Marvel vs Capcom 3) but I'm not sure they're so picky to disallow customization within the perimeters of the character. And I can't believe either are all that picky when it comes to the appearance of the characters. I mean Marvel allowed Crystal Dymamics to create their own terrible looks for the characters in that Marvel's Avengers game; likewise Marvel Ultimate Alliance 3, Marvel vs Capcom: Infinite, and this game all have new original costumes designed specifically for the games. And then there's iOS stuff that'll have all kinds of weird versions of characters.

My thing is if you're making a superhero video game, and you're whole thing is you're having the player just using some original character or characters they make themselves, then shelling out the money to get something like the Marvel or DC license just seems like a waste of money and a waste of the license. That's a "if it's only you using OC thing" though. What this game is doing is ok, there's a original character, but you're also getting to use established characters. But I wouldn't want an X-Men game that's like jumping off Giant Size X-Men, but instead of the new recurits being Wolverine, Storm, and Nightcrawler they're just seven characters I create myself...may as well just be taking what you like and doing something original at that point. I mean at that point the license is probably just acting more as baggage and a box you're fit into than anything else. Take something like X-COM: UFO Defense/UFO: Enemy Unknown, it's based that '70s UFO show, but it's not an official UFO video game.

These types of license games are always going to inherently be a type of fan service game, like it may also be a really good game, (abstractly, not this one specifically) but once the license is placed on top of it it's also going to be about using that license. With something like D&D using specific characters doesn't really matter, because the license is about a rule set and a general fantasy setting with monsters; but with Marvel and DC it's about the characters and the stuff they do.
 

deuxhero

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At the very least, X-Men would be a bad example. There's definitely an appeal about first person exploration of the actual curriculum of Xavier's School for Gifted Youngsters. Most/All the player's allies would have to be existing characters for it to work though.
 

ColCol

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Funny thing, it seems from the like/hate ration on youtube, that casual comic/movies fans are hating the game for being turn based, but then Firaxis are also losing the xcom fans they could have had if they kept to that style of game. So they lost like all best possible audiences. Good job.
 

Cyberarmy

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Another fucking card game ...

aa0.png
 

S.H.O.D.A.N.

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But now I'm thinking they're doing some card based take on Chrono Trigger combat and if you do move it's based on where your attack leaves you.

That was my first impression - you play Iconic Wolverine Leap card, and an alcoholic grandpa in yellow spandex does a Liefeld. It might still be card based movement, if the Moves tab is just another hand you can play cards from.

I'm guessing movement is radius based, instead of being on a grid.
 

Zboj Lamignat

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There's no disappointment for me to be had in this game and if people finally stop seeing nu-firaxis as the no1 PC strategy/tactics developer that needs to be copied after it gets released then I count it as a win.
 
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Funny thing, it seems from the like/hate ration on youtube, that casual comic/movies fans are hating the game for being turn based, but then Firaxis are also losing the xcom fans they could have had if they kept to that style of game. So they lost like all best possible audiences. Good job.

I didn't look through the comments much, but I didn't really see what you're talking about on there. The only nagatives I was seeing brought up in the comment section was about it being a card game. Other than that, there was a comment I saw on the IGN video, which I think is the most viewed of them, saying it should be action because turn based combat doesn't make any sense for Marvel characters. I was however seeing lots of comments from people about how they're an XCOM fan and can't wait for this; although I'm sure they think this will be something like XCOM, if even a card game take, but based on that footage I'm not seeing that happening. Now there are almost as many dislikes as likes, and I could definitely guess as to why that could be given there are a few of them, but 99% of the nagative comments just seemed to be about it being a card game and worrying 2K would do a bunch of microtransactions shit with cards.

The card system thing seems like a very odd slapped on choice to me. Like it seems they're doing their take on a JRPG, at least as far as I can make out from the footage, but then they're also doing it as card game. I guess it shouldn't be too surprising given the whole board game feel of their XCOM games, but this is really running with it and it is surprising.

Maybe most surprising is nobody seemed to be shitting on how this shit looks in the comment section. Game is fucking ugly. It looks like generic looking video game despite having Marvel characters. Also the more I think about this probably being some card based take on Chrono Trigger the more I can't help but notice Firaxis seemingly has no fucking clue where to put the camera, its weird camera placement makes it look older than games like Final Fantasy 13 and Resinance of Fate that came out over ten years ago because this seems like it's something that's still figuring out what to do with this newfangled 3D thing during combat encounters.
 
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Lacrymas

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Oh, it's a card game. I didn't expect that. Unlike some people, I like card games and will be keeping an eye on this.
 

Jason Liang

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I mean, even if this were a reskin of Card Hunter, Card Hunter got tiresome after the first 10 hours, and there's no sign that the Firaxis version will be better than Card Hunter.

ss_9df6b58227332317e13a24671764a38a7868583a.600x338.jpg
 

markec

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I had no interest in this game until the new trailers.

Now I'm excited for this as it looks to be a hilarious trainwreck in making.
 

Mefi

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Thanks for the Trials of Fire recommendation, going to pick that up over the weekend to see what I've missed out on. Review has sold me on giving it a try at least.

Been fascinating watching the reaction to this game. There was an eerily similar game in development, so far as the card system seems to work in it, by a much smaller dev team not so long back. Reaction on their very early testing was mixed, to put it politely, both for not meeting players' expectations and also for things like the shared pool of cards often leaving even a pared down squad size on pinched maps reduced to just one or two of its members being able to act. Wonder whether this one can overcome some of that, or ColCol's point may hold true beyond Youtube videos.
 

Morpheus Kitami

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That Injustice 2 fighting game let you customize character moves and their appearance. I think a lot of that stuff may come down more to the developers than the comic publishers. Like Marvel and DC may be picky about what the characters do, (if I remember right someone at Marvel was very weird about what Doctor Strange could do in Marvel vs Capcom 3) but I'm not sure they're so picky to disallow customization within the perimeters of the character. And I can't believe either are all that picky when it comes to the appearance of the characters. I mean Marvel allowed Crystal Dymamics to create their own terrible looks for the characters in that Marvel's Avengers game; likewise Marvel Ultimate Alliance 3, Marvel vs Capcom: Infinite, and this game all have new original costumes designed specifically for the games. And then there's iOS stuff that'll have all kinds of weird versions of characters.
I was talking more about having a morality system in a superhero game more than customizing a character. I know that DC wanted Mortal Kombat Vs DC toned down for obvious reasons, but I think they've had other weird rules about content, whenever they have power over that. Although on your point, aren't most of the weird versions of characters just the character from alternate continuity? Like they include Spider-Man Noir, or Spider-Man 2099.
My thing is if you're making a superhero video game, and you're whole thing is you're having the player just using some original character or characters they make themselves, then shelling out the money to get something like the Marvel or DC license just seems like a waste of money and a waste of the license. That's a "if it's only you using OC thing" though. What this game is doing is ok, there's a original character, but you're also getting to use established characters. But I wouldn't want an X-Men game that's like jumping off Giant Size X-Men, but instead of the new recurits being Wolverine, Storm, and Nightcrawler they're just seven characters I create myself...may as well just be taking what you like and doing something original at that point. I mean at that point the license is probably just acting more as baggage and a box you're fit into than anything else. Take something like X-COM: UFO Defense/UFO: Enemy Unknown, it's based that '70s UFO show, but it's not an official UFO video game.
I don't know, the concept of a player being a new stupid superhero in a world full of superheroes could only work if the characters are ones the player actually knows. I feel like every "original" superhero work tends to fall into just making do not steals of licensed characters. Its like a bootleg toyset at times. Oh, no, the not Justice League and not Iron Man are dead, its up to you to save humanity, not Superboy. Nobody is fooled, it just feels cheap. It takes a very rare touch to do that in a way that works. Freedom Force was the only game to do that well. You could say that's not Captain America and that's not Iron Man, but that's just true in a broad sense.
Though I should be clear, I mean a solo action game or RPG where the player is an OC. Having the player make an entire OC team strikes me as a bit much, or even allowing the player to make an OC, and then sticking him with a team of developer OCs. Just have the player make an OC and then let him loose in New York, or Gotham or Metropolis. Full Prototype-style, the player can be a good guy or a bad guy. Have some generic plot where some criminal mastermind is going to take over the city or dump Joker gas in the water supply. Have the actual Marvel characters, whenever you encounter them, act like they actually should. Go full '90s anti-hero and try to gun down criminals in a crowded street, and Spider-Man should pop up, make quips and try to stop you. Maybe you join the bad guy, but you throw a busload of tourists at Captain Marvel, and they all die. That's bad for the bad guy's image, and he doesn't like that very much. I guess you could do that attached to an already existing superhero, but they have all these pesky relationships that we're supposed to remember even if they change every 10 years. An OC is a blank slate, and used well it could work well. I mean it won't, because something like that would take too much effort for not enough reward.
 

Wirdschowerdn

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https://wccftech.com/midnight-suns-...ours-heroes-might-get-injured-during-battles/

Midnight Suns Is Expected to Last 40-60 Hours; Heroes Might Get Injured During Battles
By Alessio Palumbo
Sep 7, 2021 12:38 EDT
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Firaxis revealed some additional details on Marvel's Midnight Suns in a new interview published by Malaysian website GamerBraves. First of all, unlike XCOM, this game won't have a time limit according to Creative Director Jake Solomon. It does have an estimated playtime of 40 to 60 hours, though.

The time limit in XCOM was something that made sense both narratively and mechanics-wise. Marvel’s Midnight Suns is a different type of game and thus has a different set of design goals and mechanics. Depending on the player, Marvel’s Midnight Suns will take about 40 to 60 hours to play through.

Solomon also described Midnight Suns as something of the opposite to XCOM when it comes to combat, as the random factor is shifted from XCOM's infamous chance to hit (not a thing here) to the card-like mechanics that will offer different abilities to your Midnight Suns heroes depending on the draw.

But there is another trait that unites XCOM and Midnight Suns: the potential for character injury. In XCOM, your characters can famously suffer permadeath, but they can also simply be out of commission for some time, forcing you to rotate between the full roster. In Midnight Suns, injured heroes may still join the next battle, but they'll be debuffed in various ways, making it convenient to just choose a healthy replacement instead.

Throughout the game, you’re going to need resources when it comes to upgrading your abilities, facilities in the Abbey, and more. Missions offer specific types of rewards – you’ll need credits for improving the Forge, so you should find a mission that offers credits as an award. Each mission has a required hero that you need to take, so this is one way we encourage players to play at least a little bit with each hero. Also, the more you take a certain hero into combat, the more you put them at risk where they take too much damage and get Injured. Heroes that are Injured can still be used in combat, but they’ll have some type of debuff – they might start a fight with less total health, for example. Also – in the Abbey, there’s times where the heroes themselves will ask you to take them into battle and you’ll get rewarded if you do so.

Midnight Suns launches in March 2022 for PC, Nintendo Switch, PlayStation 4, PlayStation 5, Xbox One, and Xbox Series X/S.
 

Infinitron

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It's time for the ferocious grudge match! The Hunter and Wolverine are teaming up against Sabretooth in our first ever gameplay stream of Marvel's Midnight Suns.

In one corner, we've got the Hunter and Wolverine fighting to save the world. Wolverine's razor-sharp claws, regenerating health, and ability to taunt enemies into focusing on him make him well-suited to fighting on the front line. Tilting the odds in Wolverine's favor on this occasion will be members of the Firaxis development team and the Hunter, Marvel's Midnight Suns' protagonist and the first customizable original hero in the Marvel Universe. The Hunter has a previous lifetime of training and experience to draw on and can fill a number of different combat roles by focusing on dealing damage, supporting allies, controlling enemies, mitigating incoming damage, or any combination thereof.

In the other corner is Wolverine's age-old nemesis Sabretooth, another mutant with a superpowered healing factor and the animalistic instincts and strength of a fearsome predator. Even in a two-on-one battle, Sabretooth should prove to be a fierce opponent.

Who will stand victorious?

Marvel's Midnight Suns arrives March 2022.
 

Lacrymas

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I watched a bit and it seems somehow basic compared to hits like Trials of Fire and Gloomhaven. The lack of a grid gives me anxiety. The JRPG animations and short cutscenes for every card have to go. Movement not being part of the cards is a very bad idea. The console UI and the nonsensical control scheme are plain to see. It says it's footage captured from a PC, but it doesn't play like it. I can't even imagine how it's controlled. It's obviously made for consoles first.
 
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Those fucking annoying dumb cutesy pie subtitles on character intros "Sabertooth - Second Best At What He Does" must mean they've got some fuckin' dumb hack Marvel Comics writer working on this too.

I watched a bit and it seems somehow basic compared to hits like Trials of Fire and Gloomhaven. The lack of a grid gives me anxiety. The JRPG animations and short cutscenes for every card have to go. Movement not being part of the cards is a very bad idea. The console UI and the nonsensical control scheme are plain to see. It says it's footage captured from a PC, but it doesn't play like it. I can't even imagine how it's controlled. It's obviously made for consoles first.

Movement is part of the cards and basic attacks. You've got two kinds of movement from the look of it it. The first is movement tied to attacks, that leaves you in the place you moved to, to attack; this uses your Heroism meter, a card, or both from the look of it. The other is just normal movement that isn't tied to an attack that uses a movement point. I guess movement points are pretty limited, it sounds like they're around a third to a fifth of the way through the game during that Sabretooth encounter and they've only got one per turn.

Bitching about the UI as "Console UI" just seems fucking dumb. Outside of the controller buttons being there, which like XCOM I'd assume won't be the same on PC if you're not using a controller, it just seems like a pretty normal UI layout. Nothing about it seems specifically designed for consoles.
 

Psycroptic

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That Enter Sandman cover was rather metaphorical. Take the essence of something great (while ignoring the better choices in the catalog) and then reduce what you have to a beige nothingness. Present it to the audience and pretend it's something wonderful and new.

And do they use that shaved side of the head unironically? I mean, they have to know that it has ceased to be "edgy", if it ever was.
 

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