Pathfinder Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous Pre-DLC Thread [GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Gangrelrumbler]

I'm not sure Owlcat knows what Core rules really mean.

I kind of agree with reviewer on this one.

Imagine if one night your DM said OK to spice things up the main Deity of this campaign (lets call him, say, Savescummera) has promised to resurrect anyone who fights in his name. In exchange he asks you to fight with exceptional cunning and bravery due to the particularly devious challenges presented by his foes.

Obv there will be stat adjustments in that setting. Is that so wrong?

It's not Owlcat's setting. It's Paizo's setting.

The homo companions are 100% Owlcat.

Sosiel, Lann, Wendulag, Arueshalae and Seelah are Pazzio's.

 

[Robber Baron]

You DID keep the spiky gang alive through the whole siege, zero rests, zero casualties and made Regill proud right?

Spoiler

 

[Seigneur Locklear]

I'm too lazy to dig up the thread but I was thinking ; what was actually the result of Avellone's involvement in this game? Did they give him like 2-3 paragraphs to write just so they can stamp his name on the product and call it a day?

 

[Fedora Master]

I'm not sure Owlcat knows what Core rules really mean.

I kind of agree with reviewer on this one.

Imagine if one night your DM said OK to spice things up the main Deity of this campaign (lets call him, say, Savescummera) has promised to resurrect anyone who fights in his name. In exchange he asks you to fight with exceptional cunning and bravery due to the particularly devious challenges presented by his foes.

Obv there will be stat adjustments in that setting. Is that so wrong?

It's not Owlcat's setting. It's Paizo's setting.

The homo companions are 100% Owlcat.

Sosiel, Lann, Wendulag, Arueshalae and Seelah are Pazzio's.

What the hell? Seelah is the Iconic character for paladins but the rest I've never heard of.

 

[Reinhardt]

the softest gay black man ever born

Who actually psycho permanently looking for fights.

 

[Fedora Master]

the softest gay black man ever born

Who actually psycho permanently looking for fights.

So he's an insecure homosexual black man with poor impulse control you say...

 

[Mortmal]

Meredoth What summons did you have success with when you went necromancer?

Is animate dead good if you can use meta magic and extend it on them? I don’t know we’ll they would work against potential demons encounters and demons at this point in the game (CH2).

Create Undead is a amazing spell. Summon monster too is great. Items which allwo monster summoning too. I have a ring which allows em to 3x per day, summon two CR 14 minotaur. As for animate dead, it is great in low level but worthless in high level. In fact, persistent spells like domain of the hungry flesh are the best "lich spells"

Domain of hungry flesh doesnt work at the end either , nor the rifts or any control spell. I dont think summons will be any good as the stats of demons are absurdly overtuned .End Game is made for build that crit 3000 like the trickster.

 

[Gangrelrumbler]

I'm not sure Owlcat knows what Core rules really mean.

I kind of agree with reviewer on this one.

Imagine if one night your DM said OK to spice things up the main Deity of this campaign (lets call him, say, Savescummera) has promised to resurrect anyone who fights in his name. In exchange he asks you to fight with exceptional cunning and bravery due to the particularly devious challenges presented by his foes.

Obv there will be stat adjustments in that setting. Is that so wrong?

It's not Owlcat's setting. It's Paizo's setting.

The homo companions are 100% Owlcat.

Sosiel, Lann, Wendulag, Arueshalae and Seelah are Pazzio's.

What the hell? Seelah is the Iconic character for paladins but the rest I've never heard of.

I was skimming through the original adventure path, they're there. Sosiel seems to be the town cleric. Arueshalae even got on the cover of the fourth book:

 

[Shadenuat]

What makes this convo so damn weird - is you going on that we shouldn't discuss it here and implying somehow that we poor westerners want Russia to "save" us - while the game in question being Russian made but still jammed with SJW shit. What is going on here?

It's your own shit.

It's Paizo module and characters, made by license from Paizo. You're looking into the mirror of your current PNP player meta. deuxhero (I think) posted the complete breakdown of how bad the PnP module is right when game was announced. He even spoiled Chapter 5.

 

[Fedora Master]

God PF art is bad.

 

[Alienman]

What makes this convo so damn weird - is you going on that we shouldn't discuss it here and implying somehow that we poor westerners want Russia to "save" us - while the game in question being Russian made but still jammed with SJW shit. What is going on here?

It's your own shit.

It's Paizo module and characters, made by license from Paizo. You're looking into the mirror of your current PNP player meta. deuxhero posted the complete breakdown of how bad the PnP module is right when game was announced. He even spoiled Chapter 5.

Sure, okay, then why do the glorious and oh so based Russians play it? I read an interview the reason the dev teamed picked it because they enjoyed playing the tabletop version, so they knew about all the poz before they started to make it a PC game, which makes me think they enjoy the poz.

 

[Shadenuat]

Sure, okay, then why do the glorious and oh so based Russians play it?

Because somehow, it's still a fucking fun and blast to play, regardless of pozz. And u can have vengeance on anyone u don't like (I think, not sure about dumb paladin goddess and such).

I read an interview the reason the dev teamed picked it because they enjoyed playing the tabletop version

eh, no idea what they played in tabletop. But way pnp goes they might as well did everything wrong, with whole party going backwards into incorrect direction and Russian DM just making shit up.

what exactly u expect them to say about their licensed product, that it's horrible and Paizos are retardos?

 

[gurugeorge]

To defend that side, that's not what the ire is about (at least not from most of the people who are annoyed about it here, I think). The ire is about the poz in this game being just another tiresome symptom of a general systematic malaise in culture and society.

If (as a reasonable, liberal person) you're still thinking of this in terms of the humanistic defense of statistically abnormal people having a right to be who they are and not be beaten up, etc., then that's the way the Owlcat people are thinking of it too. And that's a rationally defensible position that reasonable people can argue about.

But that's not the way the cultural trend in the West has gone. It's gone way beyond that point. The cultural trend is towards the normalization (holding up as an ideal) of the statistically abnormal and the marginalization (public denigration and humiliation) of the statistically normal. And the saturation of entertainment product with poz is now part of that, it's no longer part of a trend towards occasional humanistic reminders (as it was, say, back in the 80s or 90s).

When people talk about "slippery slope" arguments, by now it should be obvious that the "slippery slope" curmudgeons in the 50s and 60s were quite correct: what started as a humanistic defense has become the normalization of degeneracy.

And that's deliberate, it's not an accident - but expostulating on that would be going too far afield for now. At any rate, it's an example of the rhetorical tactic of "Motte & Bailey" - you have two versions of a position with the same name, one crazy that normal people wouldn't agree with, one reasonable that reasonable people can argue about. When challenged on the crazy position, the ideologue retreats to the defensible position - "What, you don't like trannies dressed like Satan teaching your kids, do you want to kill all gay people or something?"

While most of what you said is true to a certain extent, you have no idea how sick and tired I am of the "OMG SJW AGENDA IN MUH VIDEOGAMES" crowd that spends 95% of their time in the poltiics forums or GD, and starts invading every single fucking gaming thread that isn't a straightup shooter but has a narrative focus. There will be gay couples in videogames that have, well, couples. A game that portrays governments or politics will, inevitably, discuss one side or the other. That's not an SJW agenda, thats just how narratively driven games work, and they always have. There might be games out there that go far beyond what these types of games have done for decades, and those games do deserve some ridicule for it. But there's a point where its just pointless whining that's not even accurate anymore.

There is nothing in WotR right now, that makes me think the game is trying to push some liberal agenda. Yeah, there's a fairly obvious nod towards it in the first 2 hours of the game. And then it's gone. Despite that, we have the same shitposters who whine about it in every gaming thread imaginable complaining about it in here as well, even though the majority of the game has none of that kind of content. If anything, it goes the other way. It's much darker than Kingmaker, in my opinion, and the demon-centric theme allows them to explore some much more extreme territories than wouldn't have been possible in a different setting. It's a game where during an entire chapter, the [Lawful] choice is to support slavery.

We complain about Game Journos only playing the first 4 hours of the game and judging it based on that, while the same anti-liberal shitposter crowd occasionally leaves their pol-forum hive and does the exact same thing. "Saw lesbian couple, refunded game". And it happens in every single fucking thread. Some games deserve this kind of criticism. But dear god it's fucking annoying to read the same drivel 20 times a day, usually from the same ~10people as well, especially in a game that really doesn't push the SJW agenda all that much.

So really, how much of what you wrote about actually pertains to the game that is being discussed in this thread? I agree with almost everything you said, and yet I fail to see any relevance whatsoever to this game, beyond "theres a lesbian couple, and one of the girls used to have a dick". It's minor, it's a one-time thing, it's not "in your face" but very low-key, it's not a major plot point. So I'll ask again, in what way does this negatively affect the enjoyment of the game? The solution to the issues you mentioned aren't to completely remove all references to this kind of agenda from games, or expect that to happen. It's not about supporting devs who go full-on against it, like Vavra, but about supporting Devs who simply try to be neutral about it. WotR is one such game, based on the ~140hours or so I played of it so far. The game has many issues, but being "pozzed" ain't one of them, unless your view of the game is really based on the first 2 hours of it. And then you're no better than a typical game journo.

I've defended the game's writing several times, and I agree that it isn't so terribly serious about the woke agenda and is honestly more about story and character development. Which is nice. The problem isn't really that the game in and of itself is such a bad example - it's not really, because it's not pure preaching, pure activism that's empty of story/character content, which is where things are headed now in the West (consider the acres of utterly vacuous product on Netflix today that's just relentless anti-White, anti-White male, anti-Western activism thinly disguised as entertainment). The problem is that it's just another drip in a constant drip - drip - drip - plus as it is, it shores up the "Motte" side of the argument (precisely because it's more of a reasonable, humanist take on the issues).

In the race to Hell, Owlcat (slavs generally now) are in the middle to rear of the pack, they're not the leading edge; but they're not the saviours of sanity that people thought a few years ago (which is what I think shadenaut was referring to). They're cucked too, just less so because of the time lag as a result of Communism.

But it does lead to the obvious question: at what point do we stop supporting games that promote the woke agenda, even if tacitly or as de rigeur window-dressing (sometimes perhaps because they have to, otherwise they wouldn't get made and published at all)? It's something I've wrestled with myself. There's the attitude that you'll squeeze as much fun out of something pozzed as you can because after all it might be well-made in other respects (like this game). But how far will you go with that? At what point am I going to give up the attitude of squeezing fun out of something that's morally objectionable but might otherwise be well made in places?

I don't know, there's no easy answer to it. The morally strict answer just leads to giving up the hobby, giving up on any sort of modern entertainment product altogether. If I were a younger man I might actually do that, but for me at my age it makes no difference, as my powers are failing and I can't do anything about it anyway. If someone wants to accuse me of fiddling while Rome burns for that, fine.

 

[Gangrelrumbler]

What makes this convo so damn weird - is you going on that we shouldn't discuss it here and implying somehow that we poor westerners want Russia to "save" us - while the game in question being Russian made but still jammed with SJW shit. What is going on here?

It's your own shit.

It's Paizo module and characters, made by license from Paizo. You're looking into the mirror of your current PNP player meta. deuxhero posted the complete breakdown of how bad the PnP module is right when game was announced. He even spoiled Chapter 5.

Sure, okay, then why do the glorious and oh so based Russians play it? I read an interview the reason the dev teamed picked it because they enjoyed playing the tabletop version, so they knew about all the poz before they started to make it a PC game, which makes me think they enjoy the poz.

Don't want to defend pozzed Russians since Daeran is 100% their baby but they'd say that even if they've never heard about the module before acquiring the license.

 

[Orud]

Sure, okay, then why do the glorious and oh so based Russians play it? I read an interview the reason the dev teamed picked it because they enjoyed playing the tabletop version, so they knew about all the poz before they started to make it a PC game, which makes me think they enjoy the poz.

Not Russian, but 3.5e is just such a good system compared to other contemporary stuff like 4e. Pathfinder was at a time more popular than D&D, that's how hard 4e cratered. Also, due to the way the game works you can quickly just edit any pieces you don't like out of your story. Not that it mattered to the groups I played it with, we just did our own stories instead of the canon stuff.

 

[The_Mask]

Can I just say that playing my way towards Lichdom has made me appreciate Jaethal a LOT more?

Like... I understand that priestess' angle now. Jaethal is fucking amazing.

 

[Alienman]

what exactly u expect them to say about their licensed product, that it's horrible and Paizos are retardos?

Well, they picked it because they liked it. They could have picked anything else, or made their own game/setting.

 

[Shadenuat]

Well, they picked it because they liked it. They could have picked anything else, or made their own game/setting.

Pathfinder is 2d biggest grognard thing after D&D. It's a completely smart move. If I could pick up Pathfinder and also have MCA run around blabbling how he luves Pathfinder, I'd do it, and I would add Anita Sarkisian herself into module.

...but then in final chapter i'd make her a final boss you need to kill.

to gib u real example of RU game production. I have fren who is coder, his bro is coder. bro + team are working on Seriusly Serius sports car management sim game. Everything is perfect, and then their based publisher says: it's all cool,
but u now what would make this game sell more?
some female drivers.

bro in tears.
and then they add some female drivers.

but yes, I wait for them to definitely make their own thing. like, ima okay eating 3.5 TV Dinners every few years, but it's not like d20 is beyond homeruling and doing ur own thing.

 

[Gangrelrumbler]

They could have (...) made their own game/setting.

Considering the quality of the barony management and crusade minigame I'd prefer they didn't do that.

 

[ArchAngel]

It is hilarious how game still has bugs from Kingmaker like how Regil with Honorable judgement does weapon damage +2d6 vs chaotic creatures but also does bonus 1d6 on first hit in the round but also gets +2d6 more with that hit...

EDIT: and some new bugs like how Sickness infusion for Cruomancer activates before the spell you cast on enemy, giving them -2 to save vs that spell and even giving them Sickness if you don't pass their SR :D

 

[Seigneur Locklear]

I don't know, there's no easy answer to it.

Yeah there is, it's called piracy.

 

[smaug]

They could have (...) made their own game/setting.

Considering the quality of the barony management and crusade minigame I'd prefer they didn't do that.

Their dev team worked on HOMM5 and other good TB I think, no idea why they couldn’t replicate that type of quality

 

[Fedora Master]

It's not fair to compare Owlcat - Urban hipsters - to actual Russians. That'd be like saying all Americans are Californians.

But Owlcat would absolutely fit in with that crowd and they were like this even in the first game.

 

[Shadenuat]

Their dev team worked on HOMM5 and other good TB I think, no idea why they couldn’t replicate that type of quality

I highly doubt they have whole NIVAL there. Sure some people are there, but coders, artists? idk.

Obsidian has all the Interplay/Troika crowd atm at about same ratio (some lead designers, writers, coders). And they did not, for some reason, replicate Arcanum.

And let's be honest, merging 2 games like that is too difficult and just was a stupid fucking idea to begin with.

As for the writing, Owlcats were never good at it, but previous game had way smaller scope. In this one, fuck, idk what happened, it's like they had no editor whatsoever in production, ever.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

What makes this convo so damn weird - is you going on that we shouldn't discuss it here and implying somehow that we poor westerners want Russia to "save" us - while the game in question being Russian made but still jammed with SJW shit. What is going on here?

It's your own shit.

It's Paizo module and characters, made by license from Paizo. You're looking into the mirror of your current PNP player meta. deuxhero (I think) posted the complete breakdown of how bad the PnP module is right when game was announced. He even spoiled Chapter 5.

so they could have picked any other module or made their own story and they went with one of the worst available, huh? And they were forced to do it at gunpoint, you say?