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Arkane Deathloop - first-person action game from Arkane set on a time loop island

Trithne

Erudite
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Dec 3, 2008
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Do you actually need to figure anything out yourself as a puzzle or is everything really spelled out for you?

I watched a review and he said when you collect enough info to make the final loop, the game basically tells you exactly how to proceed and what to do in which order to kill all 8 visionaries


Eh.. does that mean there's only one valid solution and until then your just fapping around collecting mcguffin clues?
Do they even react to you on subsequent loops or grow more panicked as your loop gets closer and closer to it's end goal?

I doubt it. Otherwise why would their schedules remain the same.

Not really much of a spoiler, but putting it in one anyway, for Wenjie:
When you kill Wenjie for the first time (which is the last part of the game's incredibly long tutorial/onboarding), there's a note commenting that only Colt and Julianna seem to have this ability to remember information across loops.

I remember reading somewhere that NPC's will slightly adjust to your tactics if you constantly use the same approach - which I thought debunked this.. ??
I don't remember where I read that though.. so maybe it's complete bullshit.

I'm sure that the dynamic difficulty will do that, and if you really wanted to contextualise it in universe you could say that Julianna is giving everyone pointers, but that's more of a justification than anything that needs to be in the "lore".

The whole setup of what does and doesn't carry between loops is pretty arbitrary anyway and is basically just "whatever the plot and the player needs"
 

Zombra

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It was a major feature that was part of the marketing campaign, and it seems to be very disliked from what I've read.
Hmm, I stand corrected. I heard it mentioned a lot but it always seemed like a sidebar to me - but there it is, one of 4 headlines on the Steam page.

Doesn't sound like something I'd enjoy in the least in an Arkane-style game. They should have figured out a way to make it cooperative rather than competitive.
It's a cool idea on paper. In reality, PvP has to be rigorously tested and balanced before public release. Seems like <3sRichardSimmons figured out in 10 minutes that a single overpowered tactic makes it a boring waste of everyone's time.
 
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Well get ready to bust out your "cuck" ratings, because I'm starting to turn around on this game. The gameplay remains basic, the difficulty remains non-existent, and the VA and dialogue remain aggravating, but... I'm now in the midgame and I am consistently having fun. I've started to find some unique weapons that are pretty powerful and fun to use, and the plot is actually going somewhere much more interesting than initially promised. I do think turning off invasions and quest markers is mandatory for enjoyment. I'm highly suspicious that the PvP element was just tacked on in order for the project to get greenlit. It genuinely makes the game less fun to play, and it also just doesn't add anything! As far as I know, the only incentive to play the PvP mode is to unlock new skins for the main character (of an FPS!).

So maybe it's just the scotch (pretty good game to play while enjoying a nice pour -makes the writing and VA much more tolerable), but I'm definitely enjoying the game more as I get further into it. It's a shame that Arkane continues to Arkane and put their worst foot forward, but the mid-game does deliver a noticeably improved experience.
 

Ash

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guess to fix it they're gonna have to put a minimap blip that updates the stealth character's location every 20 seconds or something, or just show the general area he is in.
That or provide strong incentive to keep the stealth player moving.
Or box the area in with artificial walls during an invasion so there's only so many corners they can be a pussy in.
Maybe a subtle audio cue that gets louder when close by would be best. Idk what they have right now though. Surely they have something already in place that aids invaders tracking their mark?
 
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Also btw Deathloop seems firmly DOA, at least judging from Steam achievements.

The most recent main plot one I got was awarded at 8.5 hours played time (with probably ~2-3 hours of that afk) and I am apparently in the top 10%!
 

Trithne

Erudite
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Also btw Deathloop seems firmly DOA, at least judging from Steam achievements.

The most recent main plot one I got was awarded at 8.5 hours played time (with probably ~2-3 hours of that afk) and I am apparently in the top 10%!

n8sath5.png

I mean, that achievement is basically "Complete the Tutorial".

4J2XFDn.png

And this is practically "Start the Tutorial".

So either no-one knows how to walk up a beach, or the supposed mass stuttering that no-one in this thread seems to be able to corroborate is that bad.

-----

And I’m switching off the invasions. They’re amazingly unfun currently. Every Juliana just uses the same load out of blink+machete to one-shot backstab you, and you’re actively encouraged to just sit in a corner for five minutes until you spot the invader because otherwise you will almost certainly lose all your progress when they backstab you from out of nowhere.

I set it to Friends Only, although I'm pretty certain none of my Steam Friends have the game.
 

Belegarsson

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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
guess to fix it they're gonna have to put a minimap blip that updates the stealth character's location every 20 seconds or something, or just show the general area he is in.
That or provide strong incentive to keep the stealth player moving.
Or box the area in with artificial walls during an invasion so there's only so many corners they can be a pussy in.
Maybe a subtle audio cue that gets louder when close by would be best. Idk what they have right now though. Surely they have something already in place that aids invaders tracking their mark?
Had a debate like this last night and I'm not sure if I agree. While it's shitty that some players gonna just sit in a bush for 15 minutes, they are also forced to hack the satellite/beacon thingy to exit the hub, so Julianna can just camp the thing and wait.

I think the problem lies within the incentive for Colt players, kill her and you get a bunch of residuum, a slab, some trinkets, aka everything you get from normal play, nothing very special aside from reprise refill. Losing means you took unnecessary risk which costed the run, while Julianna player loses nothing when they lose, in fact, their Hunter rank still increases and unlock new gears for them.

It would be great if killing Julianna gives you a special temporary buff that lasts until you get back to safehouse, not sure what kind of effect to not make Colt too OP against already easy as piss AI, but surely there gotta be some reasons to fight back.
 

Ash

Arcane
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Messages
6,235
What about "silent" invasions? No indication an invasion has happened at all for the stealth player, but they get a one-time alert if Julianna has spotted them or is within 200m whichever comes first (Julianna gets this one too if they didn't spot), after which the real engagement begins.
...I should/will stop suggesting anything when I don't know the game's mechanics, or how good Colt is at running away and diversion to regain stealth after being spotted specifically.
 

Zombra

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I haven't seen an invasion yet, but it seems to me that the obvious solution is to nerf the shit out of Julianna. Since Colt has nothing substantial to gain and Julianna has nothing to lose, it's idiotic to make them evenly matched and expect Colt players to willingly participate.
 

kangaxx

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Also btw Deathloop seems firmly DOA, at least judging from Steam achievements.

The most recent main plot one I got was awarded at 8.5 hours played time (with probably ~2-3 hours of that afk) and I am apparently in the top 10%!

n8sath5.png

I mean, that achievement is basically "Complete the Tutorial".

4J2XFDn.png

And this is practically "Start the Tutorial".

So either no-one knows how to walk up a beach, or the supposed mass stuttering that no-one in this thread seems to be able to corroborate is that bad.

I'm sad to see this, because although I have little interest in this game I do rate Arkane pretty highly. I loved Prey and enjoyed the Dishonoreds/Arx. If they disappear because this game flops there's a big hole in the market for a studio that takes risks in the immersive sim area. Maybe they can all move to WolfEye or something.
 

Zombra

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Seems I stayed on a map too long, or maybe triggered an alarm or something without knowing it. When I started backtracking, more enemies had spawned in and they started ambushing me and taking me by surprise. You start to miss those healing potions lying around that are one use per loop. Barely survived and glad to see there is some challenge in the game after all.
 

Lutte

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If they disappear because this game flops there's a big hole in the market for a studio that takes risks in the immersive sim area.

It's Redfall the final nail in the coffin. Open world coop fps with fortnite aesthetics, there's nothing that tries as hard to get mainstream appeal in Arkane's catalogue as this, yet I'm fairly confident that this is going to be yet another flop just like all attempts Zenimax/Bethesda made at pushing the studios they own into diversifying into things they have no idea how to make (Rage 2, Youngblood, 76).
 

Siel

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glad to see there is some challenge in the game after all.
Apparently yeah. I read that the difficulty increases and the AI becomes better as you kill Visionaries.

I confirm this. The AI has a step up each time you kill one.
Also it's not bad AI as it simulates perfectly crack addicts with no military background who know they will not really die anyway. It's some easy but good AI. :lol:
 

Lutte

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"It's shit, all the other reviewers are bought off"

"7/10 Thumbs up"

Most likely just doesn't want to deal with the fallout that would come from a lower review score. It's extremely rare to rate anything below a 6 if it's not a broken piece of asset flipping unity shit because it tends to attract the attention of people who aren't among your viewership who post your link to a shill/brigading community who will continually spam your comment section, thumb down etc.

Sometimes you don't even need to give a game a bad score, you just need to say you didn't like it, there was an entire cottage industry of Doom Eternal spammers who had no life and spent their days harassing people who posted negative videos about doom eternal, the youtubers among them also kept making "reaction videos" where they film themselves watching the negative review and insulting the reviewer.

To be the lone 7/10 among a sea of 10/10 is already putting him at risk for that sort of harassment on youtube because there's quite the insane herd mentality whenever it involves gamer weenies feeling validated that their game is seen as 10/10 everywhere and they just can't stand it if you remove even one point out.
 

pizza_microwave

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Game's concept is too outlandish to sell to mainstream audience. Even now that we know what this game is about, I struggle to come up with a concise description that could've been used to lure new players. A first-person Hotline Miami with superpowers? A first-person Souls-like?

How come Kojima could sell Death Stranding with how outlandish the whole game was? Granted its main shtick was that the whole project was weird and obscure.

But the point still stands, with a good marketing team you can sell anything.
 

Siel

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Game's concept is too outlandish to sell to mainstream audience. Even now that we know what this game is about, I struggle to come up with a concise description that could've been used to lure new players. A first-person Hotline Miami with superpowers? A first-person Souls-like?

How come Kojima could sell Death Stranding with how outlandish the whole game was? Granted its main shtick was that the whole project was weird and obscure.
.

Is this a serious question?
 

Lutte

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How come Kojima could sell Death Stranding with how outlandish the whole game was? Granted its main shtick was that the whole project was weird and obscure.

But the point still stands, with a good marketing team you can sell anything.

Because Kojima is like a rock star in the video game industry and Arkane isn't.

You can sell toilet paper stamped in your name.. if your name already has value to begin with. Arkane is semi niche. Their best selling game was the first Dishonored. Dishonored 2 sold worse than that, and Prey sold about the same as Dis2 or possibly worse (I don't think we've got sales numbers). Dark Messiah is a cult classic but not a game that did well in its time. Almost nobody even among Arkane fans remember or have played Arx Fatalis.

Meanwhile Kojima is a very well known figure whose last series of games routinely hit the 5+ million games sold. The last MGS sold more than the entirety of Arkane's library combined.

So no matter how unique, strange, dumb or crappy Kojima goes, he has that many millions listening to him, shilling him on social media, web forums etc. He doesn't even have to make an effort to market something. When death stranding was announced, before we had any idea wtf was going on, websites were already filled with people creaming themselves at the thought of playing a game nobody knew anything about.
 

Zombra

An iron rock in the river of blood and evil
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Also it's not bad AI as it simulates perfectly crack addicts with no military background who know they will not really die anyway. It's some easy but good AI. :lol:
Seriously, this is true. This isn't supposed to be a bitterly demanding military sim, either in tone or in gameplay. There's an NPC conversation where they are joking around about shooting each other, and then one actually shoots the other like it's nothing, because it is nothing to them. Heavyweight commandos these are not, nor should they be. Not what the game is about, and not why it's fun.
 

thesheeep

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Not what the game is about, and not why it's fun.
Well, there is no fun because there is no challenge.
There is no challenge, because the AI is braindead.

Where exactly is the fun here?
Doing 1v1 PvP? Okay, maybe, but this is sold primarily as a SP game with some MP component (somewhat similar to Dark Souls in this regard with the "invasions").
And also bear in mind the price point, which is just awkwardly high for what is on offer.
 

LESS T_T

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Also btw Deathloop seems firmly DOA, at least judging from Steam achievements.

The most recent main plot one I got was awarded at 8.5 hours played time (with probably ~2-3 hours of that afk) and I am apparently in the top 10%!

n8sath5.png

I mean, that achievement is basically "Complete the Tutorial".

4J2XFDn.png

And this is practically "Start the Tutorial".

So either no-one knows how to walk up a beach, or the supposed mass stuttering that no-one in this thread seems to be able to corroborate is that bad.

Note that game page on Steam client underrepresent the numbers for some reasons. (This happens to all newly-released games I think. Probably it shows outdated numbers.) You can check more up-to-date numbers on global stats page.
https://steamcommunity.com/stats/1252330/achievements

"Start the tutorial" thing is 91.4%, "complete the tutorial" is 55.5% according to that.

---

Also Bakaba's storytime on how they ditched parrying and embraced the company's old fetish - kicking:



As a capoeira teacher, it's very pleasing to see so many folks getting joy out of kicking people. How kick got into the game is a fun bit of game dev trivia:

When we made the first player versus player prototype, we had a parry like in Dishonored. But the host player had too many frame advantage compared to the invader due to network latency. Timing for a successful parry was too different from when playing in either role and vs NPCs

We thought about it for a bit with @JonathanFoudral and @FloppyBrown I think, and then came to the conclusion that it would never work. But just attack and block was boring, and that actually it felt like fencing fights, not machette rampages. And was useless against ranged NPCs.

So we said hey, fuck defense, let's replace it by a boot kick in the gut, that will interrupt a machete attack, it can shove firearms weilding enemies when out of ammo, it's not as timing reliant. But to not be dominant it stuns on hit and throws only if there is something behind

The stun chain of kicks wasn't fun, so we added the rule that if you kick a stunned enemy it throws them. Shots from big gun also stun and open for throw. And then, it was 2 years off@FloppyBrown tweaking it to perfection (meaning: making it more potent every day, very gradually)

So when you kick someone in "DEATHLOOP" the next time and it feels good, please yell a "fuck defense!" on our behalf.
 

Zombra

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Well, there is no fun because there is no challenge.
Why is challenge fun? Because you learn how to do something and then exercise your ability to do it. But this game isn't about learning how to land sweet headshots or duck behind waist-high cover, and it never was. It's about learning the environment, figuring out the story, and building a better mousetrap.

Jesus man, look at your own review list. Was Darkside Detective "challenging"? Was Subnautica? Freaking Stardew Valley? No, these games are fun for other reasons than pew pew luk how leet I am. Same here.
 

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