Are we an RPG Discussion website or a Free Speech website?

[prengle]

And what happened earlier in the year?

There was talk that jcd had reported the site. I'm guessing there was fallout from that?

now this is a disappointing revelation

 

[Ladonna]

Sounds like it's basically over then. What I don't understand though, removing GD, curtailing "free speech", so we can have our precious RPG discussions - what does that even mean?

Is it suddenly going to be a Eurogamer like forum, where it's enough to mention something negative about a woman or god forbid non-white character to get you timed-out?

Yeah, I would say that is the second round of discussions; what WILL be allowed in the New World Order.

 

[Bester]

It's all bullshit and he'll never transfer the ownership of the domain name to anyone but himself, he'd rather kill the codex entirely. And he'll never even say what is it that's so terrible if he gets sued. Because let me tell you about the horrible thing. He'll have to pick up a phone and call a lawyer, and then make a codex campaign for legal fees, which is just a couple of clicks. What a hassle, oooof. Better play a victim on the forum to harvest some brofists and posts like "oh I appreciate your honesty, wow, so deep".

 

[JarlFrank]

It's

Hey. I feel sorry for this situation. You haven't explained what is going on in the first post, so I guess this poll's results can't be taken seriously.
I believe we as community should use numbers to express questionable words.
Here's the table with numbers and corresponding letters.

For example word WHITE SUPREMACIST would be written as: 23.8.9.20.5_19.21.16.18.5.13.1.3.9.19.20.
Simple as that.

19.20.21.16.9.4_9.4.5.1

 

[DarkUnderlord]

DarkUnderlord

Snip

OK, I get all that. The thing is (and I speak as someone who doesn’t know shit about Australian law) - does saying "nigger" (or for that matter "kike," "gook" "faggot" etc) actually count as "defamation?" Because if not (frankly I cannot imagine someone would try to sue you over seeing a "bad" word on your forum) then the solution isn’t really a word filter. I haven’t really seen anything outright illegal posted here (granted I read only small percentage of what is being posted though), but you could simply put up some general disclaimer that people aren’t allowed to "deny holocaust" or "declare support for terrorism" etc and simply crack down on people who do that (if anyone actually does shit like this here, it definitely isn’t a significant percentage of people).


The free speech doesn’t need to encompass shit that is outright illegal and I don’t think anyone was really arguing for that anyway. It does encompass me being able to say "nigger" or to point out that forced homo/tranny characters in CP2077 are shit. If the later is no longer possible in Australia then yeah, either move or close this place down, nobody needs the Codex to be a generic vidya forum #45562888663.

I'm straw-manning a much more serious issue that exists on the Codex.

The Racial Discrimination Act 1975 forbids hate speech on several grounds. The Act makes it "unlawful for a person to do an act, otherwise than in private, if the act is reasonably likely, in all the circumstances, to offend, insult, humiliate or intimidate another person or a group of people; and the act is done because of the race, colour or national or ethnic origin of the other person, or of some or all of the people in the group."[1] An aggrieved person can lodge a complaint with the Australian Human Rights Commission. If the complaint is validated, the Commission will attempt to conciliate the matter. If the Commission cannot negotiate an agreement which is acceptable to the complainant, the complainant's only redress is through the Federal Court or through the Federal Circuit Court.

In 2002, the Federal Court applied the Act in the case of Jones v Toben. The case involved a complaint about a website which contained material that denied the Holocaust. The Federal Court ruled that the material was a violation of the Act.[2]

Section 474.17 of the Criminal Code makes it an offence to use a carriage service such as the Internet in a manner which reasonable persons would regard as menacing, harassing or offensive. Federal criminal law, therefore, is available to address racial vilification where the element of threat or harassment is also present, although it does not apply to material that is merely offensive.[3] [4]

Fair enough. I understand where you are coming from. But why the mysterious polls? Why not come out and say this in the first place?

I've been thinking about it. And sussing various positions out. Walls of text don't just appear overnight.

And how would splitting the forums help you?

If I'm going to die on a hill over free speech, I'd rather it be over a forum where we're up-front about it being free speech in a political sense, rather than RPGs - which makes it look like some kind of dodgy cover story.

More and more I'm convinced a time will come where this will come to a head and I'll have to face the bullet regardless of what we do. I'd rather do that as a political forum with a (larger?) userbase that's 100% behind the concept, rather than an RPG forum that thinks it's for shits 'n giggles.

A political forum at this moment, could have the chance of making it a linchpin issue which might gain traction. No-one's going to support an RPG website they've never heard of, where the political forum is buried under a 12 month registration requirement.

Although I don't really have the time or inclination to run such a site, truth be told.

Has someone offered to host them overseas?

Codex is hosted in the US. That may not help given the way the US is going. There are also potentially issues around effective ownership. I'm in Australia, the company is in Australia. Effectively it could be argued, even if we did move all that to the US, that Australian law is applicable somehow. I forget the actual legal maneuverings but I'm not a lawyer.

Does this only cover defamation? Or does it cover state/other laws eg hate speech laws, etc?

Australia already has some pretty strong hate speech laws. We aren't America. We don't have "freedom of speech" enshrined in a Bill of Rights.

Besides, it's defamation today. What will it be tomorrow?

And what happened earlier in the year?

I bought a new bike. It's nice. I like to ride it.

 

[Haba]

Well, at this point we should probably start preparing for the eventuality and mitigate the risk as much possible. There are various ways to compartmentalize so that there is no personal risk for you, without any major effort.

But even then, we're on borrowed time. There are no "safe" countries left.

The Codex I joined, nearly 20 years ago, was not a "free speech site". You could speak "freely", you could be a mean asshole, but you still knew that you should behave like a decent human being. Otherwise dindu bannu. No crying about "mah free speech!".

Even if the other person was a complete dumbfuck with a shit taste in cRPGs, they still liked RPGs. There was some common ground. Even when they were trying to get each other banned.

https://rpgcodex.net/forums/threads/solution-to-the-german-problem.20519/

Curiously few mentions about how you can talk about niggers all day long.
https://rpgcodex.net/forums/threads/why-i-like-rpg-codex.1508/

But in the end, gaiaevolved won. They had anime and politics, after all.
https://rpgcodex.net/forums/threads/new-web-site-for-grown-ups-thats-better-than-ours.9537/

 

[Sranchammer]

Tyranny!

The Codex must return to ICQ!

 

[Tacgnol]

Well, at this point we should probably start preparing for the eventuality and mitigate the risk as much possible. There are various ways to compartmentalize so that there is no personal risk for you, without any major effort.

But even then, we're on borrowed time. There are no "safe" countries left.

The Codex I joined, nearly 20 years ago, was not a "free speech site". You could speak "freely", you could be a mean asshole, but you still knew that you should behave like a decent human being. Otherwise dindu bannu. No crying about "mah free speech!".

Even if the other person was a complete dumbfuck with a shit taste in cRPGs, they still liked RPGs. There was some common ground. Even when they were trying to get each other banned.

https://rpgcodex.net/forums/threads/solution-to-the-german-problem.20519/

Curiously few mentions about how you can talk about niggers all day long.
https://rpgcodex.net/forums/threads/why-i-like-rpg-codex.1508/

But in the end, gaiaevolved won. They had anime and politics, after all.
https://rpgcodex.net/forums/threads/new-web-site-for-grown-ups-thats-better-than-ours.9537/

The problem is, by the definition of defamation in Australia, it sounds as though even just being a mean asshole is enough to potentially cause problems.

Or rather one salty fuck on here running to the authorities to try to create drama.

 

[Bester]

"Oh no, we live on borrowed time! Better shut down right now, before something happens!"

Meanwhile 4chan, piratebay, etc all work as usual.

Whatever. Idiots.

 

[NJClaw]

It's all bullshit and he'll never transfer the ownership of the domain name to anyone but himself, he'd rather kill the codex entirely. And he'll never even say what is it that's so terrible if he gets sued. Because let me tell you about the horrible thing. He'll have to pick up a phone and call a lawyer, and then make a codex campaign for legal fees, which is just a couple of clicks. What a hassle, oooof. Better play a victim on the forum to harvest some brofists and posts like "oh I appreciate your honesty, wow, so deep".

"Oh no, we live on borrowed time! Better shut down right now, before something happens!"

Meanwhile 4chan, piratebay, etc all work as usual.

Whatever. Idiots.

Jesus Christ, Bester, can't you just drop the act for once? Just this once, please. Please.

 

[Drop Duck]

The choice in the poll is clear, because that's what the choice is. As numerous people here have pointed out - and know from experience - once you go down the censorship rabbit hole, where does it end? Right now we have one word. What about all the other words people can use? Where do we stop?

It doesn't. It goes right into turning the forum into another RetardEra. At which point we may as well shut the whole lot down.

You should pull the plug or hand it over to someone else, mate. What's the use in beating around the bush? Don't die on any hill. There is nothing to be gained by hosting a political forum that goes against the powers that be. There is also not much fun in hosting a neoliberal online concentration camp which is the only kind of social site allowed anymore. For your own sake, shut it down, while you can still use banking services and aren't on any no-flight lists.

Yeah, I would say that is the second round of discussions; what WILL be allowed in the New World Order.

Blind obedience to the oligarchy and to trying to outdo others during the daily two minutes of hate.

Is it suddenly going to be a Eurogamer like forum, where it's enough to mention something negative about a woman or god forbid non-white character to get you timed-out?

It won't be enough to simply be apolitical and uncritical, if posts aren't arguing actively in favor of the status quo then they will be met with suspicion.

 

[Rean]

As others have said, you can't have one without the other. Being able to speak your mind is a prerequisite for any honest discussion, including games. The site will just be not what it is if everyone has to walk on eggshells constantly. Everyone will just end up migrating to 4chins. OAG was lost a couple years ago, this is the LAST bastion.
I don't get the legal argument. If anyone in power wishes to fuck with the site, they'll just do it, supposed legal protections or not.
And, sad that it has to be mentioned, but this isn't just an 'RPG discussion website' for the owners. A lot of money has gone through here. Whether you have made any profit or not does not matter. You have a big community that has supported various causes throughout the years (including shilling for certain dogshit games) monetarily.

 

[Bester]

It's all bullshit and he'll never transfer the ownership of the domain name to anyone but himself, he'd rather kill the codex entirely. And he'll never even say what is it that's so terrible if he gets sued. Because let me tell you about the horrible thing. He'll have to pick up a phone and call a lawyer, and then make a codex campaign for legal fees, which is just a couple of clicks. What a hassle, oooof. Better play a victim on the forum to harvest some brofists and posts like "oh I appreciate your honesty, wow, so deep".

"Oh no, we live on borrowed time! Better shut down right now, before something happens!"

Meanwhile 4chan, piratebay, etc all work as usual.

Whatever. Idiots.

Jesus Christ, Bester, can't you just drop the act for once? Just this once, please. Please.

Only if you say "FOR THE LOVE OF GOD" and burst into tears.

Literally nothing happened. Relax your anus.

 

[Anthedon]

I don't expect it of anyone to go to court over what is said on the Codex and die on the free speech hill. Some kind of emergency plan would be good, even if is never needed. Either by finding another existing venue or a more amenable jurisdiction to host a "backup" Codex.

 

[IDtenT]

It's all bullshit and he'll never transfer the ownership of the domain name to anyone but himself, he'd rather kill the codex entirely. And he'll never even say what is it that's so terrible if he gets sued. Because let me tell you about the horrible thing. He'll have to pick up a phone and call a lawyer, and then make a codex campaign for legal fees, which is just a couple of clicks. What a hassle, oooof. Better play a victim on the forum to harvest some brofists and posts like "oh I appreciate your honesty, wow, so deep".

Thinking I would give a cent towards his legal fees.

 

[Drop Duck]

Meanwhile 4chan, piratebay, etc all work as usual.

They'll ban you for using the n-word on 4chan these days. TPB is also not what it used to be.

 

[prengle]

also, no matter what happens, if you nuke the sir-tech bankruptcy/stones of arnhem thread merely because it's hidden away in retardo land i'm going to fucking riot

 

[lukaszek]

sounds like all the pieces are moving together so that codex can be moved over to friendly admin in izrael

 

[Alex]

(...snip)

And how would splitting the forums help you?

If I'm going to die on a hill over free speech, I'd rather it be over a forum where we're up-front about it being free speech in a political sense, rather than RPGs - which makes it look like some kind of dodgy cover story.

More and more I'm convinced a time will come where this will come to a head and I'll have to face the bullet regardless of what we do. I'd rather do that as a political forum with a (larger?) userbase that's 100% behind the concept, rather than an RPG forum that thinks it's for shits 'n giggles.

A political forum at this moment, could have the chance of making it a linchpin issue which might gain traction. No-one's going to support an RPG website they've never heard of, where the political forum is buried under a 12 month registration requirement.

Although I don't really have the time or inclination to run such a site, truth be told.

(snip...)

Dividing the Codex is really going to kill the website. At the very least for me; but I suspect that for a lot of other people as well. But whatever, thanks for all the fish and all that.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

sounds like all the pieces are moving together so that codex can be moved over to friendly admin in izrael

pretty sure israel has similar issues as Australia, along with most of the world -- intermediary liability.
There's a reason websites with large amounts of user-generated content end up hosted and headquartered in USA. As long as you comply with a few exceptions, you can't be held liable for anything other people put on your website.

 

[Zombra]

Can't help but chuckle at the notion that the Codex should shut down to go out in some kind of blaze of glory, to immortalize this moment as if today's Codex is its most noble and beauteous version, and most deserving to be remembered. Come on now bros, it's been evolving and rolling with the times for decades. This is just another bump in the road.

Personally I look forward to seeing the next mutation, whatever form it takes. Even if DU throws the switch and locks the door, and faithful account holders find themselves scattered and stranded apart, one day the prestigious will find a new gathering place, deep in the stygian pits of the 'dark web', where all political -isms unite under a flag of truce to again focus their attention on matters of true import: the design and dissection of video games. It may wear another name but we will know what its true spirit is called.

Whether that place is a newborn construct, or the creaky old friendship we had right here all along, God willing I will see you there.

 

[IDtenT]

And how would splitting the forums help you?

If I'm going to die on a hill over free speech, I'd rather it be over a forum where we're up-front about it being free speech in a political sense, rather than RPGs - which makes it look like some kind of dodgy cover story.

What's so difficult to understand that it's RPGs that brought us here (common hobby) and the free speech (political, but is it really?) that keeps the community here.

A standalone politics forum would only attract more vermin and a heavily moderated RPG forum would quickly die from disinterest.

 

[Lambach]

They'll ban you for using the n-word on 4chan these days.

I wanted to test this theory, so I posted this on /pol/ in a thread about Nicki Minaj.



Will report back with results in a couple of hours.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

and yes, 4chan most definitely does ban for racism outside of /b/ and perhaps /pol/

 

[Drop Duck]

This is just another bump in the road.

You're kidding yourself, it is the final nail in the coffin.

They'll ban you for using the n-word on 4chan these days.

I wanted to test this theory, so I posted this on /pol/ in a thread about Nicki Minaj.



Will report back with results in a couple of hours.

It depends on the board and hour, idk what /pol/ is like these days.