Are we an RPG Discussion website or a Free Speech website?

[CancerUnlimited]

Where is the 'Hate Speech' option?

Not INCLUSIVE enough!

 

[Lady Error]

Block Australian IP's from accessing the website and no-one in Australia will bother you. It's the smaller sacrifice.

Spoiler

Codex bros in Australia can just use a free VPN like Proton.

And I'm only half-joking as this may actually help with the "authorities". You made every attempt to block content from being accessible in the only place where you are liable - Australia.

 

[Alienman]

Free speech has always been at the heart of the Codex, especially in the context of game criticism but I don't think it takes a genius to see that this doesn't imply a carte blanche on anything that would constitute hate speech, even if discussing things like the games industry pushing Black or non-heteronormative characters into everything, or the Gnomish conspiracy quest in Arcanum. Edgelords always want to push the bar all over the place.

While it's true that some of the legal liability issues could require changes, such as to some of the tags and usernames, is that really what you'd like to take the site down for? Are these sorts of tags and usernames part of the inalienable identity of RPGCodex?

I have always figured that the main identity of RPGCodex was being THE place to go for a good discussion of RPG mechanics, merits, and history even if it could be rough around the edges. As I recall, this is basically what MCA said about it back in the day. Personally, I think it's sad to think of losing that just because some users think it's more important to be able to throw around slurs like they have Tourette's and are unable to exercise even a modicum of self restraint. Whatever else you might think, the type of grognard discussions about tabletop RPGs, dungeon crawlers, the deep mechanics of the Pathfinder games (without the type of incorrect misinformation I've seen in other places), Fallout lore, obscure Sir-Tech lore, appreciation of the Gold Box games, Ultimas, and others of that era, etc. isn't really in one place anywhere else, so this isn't just another gaming site. The other gaming sites don't come close, but it's not because you don't get immediately banned for saying whatever racist, sexist, or otherwise hateful nonsense that's on the top of your head at that exact moment.

It bothers me that I even have to type this, since I had assumed that most of the other users felt the same way.

Sounds good perhaps, since I like all that stuff too. Except that anything can be construed as hate-speech. As soon as that becomes the norm on this site I think it can only go downhill from there on. Eventually even pointing out pronoun selection in a game will be classified as hate-speech. Every other site have gone down that road.

 

[Ol' Willy]

As has been alluded to, the Australian High Court made a ruling recently which effectively means I (and the staff) may be responsible for the shit most of you idiots post.

You must remove the site from Aussie authority or you are fucked up anyways - one day, one slip, one report - and you are in the world of pain.

Because that ruling is absolute bonkers. It presumes collective responsibility. Collective responsibility is fairly rare in civilized countries and mostly used when there is no other tools available. Compare it with Yamashita standard:

"unlawfully disregarding, and failing to discharge, his duty as a commander to control the acts of members of his command, by permitting them to commit war crimes"

Similar to American RICO law when a head of corrupt organization is held responsible for the actions of his subordinates.

The decision of Aus. court you have quoted has no connection between site's hosts and posters, no chain of "command"! This is a new low even for today's lawmaking

 

[CancerUnlimited]

Oh, shieeet. I forgot the DM lives in totalitarian wasteland. Well, I vote fuck NWO.

 

[Lady Error]

Every other site have gone down that road.

Bullshit. There is a whole world outside of the likes of Australia, Canada or a few countries in Western Europe. The US holds free speech much higher too. Even 4chan is still running.

 

[Alienman]

Every other site have gone down that road.

Bullshit. There is a whole world outside of the likes of Australia, Canada or a few countries in Western Europe. The US holds free speech much higher too. Even 4chan is still running.

What English speaking gaming site/forum has not become an SJW infested hell hole? Every forum I have ever followed have gone the same way, and nowadays apply the same rules. But maybe I'm too much of a normie since I never used 4chan, but isn't that just a place to shit post anonymously? Not my ideal take for a forum.

 

[Lady Error]

but isn't that just a place to shit post anonymously? Not my ideal take for a forum.

Hello? What do you think you are doing right now?

4chan sucks because there are no usernames, not because you can shitpost anonymously.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Free speech has always been at the heart of the Codex, especially in the context of game criticism but I don't think it takes a genius to see that this doesn't imply a carte blanche on anything that would constitute hate speech, even if discussing things like the games industry pushing Black or non-heteronormative characters into everything, or the Gnomish conspiracy quest in Arcanum. Edgelords always want to push the bar all over the place.

While it's true that some of the legal liability issues could require changes, such as to some of the tags and usernames, is that really what you'd like to take the site down for? Are these sorts of tags and usernames part of the inalienable identity of RPGCodex?

I have always figured that the main identity of RPGCodex was being THE place to go for a good discussion of RPG mechanics, merits, and history even if it could be rough around the edges. As I recall, this is basically what MCA said about it back in the day. Personally, I think it's sad to think of losing that just because some users think it's more important to be able to throw around slurs like they have Tourette's and are unable to exercise even a modicum of self restraint. Whatever else you might think, the type of grognard discussions about tabletop RPGs, dungeon crawlers, the deep mechanics of the Pathfinder games (without the type of incorrect misinformation I've seen in other places), Fallout lore, obscure Sir-Tech lore, appreciation of the Gold Box games, Ultimas, and others of that era, etc. isn't really in one place anywhere else, so this isn't just another gaming site. The other gaming sites don't come close, but it's not because you don't get immediately banned for saying whatever racist, sexist, or otherwise hateful nonsense that's on the top of your head at that exact moment.

It bothers me that I even have to type this, since I had assumed that most of the other users felt the same way.

Hello, Infinitron this poster is posting hate speech targeted towards edgelords. He even specifically names them and is advocating verbal violence against them.

 

[Owlish]

I'm "cherry picking" when I quote literally the first thread I ended up opening first impressions matter, this feels more like skinhead lalaland than the sort of place you'd see a person like Guillaume Faye talk.

Allegedly that's the first thread you opened. Not everyone that goes there is going to click that thread first. They're riffing off a dailystormer joke article about skinning fat people and then making lampshade jokes on top of it. I doubt every, most or even a lot of threads are like that.

I don't think this is particularly a website for stuffy pseuds either.

 

[agris]

DarkUnderlord real question; do you view changing the sheeeit button image and censoring nigger as part and parcel? Ie is the frame for this question: to have one, you must have another?

Because if you *do*, I don’t think that’s the case and it would be good to discuss why. I think changing the graphic but leaving words uncensored is the best course, and if you think they need to occur simultaneously then that’s a different question from the poll offered here.

 

[Alienman]

but isn't that just a place to shit post anonymously? Not my ideal take for a forum.

Hello? What do you think you are doing right now?

4chan sucks because there are no usernames, not because you can shitpost anonymously.

I don't agree that it's all shit-posting.

Some sure, but there is a lot of good information posted here and I have made a few Internet buddies that I really like, there is also a lot of genuine humor to be found. I guess it depends how much your value your time here. If it's all considered shit-posting in the end then you might as well post on 4chan I guess.

 

[Lutte]

Allegedly

Look at this retard going conspirational. Like I'd waste my time scouring this wasteland, and all despite the fact that I'm the first guy replying to GhostCow right after clicking the link to the website.

Go on, go make an account there and find your new friends, everyone gets to pick the sort of people they associate with.

 

[Kalarion]

I have always figured that the main identity of RPGCodex was being THE place to go for a good discussion of RPG mechanics, merits, and history even if it could be rough around the edges. As I recall, this is basically what MCA said about it back in the day. Personally, I think it's sad to think of losing that just because some users think it's more important to be able to throw around slurs like they have Tourette's and are unable to exercise even a modicum of self restraint. Whatever else you might think, the type of grognard discussions about tabletop RPGs, dungeon crawlers, the deep mechanics of the Pathfinder games (without the type of incorrect misinformation I've seen in other places), Fallout lore, obscure Sir-Tech lore, appreciation of the Gold Box games, Ultimas, and others of that era, etc. isn't really in one place anywhere else, so this isn't just another gaming site. The other gaming sites don't come close, but it's not because you don't get immediately banned for saying whatever racist, sexist, or otherwise hateful nonsense that's on the top of your head at that exact moment.

But it is precisely because you don't get banned for saying stupid/hateful/racist/whatever shit that this site became what you liked. Because, on average, really really intelligent and insightful people - the kind of people who enjoy breaking and dissecting game mechanics, and having long, involved, overly autistic discussions about the tiniest nuances of gameplay - also tend to give zero fucks about whether what they're saying would be considered upsetting to others. Again, this is an observation of averages. There are of course posters who break the rule, but they're the exception, not the norm.

People shouting slurs and being generally retarded isn't the reason you'd lose what you love about the Codex. It's the symptom of you losing what you love about the Codex absolutely everywhere else. The advantages of being a hardcore Free Speech website are being concentrated here because nowhere else is doing it. But that also means a concentration of the aggravating effects of being hardcore Free Speech... because no one else is doing it. If the Codex stops being hardcore Free Speech, all the absolute best and highest quality posters will either leave or be kicked out (along with the hoi-polloi that you so loathe). Because they won't be free to speak their mind in whatever way they see fit, and will either refuse to engage because of that, or will eventually fail to self-censor hard enough and get the hammer. Eventually things will smooth out and you'll be left with another bland, tasteless site that you won't be interested in visiting anymore.

I know I'm just repeating what many other posters have already said, but it's such an important point. You get what you love about the Codex because of DU's uncompromising stance on free speech. If he started trying to run it like everyone else, he's going to get everyone else's results.

 

[King Crispy]

The poll results are interestingly close so far...

 

[SumDrunkGuy]

DarkUnderlord

What is it YOU want to do?

It's not about what I want to do but about what I may have to do.

The choice in the poll is clear, because that's what the choice is. As numerous people here have pointed out - and know from experience - once you go down the censorship rabbit hole, where does it end? Right now we have one word. What about all the other words people can use? Where do we stop?

It doesn't. It goes right into turning the forum into another RetardEra. At which point we may as well shut the whole lot down.

As has been alluded to, the Australian High Court made a ruling recently which effectively means I (and the staff) may be responsible for the shit most of you idiots post.

Facebook defamation ruling by High Court exposes all page owners to lawsuits, not just the media

As much as social media has helped us to stay connected, especially for those stuck in lockdown, it has also become a home for vile and questionable commentary.

The High Court this week weighed into that issue, in a way, when it ruled that media companies are liable for any comments from the general public on posts they put on Facebook.

The case before the High Court directly involved some of the nation's biggest media organisations, but the consequences reach far beyond Australia's newsrooms.

If you're the admin of your band's Facebook page, or the local football club, or your own small business, it will matter to you too.
[...]
the court found that the media organisations were in fact legally responsible for comments on their pages, even though they played no part in drafting the remarks, because they had effectively facilitated the comments being posted.
[...]
The message from the High Court is that if a company wants a presence on social media, it's also responsible for moderating the content made in response to its posts.

"Any organisation which administers a social media account could also be liable for defamation on the same basis — for example, businesses, sporting clubs and community groups," he told the ABC.

"The decision gives potential plaintiffs such as Mr Voller the choice of tracking down the 'anonymous' person who made a specific defamatory comment and taking action against them, or going straight after the publisher — ie the owner of the Facebook account.

And that's Facebook. Where you're required to post under your real name. What are the greater implications for us?

As Roguey said: DU's been clear for years that he's not so much "I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it" but "Say whatever you want up until the point where it becomes a legal inconvenience for me."

The Codex has always been a fun hobby. And now, we have a bunch of "free speech" proponents who run the minute shit gets serious and expect me to die on a hill for them.

If you want to post shit on the internet, that's one thing. But if you expect me to take a bullet for that shit, while you scurry off under your fake name and proxy account, that's entirely another.

If you want to be "free speech", that's fine. But you can damn well put your name next to it and stand by what you said.

And how are those crying "free speech" going to feel when I'm ordered to hand over your identifying details to law enforcement authorities? You expect me to refuse and go to jail on your behalf?

Over an RPG website?

We know that a large number of the shit-posters register with free dodgy email accounts and use proxies. Are you going to tell me they're really here to discuss RPGs?

How would you feel if I require personally identifying information in order for you to post on the Codex? Enter your credit card details here so I know who you are, just in case someone decides to play games over some shit you posted.

But even then, that's not enough. They can come after me now. They don't have to care about you. And knowing half the shit-posters and trolls we have here, I guarantee you someone's already thinking about how much "fun" they can have with this.

We already had someone try to shut us down earlier this year.

On one hand, I could argue the likelihood of that is small. Who's really going to take it to court, and sue for defamation in Australia and actually take it that far? It's not entirely an easy process.

But on the other, it's a worrying trend. It's only a matter of time before someone tries it. And all we need is for one person to give it a go and suddenly, we have some very big problems.

Over an RPG discussion website.

Split the site in two and give me ownership of the free speech half. I have more than proven my worth by 100,000,000x as a fearless leader. I called the law when they were looking for me and told them I would fuck them up. I aint scared of shit. Give me my destiny.

 

[SumDrunkGuy]

The poll results are interestingly close so far...

Yeah, about as close as the score in a Chiefs vs Raiders game. Not all that close!

 

[Owlish]

Allegedly

Look at this retard going conspirational. Like I'd waste my time scouring this wasteland, and all despite the fact that I'm the first guy replying to GhostCow right after clicking the link to the website.

Go on, go make an account there and find your new friends, everyone gets to pick the sort of people they associate with.

Your post was 25 minutes after his. I don't take the word of a random Internet dumbfuck as the gospel truth if that's conspiratorial so be it.

 

[Sranchammer]

RPGs are dead. Who the fuck care about your weeaboo shit game MIX

 

[dacencora]

Yeah I’m not voting in this poll or any other poll. Not after the Kalinite affair.

 

[Can't handle the bacon]

I'm "cherry picking" when I quote literally the first thread I ended up opening first impressions matter, this feels more like skinhead lalaland than the sort of place you'd see a person like Guillaume Faye talk.

Allegedly that's the first thread you opened. Not everyone that goes there is going to click that thread first. They're riffing off a dailystormer joke article about skinning fat people and then making lampshade jokes on top of it. I doubt every, most or even a lot of threads are like that.

I don't think this is particularly a website for stuffy pseuds either.

Huh?

 

[Owlish]

I'm "cherry picking" when I quote literally the first thread I ended up opening first impressions matter, this feels more like skinhead lalaland than the sort of place you'd see a person like Guillaume Faye talk.

Allegedly that's the first thread you opened. Not everyone that goes there is going to click that thread first. They're riffing off a dailystormer joke article about skinning fat people and then making lampshade jokes on top of it. I doubt every, most or even a lot of threads are like that.

I don't think this is particularly a website for stuffy pseuds either.

Huh?

TL;DR: you have the gay cancer

 

[Can't handle the bacon]

I'm "cherry picking" when I quote literally the first thread I ended up opening first impressions matter, this feels more like skinhead lalaland than the sort of place you'd see a person like Guillaume Faye talk.

Allegedly that's the first thread you opened. Not everyone that goes there is going to click that thread first. They're riffing off a dailystormer joke article about skinning fat people and then making lampshade jokes on top of it. I doubt every, most or even a lot of threads are like that.

I don't think this is particularly a website for stuffy pseuds either.

Huh?

TL;DR: you have the gay cancer

Oh, ok.

 

[Non-Edgy Gamer]

Votes are private. Voting is mandatory. All must vote! Only the fact you voted is recorded. How you voted is not recorded against your username.

Why not both?

The beauty of the Codex has always been that we could say what we want without having some faggot ban us due to politics - be they the politics of political correctness, or the politics of some admin kissing developer ass for interviews or whatever.

We chose to go down this road instead of the Prestigious Magazine(tm) road a long time ago and it's allowed us to survive and stay true to our core purposes while other sites became shill and/or SJW central.

 

[Non-Edgy Gamer]

The poll results are interestingly close so far...

Why wouldn't they be? As many people have said, the Codex is a blend of both options.

If you wanted an RPG site without free speech, you would go to the Watch or reddit. If you wanted a free speech site without good RPG discussion, you would go to 4chan.