Pathfinder Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous Pre-DLC Thread [GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Shadenuat]

Tbh when Avellone argued that games underuse and underpay editors, can't expect more from not so veteran studio.

But first game was edited much better. Well ok, "amazing" and "much" are not the words I'd use anyway; better-than-average or whats now edited.

 

[Efe]

greybor ending was weird

Spoiler

He retires to be with her family and daughter in first paragraph.
in 2nd one hes back in abyss, killing strong candidates to instate himself as master of guild
So what he works 9 to 5 from his home and commutes to abyss?

 

[Joggerino]

I'm leveling a horse mount, and this horse is stronger than half my party. :D

 

[Tacgnol]

greybor ending was weird

Spoiler

He retires to be with her family and daughter in first paragraph.
in 2nd one hes back in abyss, killing strong candidates to instate himself as master of guild
So what he works 9 to 5 from his home and commutes to abyss?

Maybe he got a ring of sustenance and gets by with 2 hours sleep.

That way he could spend the day with his family and work nights.

An efficient use of his time.

 

[jf8350143]

Beat the game, chapter 6 is pretty messy.

Why on earth would they give you mythic level 10 so late that you don't even get to use its power. Also whose brilliant idea is that to force you to use your second team of companions to fight a boss? You don't even get 6 people if you kill some of them, and there is no time to buff or change equipment and shit.

At least it's pretty short, unlike kingmaker.

 

[Cryomancer]

At least it's pretty short, unlike kingmaker.

The house at edge of time in this game is in late ch 5, not in ch 6.

 

[Shadenuat]

whose brilliant idea is that to force you to use your second team of companions to fight a boss

Fucking JRPGs

 

[volklore]

Good luck, I found chapters 1 and 2 extra tough with a Wizard compared to my current Melee Cavalier

I wish I was playing a Wizard instead of trying make these fucking late bloomer arcanists and 9 tailed weebs work.

Personally, I measure my arcane casters by their ability to be useful or, rather, satisfying through the whole game. Meaning that I look for sustainability and potential to shine as crowd controllers (which is where the arcane spellbooks really shine, but buffs are great too). This adds up to a ranking of Wizard into AT > Witch > Wizard > Sorcerer >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Arcanist. AT is a meme, but it's a reliable meme that serves as both CC and a more than reliable blaster. Witches are great, they get to play at 'being a caster with infinite spellcasting' from the very beginning and a good choice of Patron can more than make up for their spellbook. Wizards beat Sorcerers, imo, due metamagic and faster spell progression. Sorcerers, however, do have a niche in super charging narrow schools of magic (say, you can combine Fey and Arcane Bloodlines to eventually get +4 to all offensive enchantment spells. Plus Expanded Arsenal seems to work with Arcane's school power). And Arcanist is the very worst of all possible worlds. Bad spell progression, meh class features, no extra feats. Being an Arcanist is the maximum of using spontaneous casting as a crutch.

Sorcs have pretty good memes going for them in this game. Kindred half elf is a pretty strong starting class for DC cha sorcs (can start with +4Cha). Or going elven sage sorcs leads to insane extra bloodline memes. Sage sorcs are int sorcs whose bloodline is basically a replication of the arcane bloodline. However, the game doesn't classify their bloodline as being 'The' arcane bloodline. Meaning they can pick a second arcane bloodline through mythic feat and get double the new arcana and 2x school power. Those 3 extra spell picks are going to be much stronger than most bloodline spells you would get instead. I have to say though, wizards are really tempting this time around since you get more rests than in kingmaker and abundant casting mythic abilties makes the main advantage of Sorc over wizard (more casts) a lot less significant. Abundant casting makes me want to finally make a diviner to use the seemingly really cool specialization powers (strong initiative and the aura).

Though I don't get your point about metamagic. In what way do wizards benefit from metamagic more than sorcs ?

 

[Cyberarmy]

Why on earth would they give you mythic level 10 so late that you don't even get to use its power.

I think that changes for some mythic classes. But in general mythic levelling up is messed up. In whole act 4 I barely got 2 mythic levels as Azata but as soon as act 5 started I got 2?And one more after 2 hours of gameplay. I smell cut content.

 

[Haplo]

Though I don't get your point about metamagic. In what way do wizards benefit from metamagic more than sorcs ?

When a spontaneous caster adds a metamagic effect to a spell, it becomes a Full Round cast. Or maybe even longer if it was Full round already (like Enlarge Person). Really sucks for spontaneous maguses for example (can't use spell combat with metamagic). Maybe not the end of the world for sorcerers (but they can't move to position & cast for example).

Metamagic spells take same amount of cast time as regular spells for prepared casters (Wizard or magus, sword saint, etc).

 

[whydoibother]

 

[volklore]

Though I don't get your point about metamagic. In what way do wizards benefit from metamagic more than sorcs ?

When a spontaneous caster adds a metamagic effect to a spell, it becomes a Full Round cast. Or maybe even longer if it was Full round already (like Enlarge Person). Really sucks for spontaneous maguses for example (can't use spell combat with metamagic). Maybe not the end of the world for sorcerers (but they can't move to position & cast for example).

Metamagic spells take same amount of cast time as regular spells for prepared casters (Wizard or magus, sword saint, etc).

Ah I see, didn't know. Thanks. Well to be honest metamagic is so huge for spontaneous spellcasters to diversify their small amount of spell picks that this is hardly a big downside.

 

[Werdnicus]

Just wanted to share it. Careful, spoilers!

Spoiler

Just found this note in Areelu lab:

Spoiler

That... sound familiar, isn't it?

Spoiler

That... explains why narrator in our Journal is so different comparing to Linzy from Kingmaker.
For example:

Spoiler

Great insight into her character by the way.

And I love things like that in my RPG.

Spoiler

The opening screen of the game has a mirror shoving your current save snapshot. Clearly, that is Areelu magically spying on you.

Spoiler

Better yet, guess who that mirror shows before you make any saves?

 

[DeepOcean]

Most rpgs have problems with the end game and not so great enemy AI. So, its not only WotR fault, the best rpgs out there suffer the same issues.

Pointing out the not so good narrative is the same problem. Vast majority of the rpgs out there suffer from it, also.

Most games fizzle out at the end game, but here is disappointing because they pushed the Mythic path stuff so late right when the game is fizzling out instead you having more toys to play with on chapter 3 and 4 with the game at its apex.

 

[AwesomeButton]

IMO, separating gameplay into chapters this way is decline in itself. I think the intent is to approximate the chapters in a PnP adventure, but usually fails because there is no one to fill the role of the DM and smoothen the transition through such narrative which is contextual to what the characters have been doing up to the moment of progressing. As a DM you don't even need to announce a new chapter.

In the videogame it ends up feeling like "click this line of dialogue to transfter to a new set of concerns and a new end goal". Time freezes until a you trigger progression by entering/exiting an area or saying a dialogue line. The Fallout approach has always worked better with the narrative - the end boss is always available, you are welcome to try when you feel ready. It's no coincidence that Fallout also had a time limit on the main quest, as part of the devs' intent.

 

[Sharpedge]

DOS2 AI uses utility theory when evaluating what move to make with a lot of factors considered

Very useful. Now just tell them to make a game where you can't one-shot the final boss with three different skills on the highest possible difficulty setting.

Only 3??? I saw someone 1 shot the final boss with grenades. Its at least 50 different skills at minimum.

Anyhow, the AI in D:OS 2 is actually somewhat decent, the only problem is that it never gets to do anything because you always end combat during the first turn. On the rare occasions where you do get to see it do something, it does perform at an above average level, in my opinion better than the AI in most RPGs. The AI in Wrath is also probably wrath's weakest point from a design perspective. It truly is atrocious. I can give examples from both games to illustrate the differences in AI, but I do feel like this is comparing only 1 element of each games rather than looking at them more comprehensively as a whole.

 

[Parabalus]

Sounds like Paizo's fault, they made the stats for the rest of the universe.

What makes you think the wotr computer game has stats anywhere near the AP's stats?

I don't, the AP stats are probably wrong.

The AP stats are fine. The characters people play in APs are nowhere near as strong as the characters in the CRPG.

Gear/items aren't as strong and people don't min/max as much as there is no need to.

There is no save scumming and the enemies are controlled by a human.

There is no need for the statbloat on the tabletop.

So don't compare tabletop stats to the PC game.

PnP has nerfed stats for good reasons.

 

[Tacgnol]

Sounds like Paizo's fault, they made the stats for the rest of the universe.

What makes you think the wotr computer game has stats anywhere near the AP's stats?

I don't, the AP stats are probably wrong.

The AP stats are fine. The characters people play in APs are nowhere near as strong as the characters in the CRPG.

Gear/items aren't as strong and people don't min/max as much as there is no need to.

There is no save scumming and the enemies are controlled by a human.

There is no need for the statbloat on the tabletop.

So don't compare tabletop stats to the PC game.

PnP has nerfed stats for good reasons.

I'm not. You were the one calling the AP stats wrong in your original post.

 

[Dishonoredbr]

I'm still at chapter 3 with my Scion and just want to make another characters to see other Mythic paths shit.
A Lawful Neutral Aaesimar Monk Angel , Azata Kitsune Eldritch archer and then a Aeon that goes

Spoiler

Devil

Hellknight Bloodrider.

All these options yet i think going to until some patches drops before starting a new char.

 

[gurugeorge]

Ember's starting to become a killing machine. Intially I used her for her hexes, slumber and protective casts. Then I took Fire Ascendant Elemental for her, all the spell penetration feats, gave her a ring that adds dmg everything a fire spell is cast, the empowered rods, and the item that adds +4 to ranged touch rating for spells. Once she nearly died due to fire, now she's burning everything on sight with Burning Ray, Scorching Ray, Hellfire Ray. I don't even use the hexes much anymore.

It's even more glorious if you give her some means of sneak attack and stack empowered/heightened versions of scorching ray, etc and then have the mythic abundant castings. You can basically leave any of those versions of Scorching Ray on autoattack, as there are like 11 of each. Start with the "native" lvl 2 one, and work your way up to match the mobs ramping up in every encounter.

 

[Cryomancer]

PnP has nerfed stats for good reasons.

No, PC has bloated stats for bad reason(awful AI + savescumming). Temple of elemental Evil has very P&P like stats.

 

[Monstrous Bat]

Holy fuck, this game does not pull punches. I rolled Kingmaker pretty easily but WotR is something else. Getting the shit kicked out of me on Core in chapter 3; first the dragon (I had to go back and get Seelah for the fear immunity), then Blackwater where literally every fucking thing has at least 40AC. This game seems to be designed with the assumption that you're going to powergame; those scaled fist / vivi dips appear to be the expected way to play the game. I'm definitely going to be more careful with my build from now on, though I do hope I wouldn't have to resort to respeccing the companions.

 

[Sharpedge]

Its expected that you put some thought into your character. It is not expected or required that you dip your character into anything and if you are not careful in the process of doing so you will brick your build.

 

[Swen]

Oh no, no pathfinder friends. The game dropped even more...

 

[volklore]

The game is a lot more mean with dips though because it keeps up the tempo pretty hard. And enemies actually fuck you up with really high DC spells (contrary to KM) from the get go. So having the relevant counters fast is super important. Game seems to be more about making optimized usage of mythic feats overall (on all characters) to have a good synergetic comp. Probably why they left respec pretty much open for free in this game.