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Incline Shoot'em up goodness (review and discuss)

Nutmeg

Arcane
Vatnik Wumao
Joined
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Messages
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Location
Mahou Kingdom
I'm put off a bit by the gay overtones in Ketsui and the tranny stuff in Espaluda. Might be a bit immature of me but whatever.

In other news, got the Axelay 1CC on Normal, and then made it to 2-2 where I played way too aggressively and needlessly ran into too many enemies. I've gotten to 2-4 before from a 2CC of the first loop yielding less lives at the start of the 2nd. My understanding is the 2nd loop is just the "hard" difficulty, so I look forward to revisiting the game on that setting. From what I've seen so far, it's much more busy and there's a lot more slow down. There's some new Boss patterns too you don't see on normal, maybe because certain boss attacks can now force you into defensive positions you did not previously need to assume (on normal, I mean).

I guess I'm getting to the point where these "easy" 1CCs do indeed feel quite easy. That being said, they're less psychologically taxing than setting a 1CC goal for more demanding games, so I don't feel like I've quite outgrown them yet.

Some more thoughts on the game:

Stage 1 feels very calculated on the part of the game designers. For one, they decided as the opener it should be one of three vertical stages with a visually unique cylindrically scrolling background, which I assume would have had a certain wow factor at the time, and still looks pretty damn cool if using a CRT shader and presumably a real CRT too. Two, the first few enemy formations are geared around the round vulcan, probably the most important tactical weapon in the game. Struggling with these formations teaches the player that they can shoot in a circle, and that they can tap rhythmically to maintain an angle of fire. The stage also loops on the horizontal axis, a Konami signature. It's a bit hard to decipher the decision to make Stage 1 the only stage that does so, especially because unlike say Gradius Moai stages, it's not something that the player will do naturally trying to avoid obstacles or enemies, staying centered suffices here, but rather something they might notice messing around on subsequent runs. If scoring weren't broken, it could be a fun means of wracking up more points, so maybe this was the intent - something for players to aim for after they've already mastered surviving the stage. The first part of Stage 6 also loops, but vertically, as it's a horizontally scrolling stage.

That said, stage 1 IMO is not an ideal opening stage. First of all, it also introduces you to the fact that hitboxes don't distort along with the graphics. Now that's both a good thing, and a bad thing. It's a good thing cause once you get used to it, it's simple and easy to deal with. It's a bad thing because you expect the hitboxes to match the graphics. Like if the floating island laser battery is only 20 pixels tall or whatever cause it's distorted, you don't expect the hitbox to be 40 pixels tall cause it isn't, doubly so cause you can't actually see hitboxes, just the graphics. The other part of Stage 1 that I found annoying is that part where you need to take a hard left and hard right through the narrow passageway between floating islands. It's very easy, but if you don't know that you shouldn't try to adjust your ship under any circumstances (the exploding mines suggest maybe you should) during the passage you'll lose a life. Paired with the fact that in Stage 1 you'll also learn the formula 1 obstacle collision = 4 bullets swallowed, you'll learn to steer well clear of anything chunky looking and it all kind of feels a bit kusogeish.

Anyway I remember when I first made it past Stage 1, Stage 2 was like a revelation. Everything was much tighter and as a result more tense. It's also quite a well designed obstacle course where you have to time your movement through moving platforms and find good angles of attack under cover. The round vulcan really shines again here, but also the new bombs you get, which make short work of the boss (and without which said boss can be quite a test of patience).

Stage 3 also taught me something, which is that you need to crank the autofire up in the options otherwise you might not be able to destroy the pipes (?) blocking your way.

Anyway once I'd had a bit of experience with all 3 of the game's vertical stages, I grew quite fond of them. For one, all their bosses are amazing. Mid bosses less so, but stage bosses definitely. They have manageable RNG (although I still don't understand how to dodge Stage 5 boss' fire breath so I just hope he doesn't use it too many times) that both keep you moving and focused. At the same time, the bosses' patterns don't pose high execution requirements and they dish out quite a bit of score, often giving you the extend, as so happens, in case you got a particularly difficult fight. Also, the bosses are just really quite spectacular. Stage 1's robot spider maybe the least, but Stage 3's shape shifter (I find its 2nd form especially pleasing) and Stage 5's fire giant are incredible. Finally, just like their bosses, these vertical stages are quite varied with what they ask from the player and the kind of patterns they throw at you. Nothing feels especially "puzzly", at least on normal and hard (keep in mind I can't speak for Stage 5 on hard yet), but you have to have a some strategy, e.g. knowing to switch to a certain weapon, or to hold a particular position. There are some gotchas with getting hit from behind by straggling enemies or obstacles you thought you'd already cleared, but even those I grew to appreciate as a another fount of play complexity.

I really like the game's weapon system. I found a use for all the weapons except the one that replaces the round vulcan, which is a really unique and versatile weapon. Some people might complain that the round vulcan overshadows all the others, IMO that's not necessarily true (e.g. I found I used the needle cracker just as often in the stages I equipped it), but even so, it deserves to be the most used weapon, it's just that enjoyable to use. Another especially nice thing is that the early weapons remain viable throughout. Only the final pod weapon ("Wind laser") makes the others redundant. I also like the game's power down system. Eating a bullet scuttles the weapon you were using, which both punishes the mistake, and forces you to improvise and learn the other weapons too. On the other hand, losing all your weapons and then eating a bullet results in a lost life which restores them, and thus avoids the "spiral of death" and difficult recovery issue some other games have. It's really quite a great balance.

Other people have sung the praises of Stage 6. I must concur whole-heartedly. One of the best stages I've experienced in a shmup so far. The first half is an amazing loop scrolling space battle with capital ships, and the second half is a tense crawl through an obstacle filled mechanical mothership corridor up there in quality with the last two stages of fellow SFC hori shooter Biometal, whose final boss has a similarish design philosophy. I found Axelay's one a bit less of an endurance test, although the second phase also RNG spams you to keep you moving around frantically. Shame shame shame that the manipulable mirrors of your ship that make up the final phase of this fight give score, and thus break scoring! Easy infinite milk using cluster bombs. On the plus side, it seems like it would be an easy fix, just change their score value to 0. Probably even a cheat could do this.

Anyway great game. I rate it quite highly. After the 1CC, it's still my personal favorite 16-bit original shmup, right next to Biometal. Biometal's even more unique player capabilities are even better incorporated than Axelay's (levels designed squarely around the shield slam vs levels accommodating a swiss army knife of weapons (the premier being the aforementioned round vulcan)), but Axelay has greater variety of play.


 

Nutmeg

Arcane
Vatnik Wumao
Joined
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Messages
19,787
Location
Mahou Kingdom
Some neat Axelay fan stuff I've found:



I also got a 1CC of G Darius' Playstation port's beginner mode which might just be the easiest 1CC ever. Despite the amazing aesthetic experience, I'm still not sure I'd even recommend it to a beginner to the genre as it might make them think these games are just glorified self playing movies lol. Anyway have some Zuntata



Zuntata must have been huge fans of Ennio Morricone. Many similarities.
 
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Lutte

Dumbfuck!
Dumbfuck
Joined
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Messages
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Location
DU's mom


ITZ CUMMING
m2 is releasing PC versions of its enhanced shmup ports and one of the first is the Darius Cozmic Collection

G-Darius HD is also planned as a separate release.

Oh god, it's haevan
 
Joined
Aug 10, 2012
Messages
5,869
The m2 Darius releases on Switch are all fucking great. Especially G-Darius HD, what a game.

Very nice to see they're porting them to the PC. Hopefully we'll get the ShotTriggers enhanced ports too (Mahou , Garegga, ESP Ra. De, Ketsui, etc.)
 

Lutte

Dumbfuck!
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DU's mom
Here's why they didn't release on PC before :
The Shot Triggers games are available on PS4 and Xbox One. Is availability on Steam and Nintendo Switch possible in a near future?
Naoki Horii:
For the Nintendo Switch, it would be awesome since it is a great platform for our Shot Triggers ports. But given the hardware specs, it will be a bit harder to port. Anyway, it’s something we would like to do, but that will require quite a lot of work. About Steam, there are compatibility issues between Windows 7 and Windows 10. The technologies we are using currently do not allow us to easily make a port compatible with both of these systems. To be more precise, we mostly have an issue with input lag that we were able to fix with a trick on Windows 7 so that it plays really well. But on Windows 10, this trick does not work, and it is not pleasant to play at all with at least three frames of input lag.

m2 is extremely anal in a good way about the quality of their releases so if they're releasing the Darius games now that means they've found their way around building input lag free on windows. Japanese devs don't have much PC development experience and it's never a priority but m2, unlike say, City Connection, prefers to not release anything at all over releasing an inferior port, so I expect good things here.
City Connection's ports all have around 5 to 7 frames of input lag, with their worst release being the Cotton games on switch attaining 11 frames of input lag which is unplayable enough to deserve being called a scam.

Here's a video about it :
 
Joined
Aug 10, 2012
Messages
5,869
Yeah, I'm used to playing shmups on Retroarch with next-frame delay through rollback, it's pretty impossible to go back to laggy console ports after that. I heard about the Cotton Saturn collection debacle.
 

Silentstorm

Learned
Joined
Apr 29, 2019
Messages
885
Still thankful for my family just randomly gifting me my first console last Christmas, the Xbox Series X, but damn, it sucks hearing about shmups coming to PS4/5/Switch/PC and it being ignored...oh well, i quickly bought Gleylancer and still have some games to play, but damn, i wish Microsoft had managed things better and made it so it kept being like the 360 days where it was the Shmups console.

Just saying, i wouldn't complain if Cotton got ported...though i am well aware it will never happen.
 

Falksi

Arcane
Joined
Feb 14, 2017
Messages
10,538
Location
Nottingham
Having a right blast on 2 fantastic Megadrive SHMUPS tonight.

Eliminate Down......

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and Undeadline......

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Both got a great balance between challenging and rewarding.
 

Silentstorm

Learned
Joined
Apr 29, 2019
Messages
885
For those who play shmups on PS4/5/Switch only, Eschatos is coming to those and it's highly recommended, like, buy it the minute it comes out recommended, and if it's anything like the PC version, it comes bundled with two other really fun shumps that deserve to be bought by themselves, Judgment Silversword and Cardinal Sins, both also being really good.

Oh, and Gynoug for Mega Drive/Genesis is getting re-released to everything but PC, so that's worth picking up if you don't own a Genesis anymore and you happen to have a recent console.
 

Nutmeg

Arcane
Vatnik Wumao
Joined
Jun 12, 2013
Messages
19,787
Location
Mahou Kingdom
Undeadline
There's the original MSX version as well which I haven't played and the X68000 version which I have. It's quite different from the Megadrive version. It's not nearly as difficult, for one, but there's no item juggling (i.e. you can't change the powerup you get get by repeatedly shooting the chest). Fantastic music, but I didn't spend enough time with either version to quite understand the game e.g. I have no idea what the character building does or what all the items do (different colored potions etc.). In the X68K version, the enemies feel super spongey when you're powered down. Doesn't help that there's little in the way of visual feedback when you're doing damage (I couldn't figure out if I needed to wait for an opening or weak spot against the first boss or if I was whittling him away).
 

Btan0

Literate
Joined
Aug 18, 2021
Messages
35
Not sure if it's been mentioned before, but Silpheed is pretty great. I have only played the version for the Sega CD, but I was very quickly impressed by the whole package. The only gripe I have is that it can be quite punishing. Your current damage is passed over to the next stage and there are only occasional chances to regain health though pickups and upgrades. The soundtrack is sublime, especially with the audio processing from the Sega-CD.


I haven't played any other game in the series so far but I hear they're all generally pretty great. I believe there is a version on the PS2.
 

Falksi

Arcane
Joined
Feb 14, 2017
Messages
10,538
Location
Nottingham
Not sure if it's been mentioned before, but Silpheed is pretty great. I have only played the version for the Sega CD, but I was very quickly impressed by the whole package. The only gripe I have is that it can be quite punishing. Your current damage is passed over to the next stage and there are only occasional chances to regain health though pickups and upgrades. The soundtrack is sublime, especially with the audio processing from the Sega-CD.


I haven't played any other game in the series so far but I hear they're all generally pretty great. I believe there is a version on the PS2.


Used to quite like this back in the day. Haven't played it in AGES though, so need to replay.

Been on Empire of Steel today (the original 16-bit version). Great game, but a bit easy simply due to the life bar you get.
 

Silentstorm

Learned
Joined
Apr 29, 2019
Messages
885
I recall Twin-Stick Shooters being allowed, anyways, started playing Tesla Force, beat Arkham at first try but the farm is more annoying, probably because i want to unlock Mary Shelley and waste time making the monsters get stronger.

It's fun, it starts way too easy but after Arkham things escalate and i haven't reached the 2nd boss yet, then again, i haven't been playing for long, but have gotten big swarms of monsters already, guess it's time to upgrade stuff.

And yes, i said Mary Shelley, so far i can play either as Nikolai Tesla or Madame Curie against the forces of...Lovecraft i guess, though it seems he is unlockable too.

Like i said, fun, but not exactly the best game of it's genre, and after beating it, i don't think i will go back to it after beating it but hey, you can play as Tesla and summon a mecha to fight eldritch mooks and that makes the game okay by me.
 

T45 Paladin

Novice
Patron
Joined
May 13, 2021
Messages
13
Strap Yourselves In
It's a long shot, since it's PS5-only at the moment, but has anyone been playing Returnal? It's made by Housemarque, who came out with the brilliant Nex Machina on PC and consoles.

I believe it was in the list of leaked titles coming to PC (leaked from Nvidia). Amazing combat, visuals, story, soundtrack, etc... can't really fault it. Def one to rebuy for the keyboard and mouse controls alone, but it works surprisingly well with twin sticks. The haptic feedback on this with the PS5 controller is actually really good too.
 

Silentstorm

Learned
Joined
Apr 29, 2019
Messages
885
Great if it comes to PC, for some reason, Nex Machina is the only game of theirs i can think of that came out for more than one platform, and even then, it was PC/PS4 only and it was such a flop they gave up on arcade like games forever, they are mostly the kind of developer that sticks to one system only, i think in their early days they refused to make games for anything other than Amiga, nowadays it's Sony and Nex Machina being the one multiplatform exception i can think of.

Funnily enough, Nex Machina would have probably done well on Switch, at least i hope so, and nowadays i think they were bought by Sony so any chance of any game coming to anything other than PS5 depends on Sony's good graces...and they seem to care about PC now, everything else is screwed, then again, from what i hear, Switch would have issues running Returnal and there is no way in hell the game will come out on Xbox.
 

Silentstorm

Learned
Joined
Apr 29, 2019
Messages
885
Finished Tesla Force, i only lost because i was taking too long and making enemies get stronger, the moment i just rushed in, i quickly beat the game, heck, i finished the final boss 1st try with FULL HEALTH, pretty easy game, i guess there are more cycles where the enemies have more HP and deal more damage, but still nothing that great, i guess the cycles continue the story but it's barely there and it's just some random guy at the end saying he will conquer the world now that he's obtained the power of the final boss...oh sure, that guy is just great, it's not as if i just beat his 3 phases without taking a single hit first try, that sure is a power worth getting.

Meh, will play something else, maybe R-Type Final 2 or Zero Strain.
 

Falksi

Arcane
Joined
Feb 14, 2017
Messages
10,538
Location
Nottingham
Been playing Skyforce Reloaded tonight. What an utter boring, slow, grindy bag of wank. It's not really a shooter, it's more about a grinding to unlock weapons and buy improvements, with all the stages disconnected and locked behind an achievement barrier. It's the exact opposite of what a shmup should be.

It's obvious the developer wanted to give his game more longevity, but this shows how little developers know about what a shmup should be: longevity and replayability stands in the scoring system and goals like 1CC'ing the game, not having to fucking "level-up" your way through it.

In the end, this shows the direction the gaming industry (and developers) has taken: creating games trying to appeal the most possible vast audience, without any kind of respect to a genre's foundation. And SFR, imho, is one of the best examples of this trend.

Pure fucking Decline in effect. A SHMUP for Non-SHMUP fans and the same parasites who jumped on board the RPG bandwagon, and ruined that with open world cravings after Skyrim.
 
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Morenatsu.

Liturgist
Joined
May 6, 2016
Messages
2,576
Location
The Centre of the World
So anyway I played Tyrian for the first time and it sucked. The fourth episode was actually all right for what it was, but the rest was just tile-based shareware filler. Just sit there and shoot until the level ends. The customization is an interesting idea, but it doesn't mean anything when the game isn't there. People like this? Also shit story worse than any arcade game, lol. Not taking anything seriously at all, and yet still filling my screen with boring text. ‘Spaceship man, did you know this next planet is the home of X and Y and that they have Z attacks that you should consider countering with U and V? By the way, funny joke about W here.’ Why thank you, this worthless information will surely help me keep the same weapons that will kill everything just like in every other level.
 

Silentstorm

Learned
Joined
Apr 29, 2019
Messages
885
Damn, he actually talks about a lot of games, hope he does this for other systems, should be easy since PC-Engine was the system for this genre anyways, but there are quite a few games that didn't get released to it.

Also, saw some games i really hope get a re-release ala Gleylancer and Gynoug or a compilation...hey, Konami, may as well do another compilation for arcade classics...or the PSP shooter compilations which were pretty damn good, not having a Parodius compilation again is criminal.

Oh, and haven't gotten very far into the video, but speaking as someone who tried the Twin Bee compilation for PSP, i am one of those that dislike the Bell system, precisely for the reasons pointed out, just too easy to screw yourself out of a power-up and it can kinda become it's own game managing the bells and yet just playing ignoring it is more fun...but then the power-ups are so useful you instantly focus on the damn bells.
 

Falksi

Arcane
Joined
Feb 14, 2017
Messages
10,538
Location
Nottingham
Damn, he actually talks about a lot of games, hope he does this for other systems, should be easy since PC-Engine was the system for this genre anyways, but there are quite a few games that didn't get released to it.

Also, saw some games i really hope get a re-release ala Gleylancer and Gynoug or a compilation...hey, Konami, may as well do another compilation for arcade classics...or the PSP shooter compilations which were pretty damn good, not having a Parodius compilation again is criminal.

Oh, and haven't gotten very far into the video, but speaking as someone who tried the Twin Bee compilation for PSP, i am one of those that dislike the Bell system, precisely for the reasons pointed out, just too easy to screw yourself out of a power-up and it can kinda become it's own game managing the bells and yet just playing ignoring it is more fun...but then the power-ups are so useful you instantly focus on the damn bells.

The bell system is fun in Parodious as it's for bonus weapons, but yeah in Twin Bee it's a bag o' ballax.
 

Silentstorm

Learned
Joined
Apr 29, 2019
Messages
885
Man, it sucks i never saw any PC-Engine Mini or Turbografix Mini on sale here, wish they would re-release some of those games like Lords Of Thunder to more modern systems once more, also, more collections of old games to PC or Xbox, the Aleste Collection and Cotton games were Switch and PS4 only...though Cotton Reboot at least got on PC in what is universally declared the worst port and version of the game compared to the Switch and PS4 versions.
 

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