Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

Commandos-Like War Mongrels - real-time WW2 Eastern Front tactics by Hatred devs

Beowulf

Arcane
Joined
Mar 2, 2015
Messages
1,963
IMO the “German deserter” setting is as edgy as anyone will get (this being from the authors of Hatred).


Yes, and thats a shame, form the trailer you can see, the game will probably again only focus on german atrocities, without bringing them into context, why they actually happened during the cause of the war.
I doubt it will be showing the horrors of bolshevism, which was the main reason for the radicalization and violence of both sides. Sovjet Russia did not adhere to the Haager Landkriegsordnung (hague land warfare rules), which the Wehrmacht did in the beginning of the war. They had the so called Wehrmacht-Untersuchungsstelle (something like Wehrmacht investigation unit), which did record war crimes on both sides of the war, especially in the early years, the polish campaign and the western front. Things got really bad during Operation Barbarossa, as the Wehrmacht was more and more drawn into the Partisan war, where sovjets often would instigate the locals against the Wehrmacht, by executing civilians with captured german uniforms, thus a vicious cycle of terror and counter terror evolved, much like in the years of the Weimarer Republic.

But instead of an historically accurate story we will most likely get another bland "germans bad" narrative for the 1.000000th time.

That's a very whitewashing attitude towards Germans that you present. Wehrmacht committed atrocities right from the start (invasion and occupation of Poland), albeit their scale only grew large after invading CCCP.
It's actually not that uncommon stance and you can encounter it in on the web, that Wehrmacht was clear as a whistle, and only those fanatical SS troops, especially Waffen SS committed some atrocities. And if they did anything bad, it was because they were forced to.
 

freygeist87

Educated
Zionist Agent
Joined
Oct 25, 2020
Messages
26
Location
Thuringia, Germany
IMO the “German deserter” setting is as edgy as anyone will get (this being from the authors of Hatred).


Yes, and thats a shame, form the trailer you can see, the game will probably again only focus on german atrocities, without bringing them into context, why they actually happened during the cause of the war.
I doubt it will be showing the horrors of bolshevism, which was the main reason for the radicalization and violence of both sides. Sovjet Russia did not adhere to the Haager Landkriegsordnung (hague land warfare rules), which the Wehrmacht did in the beginning of the war. They had the so called Wehrmacht-Untersuchungsstelle (something like Wehrmacht investigation unit), which did record war crimes on both sides of the war, especially in the early years, the polish campaign and the western front. Things got really bad during Operation Barbarossa, as the Wehrmacht was more and more drawn into the Partisan war, where sovjets often would instigate the locals against the Wehrmacht, by executing civilians with captured german uniforms, thus a vicious cycle of terror and counter terror evolved, much like in the years of the Weimarer Republic.

But instead of an historically accurate story we will most likely get another bland "germans bad" narrative for the 1.000000th time.

That's a very whitewashing attitude towards Germans that you present. Wehrmacht committed atrocities right from the start (invasion and occupation of Poland), albeit their scale only grew large after invading CCCP.
It's actually not that uncommon stance and you can encounter it in on the web, that Wehrmacht was clear as a whistle, and only those fanatical SS troops, especially Waffen SS committed some atrocities. And if they did anything bad, it was because they were forced to.

Yes because that is the truth, Poland was attacked because they already mobilised and the german minority was persecuted. They even tried to negotiate and postponed the attack. After the polish campaign the germans offered peace, which was rejected by france and britain.
Actually it was the polish side committing the atrocities early on. (Bromberger Blutsonntag) Also sovjet massacres ,(katyn) were falsy attributed to the germans.
 

lightbane

Arcane
Joined
Dec 27, 2008
Messages
10,158
It the devs wanted to be really edgy, they would let you play as legit Germans fighting against Ruskies and the allies and eventually win the war, somehow.
 

Ol' Willy

Arcane
Zionist Agent Vatnik
Joined
May 3, 2020
Messages
24,574
Location
Reichskommissariat Russland ᛋᛋ
Of course, I guess that we can all imagine why Pyro didn’t want to touch this back in the day (in much less crazy times)
Panzer General 2 is a peak wehraboo game (intermission FMVs in German campaign alone make me rejoice) and it didn't hurt its popularity at all, quite the contrary

I think that a pretty cool setting would be the “partisan war” in formerly Polish territories in Ukraine, since for a time there was the Polish AK fighting against pro-Soviet partisans and both sides were also fighting against the Germans. Polish AK and the Baltic Forest Brothers were fighting a guerrilla war against the Soviets well into the 50s, so that could also work as a setting (though Russians seem to get very butthurt about the topic of anti-Soviet resistance during and shortly after WWII, so this might be bad for sales too).
If you want a guerilla campaign against Germans, Yugoslavia, Poland or Western USSR with their partisans are the best choice. If you want a campaign against Red Army, Forest Brothers, Ukrainian chaps or Belorussian ones (Germans planned to leave a full-scaled partisan war in Soviet rear, didn't play out too well but resistance continued until mid-fifties) are the best shots. Speaking of latter, no one in the West has ever considered Russia as a feasible market, so it doesn't matter.

If you want German-nationals in enemy rear the choice is much narrower. Apart from suggestions that were already brought up, I will suggest Unternehmen Greif that took place in American rear during Ardennes Counter-offensive; though a small operation, it can be "artistically" enlarged and made basis for a full campaign.

German deserters fighting against Germans is truly the worst possible setting imaginable. The only thing worse would be some imagined Jewish-partisans somewhere in France.
 

gerey

Arcane
Zionist Agent
Joined
Feb 2, 2007
Messages
3,472
IMO the “German deserter” setting is as edgy as anyone will get (this being from the authors of Hatred).


Yes, and thats a shame, form the trailer you can see, the game will probably again only focus on german atrocities, without bringing them into context, why they actually happened during the cause of the war.
I doubt it will be showing the horrors of bolshevism, which was the main reason for the radicalization and violence of both sides. Sovjet Russia did not adhere to the Haager Landkriegsordnung (hague land warfare rules), which the Wehrmacht did in the beginning of the war. They had the so called Wehrmacht-Untersuchungsstelle (something like Wehrmacht investigation unit), which did record war crimes on both sides of the war, especially in the early years, the polish campaign and the western front. Things got really bad during Operation Barbarossa, as the Wehrmacht was more and more drawn into the Partisan war, where sovjets often would instigate the locals against the Wehrmacht, by executing civilians with captured german uniforms, thus a vicious cycle of terror and counter terror evolved, much like in the years of the Weimarer Republic.

But instead of an historically accurate story we will most likely get another bland "germans bad" narrative for the 1.000000th time.

That's a very whitewashing attitude towards Germans that you present. Wehrmacht committed atrocities right from the start (invasion and occupation of Poland), albeit their scale only grew large after invading CCCP.
It's actually not that uncommon stance and you can encounter it in on the web, that Wehrmacht was clear as a whistle, and only those fanatical SS troops, especially Waffen SS committed some atrocities. And if they did anything bad, it was because they were forced to.
No widespread atrocities were actually committed. That's just a lie the Bolsheviks told to cover up all the widespread and deliberate genocide campaigns they had committed behind the Iron Curtain once they had come to power.

Panzer General 2 is a peak wehraboo game (intermission FMVs in German campaign alone make me rejoice) and it didn't hurt its popularity at all, quite the contrary
Panzer Crops' intro is also pretty good. The game lacks a lot of flavor for the unfolding events, but I really love the intro.

 

Ol' Willy

Arcane
Zionist Agent Vatnik
Joined
May 3, 2020
Messages
24,574
Location
Reichskommissariat Russland ᛋᛋ
That's a very whitewashing attitude towards Germans that you present. Wehrmacht committed atrocities right from the start (invasion and occupation of Poland), albeit their scale only grew large after invading CCCP.
Since being a kid a saw a lot of Soviet movies, often including scenes of how perfectly front-ready German soldiers are burning villages and massacring local population, and this is a common staple of Soviet cinematography. But once you start looking forward individual cases you start seeing more about the real perpetrators. Khatyn, one of the most well-known massacres, was perpetuated by 118th Schutzmannschaft Battalion (comprised of guess whom? Mostly Ukrainians) and Dirlewanger brigade (2/3 German criminals and 1/3 local collaborators). Operation Winterzauber, during which more than 100 villages were completely destroyed, was perpetuated mostly by Latvian and Ukrainian collaborators, and so on; collaborators were involved in majority of such massacres. Even in Warsaw Uprising, the most "active" units in that regard were Dirlewanger brigade and mostly Russian RONA. While I criticize German policies in the East, arming and letting loose these bands of scum to deal with the partisan problem is one of the most deplorable decisions and couldn't be whitewashed from Germans, but a lot of such massacres themselves were committed by the local collaborators. Not surprisingly, it was always downplayed and almost ignored in Soviet Union since "Friendship of Soviet Nations" slogan was above everything.
 

Dayyālu

Arcane
Joined
Jul 1, 2012
Messages
4,466
Location
Shaper Crypt
It the devs wanted to be really edgy, they would let you play as legit Germans fighting against Ruskies and the allies and eventually win the war, somehow.

There's /pol/tard edge, there's Panzer General "hands off just a wargame" theme, and there's Garth Ennis edge.

They're clearly going for the third. Again, this kind of discussion if probably the only thing they got for 'em


Not surprisingly, it was always downplayed and almost ignored in Soviet Union since "Friendship of Soviet Nations" slogan was above everything.

That's why in the biggest movie about German atrocities (Come and See, I know I'm cheating because it's 85, but most Soviet war cinema is kinda unwatchable) has a pretty fascinating scene when they capture some German troops responsible for the atrocities, a good number of them are Ukrainians that are perfectly willing to throw under the bus their new German masters. Nice scene from an horrific movie. I particularly like how the German major defends himself by stating he's an old man following orders, and only a single SS man explains that the point is genocide. Variety of reasons and motivations, the kind of nuance difficult to find in Soviet war cinema.

No widespread atrocities were actually committed.

lol

try reading a book, once

The no widespread atrocities were committed is easily disproven by the mere fact that there's a nice monument in walking distance from my house to 120 civvies that got shot by Germans here for "retaliation" (a couple of partisans dared to place a tree trunk on a road and shoot a couple of MG volleys!, sure a terrible crime against the entirety of the German race). It helps that I've met the surviving relatives.

Easy as pie. Also, we're in Western Europe, for sure Bolshevik propaganda also, no?


Also fun how the entire thread is the usual /pol/tardism edge, because no one gives a shit about the game itself
 

freygeist87

Educated
Zionist Agent
Joined
Oct 25, 2020
Messages
26
Location
Thuringia, Germany

The no widespread atrocities were committed is easily disproven by the mere fact that there's a nice monument in walking distance from my house to 120 civvies that got shot by Germans here for "retaliation" (a couple of partisans dared to place a tree trunk on a road and shoot a couple of MG volleys!, sure a terrible crime against the entirety of the German race). It helps that I've met the surviving relatives.

Partisan war is always dirty, and every other army of the world would have dealt with them the same way. It's funny how you guys are incapable of understanding the principle of action and reaction. Germany was forced into a war, it never wanted. To this day the real perpetrators behind the war were never punished, instead we got the stalinesque abomination of the Nuremberg trials. You do understand Hitler offered disarmament in 1933 and the other nations declined? All you people do is take a single event, without context, and voila bad germans. The truth is a little bit more complex than that. Nobody denies that during the END of the war and in the eastern front things got bad. But the Wehrmacht was always the most fair participant even till the end, and most executions were retaliations against Partisan attacks. This is no way comparable to the vile atrocities of the sovjets or the bombing massacres of the allies.
Even enemies of Germany like General Patton confirmed this: "Actually, the Germans are the only decent people left in Europe."
 

Ol' Willy

Arcane
Zionist Agent Vatnik
Joined
May 3, 2020
Messages
24,574
Location
Reichskommissariat Russland ᛋᛋ
Germany was forced into a war, it never wanted.
I never understood your tribe, "blame-shifters". War was 100% justified from the German side. German Empire, formed way too late, was on its way up but its ascendance was cut short in 1918. As 1930 rolled in, Germany found itself sidelined and at the sidewalk of the world's politics. Tommies and French enjoyed their vast colonial empires, USA was on the rise aside from the Great Depression, even USSR was starting to get along with the West and getting into the world's economic. Germany? No one asked opinion of German state on anything. Germany was still paying off, with castrated army, ruined economy and solely blamed for the past war, lost 10% of its size and being denied any colonies, with politics greatly disturbed by the communists. Without the war or at least a threat of it, Germany has the only choices of being subdued and reliant on England, France and USA or being choked and regressing to a second-rate state in the world's politics.
 

freygeist87

Educated
Zionist Agent
Joined
Oct 25, 2020
Messages
26
Location
Thuringia, Germany
Germany was forced into a war, it never wanted.
I never understood your tribe, "blame-shifters". War was 100% justified from the German side. German Empire, formed way too late, was on its way up but its ascendance was cut short in 1918. As 1930 rolled in, Germany found itself sidelined and at the sidewalk of the world's politics. Tommies and French enjoyed their vast colonial empires, USA was on the rise aside from the Great Depression, even USSR was starting to get along with the West and getting into the world's economic. Germany? No one asked opinion of German state on anything. Germany was still paying off, with castrated army, ruined economy and solely blamed for the past war, lost 10% of its size and being denied any colonies, with politics greatly disturbed by the communists. Without the war or at least a threat of it, Germany has the only choices of being subdued and reliant on England, France and USA or being choked and regressing to a second-rate state in the world's politics.

Yes the revision of the versaille treaty was justified, that is of course the crude historical distortion, but still efforts were made to prevent the war, and like you said Germany was beaten humiliated and weak state, but by the time of the first 4 year plan in 1936, germany was a prospering nation, and when they tried to reach full autarky thats when germany was forced in the war, it could neither want nor never win. The danger that the german system was adapted by other nations was too high, since they had an economic system where the international finance cartel couldn't leech of. That is the sole reason Hitler is presented as the ultimate evil to this day, because he showed the world how a nation can prosper if it freed itself from the international cartel, that controls germany now to this very day.
 

Ol' Willy

Arcane
Zionist Agent Vatnik
Joined
May 3, 2020
Messages
24,574
Location
Reichskommissariat Russland ᛋᛋ
The no widespread atrocities were committed is easily disproven by the mere fact that there's a nice monument in walking distance from my house to 120 civvies that got shot by Germans here for "retaliation" (a couple of partisans dared to place a tree trunk on a road and shoot a couple of MG volleys!, sure a terrible crime against the entirety of the German race). It helps that I've met the surviving relatives.

Easy as pie. Also, we're in Western Europe, for sure Bolshevik propaganda also, no?
The thing to consider is that we can't really compare German anti-partisan actions with their analogues, since no one had faced a partisan movement in Europe so wide as Germans did: French Resistance, Polish partisans, Yugoslav partisans and numerous partisans in USSR to name the biggest ones. The simple truth is that Germans acted in Europe similarly to how everybody else acted in their colonies: the British conduct in the Second-Boer war or French rule in Indochina are not that different at all, it just happened far away from Europe and not always against other white people. It's a big question how Brits or Soviets would have dealt with theoretical German partisans since there was none; but you know, Soviets weren't too selective with their use of force when fighting UPA or Forest Brothers and Americans were completely willing to level entire towns with artillery and aviation at the sight of the slight resistance.
 
Glory to Ukraine
Joined
Nov 22, 2020
Messages
2,164
Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Codex+ Now Streaming!
Regarding the gameplay - there are a few videos you can find on youtube. Basically it is pure Commandos game with one original idea being a coop focus (aparently the campaign can be played fully in coop and even in SP there is emphasis on highly coordinated actions of multiple characters - kinda like what was in the first Desperados, ie you can pre-plan actions for your team and execute by pressing a button).

Other than that there is just general edgyness (ie mass executions of civilians etc). I guess that the game might turn out to be an OK Commandos-like (the studio´s previous game - Ancestors: Legacy - was OK, so they have some basic level of competence), but frankly there isnt much to discuss at this point.
 

Galdred

Studio Draconis
Patron
Developer
Joined
May 6, 2011
Messages
4,346
Location
Middle Empire
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Yes the revision of the versaille treaty was justified, that is of course the crude historical distortion, but still efforts were made to prevent the war, and like you said Germany was beaten humiliated and weak state, but by the time of the first 4 year plan in 1936, germany was a prospering nation, and when they tried to reach full autarky thats when germany was forced in the war, it could neither want nor never win. The danger that the german system was adapted by other nations was too high, since they had an economic system where the international finance cartel couldn't leech of. That is the sole reason Hitler is presented as the ultimate evil to this day, because he showed the world how a nation can prosper if it freed itself from the international cartel, that controls germany now to this very day.

Actually, it is the other way around. After Germany willingly refused to trade and went full autarcie, it had no other way to get its resources than go to war, because it could not trade its manufactured products for resources(like the oil it lacked for the entire war...) efficiently anymore.

Btw, when it comes to German deserters, the German movie Stalingrad (1993) had a much more credible take.
Guys oppose executing civilians, so they are sent to a penal battalion. Things don't turn too well, so they try to make a run for it. They don't try to take on the German army by themselves. They just try to get out of there, but have to deal with a few obstacles on the way.
 

Ol' Willy

Arcane
Zionist Agent Vatnik
Joined
May 3, 2020
Messages
24,574
Location
Reichskommissariat Russland ᛋᛋ
Btw, when it comes to German deserters, the German movie Stalingrad (1993) had a much more credible take.
Are you sure that you saw the correct 1993 Stalingrad?

Protags are sent to penal battalion because they took their comrade to the medical station and took medic at the gunpoint. Later, they do execute civilians at the order of caricature hauptmann. In the end, when they try to escape, 6th army has already capitulated, Paulus shown walking into captivity in the previous scene. There's no desertion in the movie at all.
 

Galdred

Studio Draconis
Patron
Developer
Joined
May 6, 2011
Messages
4,346
Location
Middle Empire
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Btw, when it comes to German deserters, the German movie Stalingrad (1993) had a much more credible take.
Are you sure that you saw the correct 1993 Stalingrad?

Protags are sent to penal battalion because they took their comrade to the medical station and took medic at the gunpoint. Later, they do execute civilians at the order of caricature hauptmann. In the end, when they try to escape, 6th army has already capitulated, Paulus shown walking into captivity in the previous scene. There's no desertion in the movie at all.
I had, but it was in 1993, so I got some things wrong indeed. Thanks!
 

Infinitron

I post news
Staff Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2011
Messages
97,236
Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/1101790/view/2967298318903891230

Steam Next Festival
bc8b3e640bb961681ac75f8f7e088c8d19eb8811.png


The premiere is just around the corner, so we're cooking something VERY SPECIAL for all of you! Did you know that we're part of this year's Next Festival? No? You do now! Seven days, hundreds of games... and our VERY SPECIAL live stream!
 

Thorgeim

Educated
Joined
May 11, 2018
Messages
53
It the devs wanted to be really edgy, they would let you play as legit Germans fighting against Ruskies and the allies and eventually win the war, somehow.

After all the games where you kill Nazis I would actually prefer this ... just to make it a bit more interesting and unusual. As it looks right now, you fight ze germans again, even as germans you have strong american accents, just seems odd.
On the other hand they seem to want to keep all the historical symbols in place etc. which is a nice gesture.
 

Haba

Harbinger of Decline
Patron
Joined
Dec 24, 2008
Messages
1,871,744
Location
Land of Rape & Honey ❤️
Codex 2012 MCA Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2
Hey, how about making a game about some unit in the "Vlasov army"?

Or if that is too spicy, how about some cossacks? You even have a nice ending scene for the game written for you:

The first to commit suicide, by hanging, was the Cossack editor Evgenij Tarruski. The second was General Silkin, who shot himself...The Cossacks refused to board the trucks. British soldiers [armed] with pistols and clubs began using their clubs, aiming at the heads of the prisoners. They first dragged the men out of the crowd, and threw them into the trucks. The men jumped out. They beat them again, and threw them onto the floor of the trucks. Again, they jumped out. The British then hit them with rifle butts until they lay unconscious, and threw them, like sacks of potatoes, in the trucks.

First, they refused to leave their barracks when ordered to do so. The military police then used tear gas, and, half-dazed, the prisoners were driven under heavy guard to the harbor where they were forced to board a Soviet vessel. Here the two hundred immediately started to fight. They fought with their bare hands. They started – with considerable success – to destroy the ship's engines. ... A sergeant ... mixed barbiturates into their coffee. Soon, all of the prisoners fell into a deep, coma-like sleep. It was in this condition that the prisoners were brought to another Soviet boat for a speedy return to Stalin's hangmen
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom