Which Pathfinder AP should OwlCat adapt next? In your opinion?

[Shadenuat]

Give me undead Rasputin lich or give me space girls in metal bikins riding dinosaurs on Venus.

If it's standard fantasy, then Icewind Dale 3 without rotating camera, levels 1 to 12, with survival mechanics.

 

[Reinhardt]

making a good horror CRPG is not easy.

Is there even any good horror rpgs?

 

[Cryomancer]

good horror rpgs?

I don't know. Ravenloft : Strahd possession and Stone Prophet are good, but is are not horror games. 2018 had a game self intitled rpg called "Call of Cthulhu" but is more like "light rpg elements". What we have is few horror segments in few RPGs like in VtMB ocean house and "death mask productions"

survival mechanics.

That is something which I really miss on both Dark Sun games. Survival should be harsh in a Dark Sun setting.

In a Icewind dale too. Sources of heat should be rare.

 

[Rusty Eyes]

good horror rpgs?

I don't know. Ravenloft : Strahd possession and Stone Prophet are good, but is are not horror games. 2018 had a game self intitled rpg called "Call of Cthulhu" but is more like "light rpg elements". What we have is few horror segments in few RPGs like in VtMB ocean house and "death mask productions"

survival mechanics.

That is something which I really miss on both Dark Sun games. Survival should be harsh in a Dark Sun setting.

In a Icewind dale too. Sources of heat should be rare.

Survival mechanics are impossible in a non-sandbox RPG, since the most important factor required for an actual challenge is randomness of events which challenge said survival. Since isometric RPGs have a much more limited space, random events would give a feel of increased artificiality, I think.

 

[Shagnak]

I chose Hell's Rebels.

But really, anything except Rise of the Runelords.
Yeah the title has a nice ring to it, but ffs it was like the defacto beginning adventure for a lot of groups, and even used as the basis for the Pathfinder digital card game. There are more interesting APs that don't feel so overexposed.

 

[Night Goat]

If they're hiring a sci fi artist it's Iron Gods, Starfinder was a huge flop (with good reason) and doesn't have the built in audience that a Pathfinder CRPG does.

 

[Mauman]

If they're hiring a sci fi artist it's Iron Gods, Starfinder was a huge flop (with good reason) and doesn't have the built in audience that a Pathfinder CRPG does.

I would love to see half of the pathfinder base have an absolute meltdown playing Iron Gods once they realize they've got "Blackwater, the game".

Would be glorious.

I personally don't mind the Numeria stuff and I knew it already existed so it didn't surprise me much. In fact I rather enjoyed seeing it in Blackwater.

 

[Reinhardt]

I personally would like to see their attempt at horror. Black man dies first and all that stuff.

 

[Rusty Eyes]

I chose Hell's Rebels.

But really, anything except Rise of the Runelords.
Yeah the title has a nice ring to it, but ffs it was like the defacto beginning adventure for a lot of groups, and even used as the basis for the Pathfinder digital card game. There are more interesting APs that don't feel so overexposed.

Hell's Rebels would be a nice idea, if only for Owlcat Games to finally be forced to implement a proper, large city.

 

[jf8350143]

I doubt they will go for a low level AP after wrath, at least level 20 near the end game.

 

[Cryomancer]

tarfinder was a huge flop (with good reason)

Yep. Starfinder is a Sawyered version of Spelljammer. Pf2e is not different. Has a lot of D&D 4e and 5e BS on it.

Iron Gods once they realize they've got "Blackwater, the game".

Iron Gods can be "blackwater, the game" or can be "pathfinder : fallout". I pray for the second.

I doubt they will go for a low level AP after wrath, at least level 20 near the end game.

If they go PF1E or 2E, they can't go higher level than Wrath. A lot of Adventure Paths has you reaching lv 13+ only in the last 1/6 part of the adventure(book 6). Even the Second Darkness which is a underdark darklands adventure, has PCs reaching lv 14 in the book "descend into midnight". Is not a lv 1 to 10 campaign like Reinhardt would like, but regardless of which module they pick. The level will be lower.

Wrath of the Righteous is like "lets try to make throne of the bloodstone in pathfinder"(throne of the bloodstone is the highest level adventure for the TSR D&D). When I first played kingmaker, with no XP share and din't get the DLCs, not known about the optional final chapter and some checks which gives crazy high XP, I completed the game on level 16. Note that lv 13 is not weak. Adult Red Dragons and Thanadaemons are CR 13. You can go toe to toe with such powerful creatures at lv 13. In Pathfinder 1e, getting above lv 10 is rare and above 15 is extremely rare in table.

Survival mechanics are impossible in a non-sandbox RPG, since the most important factor required for an actual challenge is randomness of events which challenge said survival.

I disagree. Imagine that you need to manage food, water, rations and a lot of risks while attempting to travel from one city state of Athas(Dark Sun) to another. Something like it can work.

 

[Shadenuat]

Harsher rest requirements, little consumables but you want them, harder to get onto good loot, more skills and using them would be enough.

And of course, a time limit

 

[Rusty Eyes]

Harsher rest requirements, little consumables but you want them, harder to get onto good loot, more skills and using them would be enough.

And of course, a time limit

I'd also add adding some of the missing skills from the PnP. At minimum a few missing Lore (X) ones, as well as truly separating Bluff, Intimidate, and Diplomacy, all in order to make skill monkeys harder to construct. And role-playing, obviously. Then throw in Appraise, Craft, Survival, and Linguistics.

 

[Reinhardt]

Harsher rest requirements, little consumables but you want them, harder to get onto good loot, more skills and using them would be enough.

And of course, a time limit

First chapter of wrath was actually fine - i bought and used healing potions. Second chapter is pew-pew already.

 

[<3sRichardSimmons]

I chose Hell's Rebels.

But really, anything except Rise of the Runelords.
Yeah the title has a nice ring to it, but ffs it was like the defacto beginning adventure for a lot of groups, and even used as the basis for the Pathfinder digital card game. There are more interesting APs that don't feel so overexposed.

Out of all the APs I've played in or DM'd (Rise of the Runelords, Curse of the Crimson Throne, Kingmaker, Carrion Crown, Shattered Star, and Ironfang Invasion) I would actually say Rise of the Runelords tends to be the most fun in PNP (I've ran it once and played it twice). It's got a good mix of RP opportunities and combat variety, has a good mix of tone between the chapters, and does the zero-to-hero thing pretty well over the course of the campaign. Sure it's not the most interesting in terms of plot (although what AP is?), but it's also, for better or worse, the most important AP to Golarion's meta-plot. Honestly the only reasons I somewhat doubt Owlcat will adapt it is because of its linearity and lack of a built-in Kingdom Management/Crusade mini-game, but both of those could modified/added-in if Owlcat wanted to. Paizo also loves pushing Rise of the Runelords shit because they know it will sell, so I wouldn't be too surprised if we get it sooner or later.

 

[Removal]

They need to do one that's more focused and has a more clear final enemy/endgame. Wrath really struggles with this after you get through Chapter 2 and it's a big drag on the narrative aspect as well as the gameplay aspect of "what to do next"

 

[Cryomancer]

I would actually say Rise of the Runelords tends to be the most fun in PNP

Interesting. How Rise of the runelords is? And why is so fun?

BTW, Rise of the Runelords is a lv 1~15 adventure, right? Seems like start with a goblin genocide which is one of the best ways to start a adventure.

They need to do one that's more focused and has a more clear final enemy/endgame. Wrath really struggles with this after you get through Chapter 2 and it's a big drag on the narrative aspect as well as the gameplay aspect of "what to do next"

Strongly agreed. Ch 3 fells like "completing errands" around the world, without a clear goal in mind of Wrath.

 

[<3sRichardSimmons]

I would actually say Rise of the Runelords tends to be the most fun in PNP

Interesting. How Rise of the runelords is? And why is so fun?

BTW, Rise of the Runelords is a lv 1~15 adventure, right? Seems like start with a goblin genocide which is one of the best ways to start a adventure.

Basically it's just a really well-executed version of a bog-standard DND campaign. You go from dungeon-crawling to social intrigue to urban investigation and then back to dungeon crawling and then into high-level shenanigans very fluidly and pretty much without missing a beat. It's a fairly easy campaign, especially for anyone who has much knowledge of 3.5E meta, but it's just such a well-done montyhaul campaign that facilitates great times with friends that you probably won't really care that much. It's also very smartly designed such that a DM can throw in a self-created or pre-fab standalone adventure between chapters very easily, at least up until the last two chapters (all three of the times I've gone through it the DM, including myself when I ran it, has taken advantage of this). Because of the last factor I've never ended the campaign with the Party's Level below 17, but if you stick strictly to the AP, yeah, 15 sounds about right.

 

[deuxhero]

Well there's one part that's definitely not easy

Spoiler

The part where book explicitly says the ancient wizard should optimize his spell load out to counter the part and pull every dirty trick a high level wizard can do

RotRL would be the IWD to BG if it were ever a video game: Lower budget, combat focused and more straightforward, which is not a bad thing when combat is the main thing RotW's shitshow has worth anything.

 

[rashiakas]

RotRL is anything but easy. There are many encounters that can easily be a TPK if you play them out to their fullest potential.

 

[<3sRichardSimmons]

RotRL is anything but easy. There are many encounters that can easily be a TPK if you play them out to their fullest potential.

That's literally never been my experience. Admittedly the groups that I've done it with have been slightly overleveled due to side content compared to the suggested range. EDIT: And one of the groups rolled with 5 players.

The TPKs I've seen in RotR were from the final fights of Chapters 2 and 5, otherwise everything was pretty steamrollery.

 

[rashiakas]

Slightly overleveled changes a lot. Also, did you run with the standard 15 PB or like most people who say it's easy with 20+?

 

[Cryomancer]

OwlCat could never program a good AI for the "runelords"... Also, they are thassilonian specialists which means that they have two opposition school each(not a drawback in party with other casters, but huge drawback for solo casters). IMO is hard to do a high level wizard enemy justice. IF there are not people complaining cuz it is too hard and asking for help like Sodalis from nwn1:hotu, you done high level enemy wizards wrong.

The whole concept of Sin magic is very interesting to me. Does the AP focus a lot on it?

BTW, I'm playing kingmaker as a thassilonian necromancer on unfair and loving it.

 

[<3sRichardSimmons]

Slightly overleveled changes a lot. Also, did you run with the standard 15 PB or like most people who say it's easy with 20+?

One of the DMs that I was a player for violently hates PB for some reason and for that game ability scores were assigned 2d6+6, which almost certainly creates characters on par or a little stronger than 20PB. The other DM used 15 PB, but that was the group with 5 players (forgot about that initially). When I DM'd it I used 15 PB, and players didn't have too much trouble (iirc there were 3 deaths total?), but they were fairly experienced players.

 

[Harry Easter]

Iron Gods. Barbarians and technology. I'm in.