Pathfinder Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous Pre-DLC Thread [GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Turuko]

I don't know, witch seems pretty much a gimped wiz/sorcerer, maybe it is bettere in the pnp.
The hex and unique abilities after the start of the game are not that useful (exept the bite attack).

Well, Sleep hex is solid and Owlcat buffed it greatly by removing Witch's lvl as HD restriction. No wonders here, it would be useless here in PnP version.
Protective luck is wonderful and does wonders to save high AC tanks from being critted on Unfair. No 24h cooldown like a normal luck so it could be spammed in each combat and extended with Cackle.
Evil Eye and Misfortune are cool if you can land some save or suck spell from another spellcaster and useful in general.
From the Major Hexes, Beast's Gift is good as I've mentioned - a free attacks for everyone.
Agony - close to Sleep but targets Fort.
And Grand Hexes are meh at the level where you'd get them.

As a package deal, I would rate them higher then Sneak Attacking cantrips from AT (as the main filler non-spellcasting action).

And Witch's spellbook is filled with some cool flavorful spells in PnP that will never translate properly into CRPG. And was truncated to the bare minimum in the Wrath(

And I am still conflicted over spontaneous vs prepared Witch. Spontaneous Witch-blaster can at least extend her repertoire with special Fire/Lightning themed items but pays for this with full-round casts for all Metamagic feats and this hurts.

Sleep hex and evil eye were great at the start of the game. I am in chapter 4 and on hard enemies get +4 to saving throws so I just stopped using them because even if you can spam them the chance they land are near to 0 and action economy dictates better usage.

Protective hexes are nices even late but nothing to chose a witch over a wizard/sorcerer IMHO.

but evil eye it's not a "land or not", there's no SR check and enemies are either immune or not
the saving throws just reduce the duration and you have to sustain it with cackle
might be cumbersome for RTWP that i agree

Uhm I may be wrong but even though there was no SR check, I remember saving throws checks popping up on the combat log and if it succeded (pretty much everytime) right clicking on the enemy showed no icon.

if they pass the saving throws, and most of them do, evil eye stays up for 1 round/6 sec and you can keep it active with your cackle (swift action) every turn
try in TB mode it's pretty straighforward

Cackle is move action.

you're right, i've edited

 

[ga♥]

I will try, my understanding was save = no effect at all. There was actually an option that autopauses the game every spell used in Kingmaker, but sadly this included cantrip so it was really annoying and unusable, need to check if they changed it in WOTR.

EDIT: if cackle is a standard action then my old point stands; can't use evil eye from chapter 3 onward.

Even with a successful save, the enemy gets the penalty for 1 round. You can cackle to immediately to extend it, and cackle is a move action.

How is it better than just casting a spell? IMHO action economy is unfavorable to evil eye when enemies are guaranteed to succed the saving throw.

 

[Delterius]

I will try, my understanding was save = no effect at all. There was actually an option that autopauses the game every spell used in Kingmaker, but sadly this included cantrip so it was really annoying and unusable, need to check if they changed it in WOTR.

EDIT: if cackle is a standard action then my old point stands; can't use evil eye from chapter 3 onward.

Even with a successful save, the enemy gets the penalty for 1 round. You can cackle to immediately to extend it, and cackle is a move action.

How is it better than just casting a spell? IMHO action economy is unfavorable to evil eye when enemies are guaranteed to succed the saving throw.

For one because you can still cast a quickened spell. For another because Evil Eye is a debuff they cannot escape from.

 

[Percy]

-4AC or AB is good no matter how long the duration dude.

 

[Larianshill]

Victor kept shilling this game in BG3 thread 24/7. So, is it good?

 

[Delterius]

Victor kept shilling this game in BG3 thread 24/7. So, is it good?

Wrath is pretty progressive but BG3 has an alien cheat on you so it wins.

 

[NJClaw]

I will try, my understanding was save = no effect at all. There was actually an option that autopauses the game every spell used in Kingmaker, but sadly this included cantrip so it was really annoying and unusable, need to check if they changed it in WOTR.

EDIT: if cackle is a standard action then my old point stands; can't use evil eye from chapter 3 onward.

Even with a successful save, the enemy gets the penalty for 1 round. You can cackle to immediately to extend it, and cackle is a move action.

How is it better than just casting a spell? IMHO action economy is unfavorable to evil eye when enemies are guaranteed to succed the saving throw.

It's not better than casting a spell in every possible situation, but it can be whenever you need to:

(a) hit a single enemy that has a very high AC. -4 to AC is no joke, it's the equivalent of flanking with ouflank,

(b) boost your chance to not get hit. -4 to attack rolls is no joke, it's the equivalent of having the Shield spell on all your characters,

or

(c) affect the enemy with a spell. -4 to saving throws is no joke, it's the equivalent of Dirge of Doom + Archon's Aura.

 

[ga♥]

I will try, my understanding was save = no effect at all. There was actually an option that autopauses the game every spell used in Kingmaker, but sadly this included cantrip so it was really annoying and unusable, need to check if they changed it in WOTR.

EDIT: if cackle is a standard action then my old point stands; can't use evil eye from chapter 3 onward.

Even with a successful save, the enemy gets the penalty for 1 round. You can cackle to immediately to extend it, and cackle is a move action.

How is it better than just casting a spell? IMHO action economy is unfavorable to evil eye when enemies are guaranteed to succed the saving throw.

For one because you can still cast a quickened spell. For another because Evil Eye is a debuff they cannot escape from.

How is this better than casting 2 quickened spells hurr durr

 

[Percy]

Victor kept shilling this game in BG3 thread 24/7. So, is it good?

If you're a buildfag it is awesome.
I spent 2 hours in beta picking my character.

 

[Delterius]

I will try, my understanding was save = no effect at all. There was actually an option that autopauses the game every spell used in Kingmaker, but sadly this included cantrip so it was really annoying and unusable, need to check if they changed it in WOTR.

EDIT: if cackle is a standard action then my old point stands; can't use evil eye from chapter 3 onward.

Even with a successful save, the enemy gets the penalty for 1 round. You can cackle to immediately to extend it, and cackle is a move action.

How is it better than just casting a spell? IMHO action economy is unfavorable to evil eye when enemies are guaranteed to succed the saving throw.

For one because you can still cast a quickened spell. For another because Evil Eye is a debuff they cannot escape from.

How is this better than casting 2 quickened spells hurr durr

because they resisted your dcs

 

[Percy]

I will try, my understanding was save = no effect at all. There was actually an option that autopauses the game every spell used in Kingmaker, but sadly this included cantrip so it was really annoying and unusable, need to check if they changed it in WOTR.

EDIT: if cackle is a standard action then my old point stands; can't use evil eye from chapter 3 onward.

Even with a successful save, the enemy gets the penalty for 1 round. You can cackle to immediately to extend it, and cackle is a move action.

How is it better than just casting a spell? IMHO action economy is unfavorable to evil eye when enemies are guaranteed to succed the saving throw.

For one because you can still cast a quickened spell. For another because Evil Eye is a debuff they cannot escape from.

How is this better than casting 2 quickened spells hurr durr

Also you are a part of a team, which should have at least 2 melee characters.

 

[Shadenuat]

Yeah if you have problemos with game/ac just have Ember+Woljif in party all the time, they kinda throw them on you in Ch1 for a reason.
For extra competence you can resist multing Seelah and for newbie AC game should then be very straightforward.

 

[NJClaw]

How is this better than casting 2 quickened spells hurr durr

I love how you're saying at the same time that you can't land your abilities on the enemies because on hard they get +4 to their saving throws AND that giving -4 to their saving throws for the entire fight is useless.

Sleep hex and evil eye were great at the start of the game. I am in chapter 4 and on hard enemies get +4 to saving throws so I just stopped using them because even if you can spam them the chance they land are near to 0 and action economy dictates better usage.

Protective hexes are nices even late but nothing to chose a witch over a wizard/sorcerer IMHO.

I hear there is a secret miniboss in Act 1 after tavern defense? Is that true and if so, where is this creature hiding?

The only area I can think of is the market square, but maybe I just don't know what boss you're talking about.

 

[ga♥]

I will try, my understanding was save = no effect at all. There was actually an option that autopauses the game every spell used in Kingmaker, but sadly this included cantrip so it was really annoying and unusable, need to check if they changed it in WOTR.

EDIT: if cackle is a standard action then my old point stands; can't use evil eye from chapter 3 onward.

Even with a successful save, the enemy gets the penalty for 1 round. You can cackle to immediately to extend it, and cackle is a move action.

How is it better than just casting a spell? IMHO action economy is unfavorable to evil eye when enemies are guaranteed to succed the saving throw.

For one because you can still cast a quickened spell. For another because Evil Eye is a debuff they cannot escape from.

How is this better than casting 2 quickened spells hurr durr

because they resisted your dcs

I take you have 5 non-caster party members + Ember, so have no other option to increase DC/lower the enemy AC and let Ember use for example hellray fire instead.

 

[Percy]

After dropping 400 hours in alpha, beta like a fag. Gotta admit I don't really like Chapter 5.

 

[ga♥]

I love how you're saying at the same time that you can't land your abilities on the enemies because on hard they get +4 to their saving throws AND that giving -4 to their saving throws for the entire fight is useless.

I love how you imply I need to evil eye, cackle it (end of turn) to be able to land evil eye on enemies.
Did you get a degree at the common sense university?

 

[Delterius]

i can't land attacks

cast the debuff

why cast the debuff if i can try attacking again

why are you speculating on my party again

 

[ga♥]

i can't land attacks

cast the debuff

why cast the debuff if i can try attacking again

why are you speculating on my party again

Who said I wasn't able to land attacks. Anyway don't need to be so defensive, just enjoy your unoptimal tactics on whatever low level difficulty you play. peace.

 

[NJClaw]

I love how you're saying at the same time that you can't land your abilities on the enemies because on hard they get +4 to their saving throws AND that giving -4 to their saving throws for the entire fight is useless.

I love how you imply I need to evil eye, cackle it (end of turn) to be able to land evil eye on enemies.
Did you get a degree at the common sense university?

You don't need to use Evil Eye to be able to land Evil Eye, you CAN use Evil Eye to have an easier time landing your other abilities and spells. How can you purposely ignore this very simple fact and still accuse others of being obtuse?

why are you speculating on my party again

Is this guy assuming your party's identity? Do you need me to beat him up for you?

 

[ga♥]

Because you are clearly being obtuse NJClaw, the point of discussion is it worth it when you have to use Ember for half the turn VS "something-else"? Not if you can do it.

 

[Delterius]

i can't land attacks

cast the debuff

why cast the debuff if i can try attacking again

why are you speculating on my party again

Who said I wasn't able to land attacks. Anyway don't need to be so defensive, just enjoy your unoptimal tactics on whatever low level difficulty you play. peace.

you appear disturbed

 

[Turuko]

Because you are clearly being obtuse NJClaw, the point of discussion is it worth it when you have to use Ember for half the turn VS "something-else"? Not if you can do it.

why would you even pick evil eye and cackle if you think they're useless? you're wasting 2 hexes

 

[ga♥]

Because you are clearly being obtuse NJClaw, the point of discussion is it worth it when you have to use Ember for half the turn VS "something-else"? Not if you can do it.

why would you even pick evil eye and cackle if you think they're useless? you're wasting 2 hexes

Well they weren't useless the first chapters, if I respec here now in chapt 4, but I don't plan too, i would definetly try something else (not sure what).

 

[Nerevar]

So just in act 4 getting filtered a little bit. How can I boost my AB to hit consistently? I can't drop guarded hearth every fight. I've heard a skald can help giving everyone reckless stance and Bard song. Is this enough?

What do the big brains do to get massive AB?

 

[NJClaw]

Because you are clearly being obtuse NJClaw, the point of discussion is it worth it when you have to use Ember for half the turn VS "something-else"? Not if you can do it.

Do you enjoy this much being unnecessarily acrimonious towards strangers on the internet? It's quite sad, but I guess everyone has the right to get off to whatever they want.

Of course imposing a -4 to AC is useless if you can already reliably hit the enemy, a -4 to ST is useless if you can already affect them with your spells, and a -4 to attacks is useless if they can't already hit you. However, many people over these weeks lamented the fact that they CAN'T hit the enemies, CAN'T affect them with their spells, and CAN'T stop getting hit by their attacks. In these cases, Evil Eye CAN be useful. I agree with you that there are far more efficient ways to gain bonuses to attacks and defenses that don't require you to waste actions in combat, and in fact I don't plan to use a Witch in my future playthroughs because I don't really like their spell list and find the "hexes" playstyle a bit boring, but this doesn't change the fact that Evil Eye can be useful in a non-optimal party.

So just in act 4 getting filtered a little bit. How can I boost my AB to hit consistently? I can't drop guarded hearth every fight. I've heard a skald can help giving everyone reckless stance and Bard song. Is this enough?

What do the big brains do to get massive AB?

With a Skald you can give every melee character +8 to hit by level 16 just by choosing Lethal Stance. Even more if you're willing to rely on bugs.

Nerevar keeping Frightful Aspect up at all times on your Wizard, Cleric, Druid, or Witch also helps, since it makes everyone Shaken without save and enables Shatter Defenses.