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Pathfinder Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous Pre-DLC Thread [GO TO NEW THREAD]

Mauman

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Meh....I think she's bland. She's like basic oatmeal when I really want scramble eggs and waffles. To be Lawful or to be Good has been done to death when it comes to Paladins.

She's not really offensive in any way, I'd just rather have any other character in my party (my opinion of a certain cleric went up recently cuz evidently he was the only party member north of evil and east of Law with half a brain when Iomadae the hypocrite came crashing down).

Though when she screams DAAAAAAAAAANNNNNNNG (she actually does this) like she's from New York Harlem I admit that fucking pulls me out of the game immersion wise. Too be fair, so does Lann's I'M SO AWESOME.
 

Orud

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Considering how openly insecure Seelah is about herself, it doesn't make much sense how she starts out as a Paladin. She's an inspiration to no one and runs on liquid courage. She should've started as a plain fighter instead.

Her character arc should've determined if she grows a spine and becomes a Paladin, or stays an insecure drunkard.
 

Acrux

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What you're being told and what you're actively seeing about a character is a BIG difference. The Star Wars prequels are all about how we're being told about Obi-Wan and Anakin being best friends; don't see that shit once.

You're being told that Yoshimo might dance on the head of a pin as well, but then his heart is blackened by a geas.

If you can't elaborate a character fast enough for me to get it, when that character is the first thing I see, then you have a problem.

And you can feel free to make me "get it" on that part of the issue.

Don't you DARE bring Yoshimo into this!​
 

Cryomancer

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Am I really going to lose Seelah permanently when I go full lich?

Yes. her dialog


S1DBYjW.png

I din't did the lich transformation but liked the lich powers.
 

Divine Blessing

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issue with Seelah is systemic for all major characters in Pathfinder, Owlcat installed for a (not to subtle) statement:

controversy. (as almost every iconic character is controverse)
Seelah is maybe the second most controverse character (after, but absolutely different to Areelu). as she is the only black major character to focus the (systemic) racism issue: born and raised in the ghetto - the cliché view on every black person, criminals.
but then ascended to Paladin, because she was treated like a human being, she matured into a nice and caring person, questioning herself, her actions and believs, because of her past (although this past wasnt her fault, she was a child).


the controversy is not the discrepancy between her past and her current state of mind, which in terms of writing coherence isnt controverse at all, but logical - as the (social) environment forms the character.
said controversy is exclusively the bigottry of KKK white supremacists, that cant stomach any black person being anything else than criminal.
i wont elaborate the history of slavery, which is a just another capitalistic anecdote, as racism (analyzed by Marx, like sexism too, is a Nebenwertkrise. a systemic installed distraction from the singular basic issue of classism, to mask the bigottry of capitalistic exploitation, which also (negatively) affects white persons).

so her controversy is based on, but not in the character. cuz skin is not a character trait, but a mere biological feature. Seelah has not a controverse, but is a controverse character (due to the audience) - a very direct, almost trivial, but yet obviously necessary statement to the audience.


i dont want to imagine the swastika-storm if Owlcat would have made every major character black - what if Seelah was a Pamela Anderson (at her Baywatch time) clone? like Arues pale skin, everyone would have loved her...
 

Mauman

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:nocountryforshitposters:

Edit: Literally you.



Nah, not really. But you do you man :love:

Long incomprehensible rant

I don't know what to tell you, but besides her one "stereotypical black DAAANNNNNGGG", I have no problem with her because of her race. And that one problem is less because of the stereotype and more due to I find it doesn't really fit in a medieval fantasy setting (much like Lann's AWESOME).

And before you make some stupid ass assumption, let me help you get your head out of your ass and I'll let you know something....

I'm not white.
 

purupuru

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Nov 2, 2019
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Seelah "likes to help people" because when she looks at scoundrels like Curl she sees reflections of her younger self. If those people do not deserve a chance of redemption then maybe she didn't either. And maybe she really didn't, you can tell she is very insecure about this, and you can encourage her self-doubt at every quest stage, which I gladly did.
 

Mauman

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Then stop barging into the discussion when your betters are talking.

Well, I'm bi-racial. Can I barge in half the time?
:popcorn:

edit - well, I see your answer, but I'm afraid I can't follow it. But that's ok. Your cantankerous kind is amusing to me so I'll love you anyways even if it's one sided. :D
 
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Cryomancer

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history of slavery

Because if you elaborate in the history of slavery, you will be forced to recognize that eastern europeans are those who suffered the most with the institution of slavery, that the arab slave trade was far worse and enslaved Europeans too, that less than 1% of southern whites on USA owned slaves, that Brazil took dozens of times more slaves than USA and was a blonde, blue eyed princess(Isabel) who ended slavery in Brazil and the empire suffered a coup as a consequence of it. In fact, abolitionists was mostly whites. Slavery is not the "white evil, black victim" as the public indoctrination completely dominated by marxist of Frankfurt school makes you believe. Is a much more complex topic.

About the Arab slave trade. Do you know why there are way less descendants of slaves in Arab countries than in Brazil for eg? Castration.


And Marxism only bough mystery and tyranny; All of Marx predictions was wrong. The unique good thing about marxism is that it eventually collapses.

everyone would have loved her...

No, I would't like her regardless of her skin color. She is too moralist and egalitarian.
 
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Raghar

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Why is Seelah poorly written?

You answered this question here.

She is a Tristian in paladin's clothing. And that's how she is written.

This is why Seelah is poorly written.
The problem is Tristian was misguided BISHOUNEN character who every woman would excuse for his massive atrocities committed because of his misguided behavior and kindness.

Seelah don't even have these misguided atrocities advantages.
 

Divine Blessing

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Because if you elaborate in the history of slavery, you will be forced to recognize that eastern europeans are those who suffered the most with the institution of slavery, that the arab slave trade was far worse and enslaved Europeans too, that less than 1% of southern whites on USA owned slaves, that Brazil took dozens of times more slaves than USA and was a blonde, blue eyed princess(Isabel) who ended slavery in Brazil and the empire suffered a coup as a consequence of it. In fact, abolitionists was mostly whites. Slavery is not the "white evil, black victim" as the public indoctrination completely dominated by marxist of Frankfurt school makes you believe. Is a much more complex topic.

About the Arab slave trade. Do you know why there are way less descendants of slaves in Arab countries than in Brazil for eg? Castration.



And Marxism only bough mystery and tyranny; All of Marx predictions was wrong. The unique good thing about marxism is that it eventually collapses.



No, I would't like her regardless of her skin color. She is too moralist and egalitarian.


lol, what? etymologcially the term slave derives from the eastern european tribe of Slavs, but the origin of slavery in history dates back to neolithical era, and was industrialized in China and Egypt, Europeans were rather late to that party.

but the volumes of slaves (trivial) is never the issue of any serious debate on slavery, but their origin, reasons and consequences. although quoted argumentation is the stereotypical example it still indicates the real issue: the 1% southerners, that owned slaves.

read again: Nebenwertkrise. is a systemic installed distraction from the real issue of classism, aka the (social) environment for capitalism.

Marx as scientist, not ideologist, is undisputed at least in academic milieu. Marx sociological analysis of society cant be denied, as the collective hierarchy is a class based caste system. Marx became the fundament for every sociologial discipline (like Antropology), from Durkheim to Bourdieu.

just to avoid a fundamental misunderstanding - the ideology (is not the sociology) of marxist((-leninist, whatever) communism is nonsense for many reasons, although it is in fact the basic understanding of human rights - every human being has to have the same rights.
but the real issue isnt even the fact that Brazil is another stereotypical example (as Portugese colony) for white capital not only exploiting natives and forced immigrants, (like the US was build on forced immigration,) but themselves and their own people. the real issue is systemic exploitation, aka capitalism, which eventually will (to quote ur words) "collapse" not the world, but mankind, cuz climate change due to capitalistic exploitation is real.
racism, as sexism, as poverty is just one of the many (Nebenwertkrisen) factors capitalism abuses for distraction.


but the debate is about the writing of Seelah character. a few defensive reactions, while others outright stated their racism and interestingly some rlly seemed to like Seelah. so my hypothesis on Seelah being a controversial character and on Owlcats intent (she is the singular Black character in PF for a statement to the audience) is quod erat demonstrandum.

there still is one major criteria missing: the definition of quality (aka good) writing. but i dont expect even a naive linguistic approach from kkKodex: prove me wrong.
 
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Speaking about Seelah, my first playthrough was 100% blind Lich so I wasn't absolutely sure how, when or if she would actually leave, but I could've seen it coming. Anyhow, I've invested so much in the bitch, including the Realm Protector armor (that one bonkers full plate that grants you stackable DR for every dead outsider in vicinity, essentially making you invulnerable at the time and it really was a godsend for the first few patches before they heavily nerfed Core difficulty and tweaked many enemies). So this bitch just comes up after Iomedae and she pulls off the "SHIEEEEET COMMANDAH DEAD BE NASTY" and leaves my ass and the biggest problem for me was that I couldn't hunt down the bitch and get the items back, either due to a bug or a lack of opportunity, not sure which.
 

Cryomancer

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climate change

China which is governed by a single communist party is the country which damages mostly the environment.

racism, as sexism, as poverty is just one of the many (Nebenwertkrisen) factors capitalism abuses for distraction.

Wrong. More capitalism means less poverty. And racism and sexism, in a world where even artificial intelligence can be considered racist is nonsense. Just look into the ex soviet union countries who embraced capitalism. Those who are the best to do business are the best ones to live. People suffer with proverty where they lack capitalism. Like in African Countries who expelled white farmers, in North Korea and so on. Capitalism brings prosperity.

o my hypothesis on Seelah being a controversial character and on Owlcats intent (she is the singular Black character in PF for a statement to the audience) is quod erat demonstrandum.

Wrong. She is the typical zealot paladin. Nothing original, nothing great, nothing bad. I would put her in the same tier of most nwn2 oc companions. Look to Camellia, she has way more interesting things and is a twist. You can't make her your housewife. About her with spoilers :



I disagree with him about it being better than Wrath but see how she is more original.

Anyhow, I've invested so much in the bitch,

If I learn how to mod mythic paths(I already know how to code in C#, I just am getting a lot of problems understanding how to mod mp), I will gonna give a option to kill her and reanimate her as a death knight, regardless of you deciding to be a lich or to refuse the ritual, kill your master and become a vampire.
 

Haplo

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Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
I am pretty sure I've fucked myself over by killing demon armies too fast on the world map... there isn't really anything left to kill and my morale is reducing steadily because I've "stopped winning battles".
this was supposed to be fixed

OWLCAAAAAATS

Can't say for sure as I'm still in Act 2. But seems to more-or-less work for me in that act. After getting morale around -45 in Leper's Smile - and not that many battles left - I'm now positive again, with morale improving on every rest - regardless if my armies fight or not.
 

Haplo

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Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
Damn, I thought Animal Growth was supposed to... well... grow the size of my AC. And hopefully let me ride it while Enlarged (later Frigtening Aspect'ed). Meanwhile my Smilodon's size didn't visually change and, while Enlarged, I lost the capability to mount it. WTF?
 

Mauman

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Damn, I thought Animal Growth was supposed to... well... grow the size of my AC. And hopefully let me ride it while Enlarged (later Frigtening Aspect'ed). Meanwhile my Smilodon's size didn't visually change and, while Enlarged, I lost the capability to mount it. WTF?

It does, but only on a horse.

That's because, in Owlcat's infinite wisdom, they made the size increase that most animal companions get A BUFF. A buff with no stats and that can't be dispelled either, so the stats for Animal Growth will function, but the size increase won't.

So yeah, if you want to have an enlarged human (or other normally medium sized creature) ride around on an animal, it has to be a horse

Incidently, trying to have a medium sized creature ride an enlarged horse does some, uh, interesting things to the medium sized creature's character model.
 

mediocrepoet

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Damn, I thought Animal Growth was supposed to... well... grow the size of my AC. And hopefully let me ride it while Enlarged (later Frigtening Aspect'ed). Meanwhile my Smilodon's size didn't visually change and, while Enlarged, I lost the capability to mount it. WTF?

It does, but only on a horse.

That's because, in Owlcat's infinite wisdom, they made the size increase that most animal companions get A BUFF. A buff with no stats and that can't be dispelled either, so the stats for Animal Growth will function, but the size increase won't.

So yeah, if you want to have an enlarged human (or other normally medium sized creature) ride around on an animal, it has to be a horse

Incidently, trying to have a medium sized creature ride an enlarged horse does some, uh, interesting things to the medium sized creature's character model.

This is valuable information. It also blows my mind and makes me cry a little.
 

Mauman

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Damn, I thought Animal Growth was supposed to... well... grow the size of my AC. And hopefully let me ride it while Enlarged (later Frigtening Aspect'ed). Meanwhile my Smilodon's size didn't visually change and, while Enlarged, I lost the capability to mount it. WTF?

It does, but only on a horse.

That's because, in Owlcat's infinite wisdom, they made the size increase that most animal companions get A BUFF. A buff with no stats and that can't be dispelled either, so the stats for Animal Growth will function, but the size increase won't.

So yeah, if you want to have an enlarged human (or other normally medium sized creature) ride around on an animal, it has to be a horse

Incidently, trying to have a medium sized creature ride an enlarged horse does some, uh, interesting things to the medium sized creature's character model.

This is valuable information. It also blows my mind and makes me cry a little.

Yeah, it's stupid. That being said, it most likely means that a strength based gnome or halfling (that wants to take advantage of legendary proportions or frightful aspect despite the racial strength malus) would be your best bet for a non-horse riding character. It's stupid, but it should work.
 

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