1eyedking Vampire: The Masquerade - goth cringe or Christian apologetic?

[Popiel]

Guys. The Kindreds stories about the origins of the world are... Partial? Ahem, Mages would name the original fracturing of the Whole, while Garous would def talk about the Impergium, before naming the fucking deluge. Again the setting is called OWoD or World of Darkness. Hell, probably the most complete recounting of events you can find in Kindred of the East (2nd edition iirc), the previous ages and the Wan Xian. Exalted, one of the last products that White Wolf originally produced before changing its face forever, had this little seal on the back of 1st edition book "Age of Sorrow".

That should have been the original Fantasy Setting leading towards the modern World of Darkness as we know. Christian trappings and folklore are only ways of explaining in-game effects. It's pointed over and over, for example, that it's the power of faith, and not a specific symbol tha allows a true mortal practicioner to repel kindreds.

Yeah, but if you buy into whole ‘Exalted is oWoD’s pre-prehistory’ then you end up with quite a definite and detailed account of what exactly happened. I personally quite like this connection, it’s not canon however and with each passin’ edition it deviates further from canonicity (even though as far as I’m aware 3E of Exalted reintroduced some of the easter eggs?). As I’ve said, personally I like this, it’s also a nice theme, especially if you (as you should) connect the Imbued, that is the Hunters, with Solar Exalted of old.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

Why can't they make a game about hunting these fools down anyway?

 

[Cryomancer]

But but but it's totally impossible!11one!

In that time, we only had simple single cell organisms. You just cherry picked some scientific facts. When the science says something that corroborates your faith, it is truth. When says something against, it is a conspiration, unreliable.

Why can't they make a game about hunting these fools down anyway?

What type of vampire hunting game would you prefer? Being a zealot vampire hunter in a zealot religious order? Being a werewolf? Both are the greatest vampire hunters in world of darkness. I doubt that you will be interested in mage : the ascension. If people complain about archwizards in D&D, I wonder how much they will complain about MTA archmages. What a ancient tremere can do with his blood sorcery is a tiny fraction of the power that the true magic holds in WoD. Is interesting that contrary to other places, in WoD, Werewolves > Vampires.

In fact, mages, humans with true faith, werewolves, abominations, demons(...) all are far stronger than vampires in WoD.

 

[Matalarata]

I personally quite like this connection, it’s not canon however and with each passin’ edition it deviates further from canonicity

That's just because White-Wolf died, between Exalted 1st and 2nd edition, it was more or less retconned and turned into fantasy Wuxia. It definitely isn't so anymore, I agree. Originally though, that was definitely the idea. The "Age of Sorrow" line of books was the most direct indication, being it was the most widely used name for the prehistoric era of legendary being that fell from grace somehow before the age of mortals. Then you have the corruption of Solar themselves, the fact that Abyssal originally shunned sunlight and drank blood, the Lunar Exalted and the Myriad shapes and the Sideral with their (our) loom of fate. All pieces of the puzzle fall into the correct holes a bit too precisely for it to be simply ignored.
Again, my personal opinion is the old guard simply left, in many cases with a wimp and a whisper since White-Wolf was notorious for not crediting contributors and authors. Those that took the place simply didn't care, couldn't be hassled with or preferred to force their own vision upon the product. I was there on their boards back then and the process was simply terrible to behold.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Why can't they make a game about hunting these fools down anyway?

There's a VTMB-based campaign where you play as a hunter
https://www.moddb.com/mods/vtmb-prelude

 

[Ol' Willy]

Edit: To embarrass you and your lack of knowledge even further there were four major sects of Judaism when Yeshua did his ministry. You had the Sadducees that were the priests, aristocracy, and merchants. Pharisees were the scribes and regular people. Ebionites which were Jews that believed that the Sadducees and Pharisees were corrupt and practiced in communes far from cities. Finally, you had the Nazarites that were in persecuted by the Sadducees and Pharisees for following Yeshua.

Forgetting Essenes, one of which was Jesus himself, by the way

 

[Pink Eye]

No, can you chose to just believe that 2+2 is 5?

That's such a silly, silly, simplification of the discussion. Of course two plus two doesn't equal five. No matter how you perform the equation you'll never get to that result. Mathematics is based on the ability to use deduction in order to produce an answer that anyone can reproduce though your logic. No one can reproduce the five variable, as you made it up. Simply put. You're not choosing to believe that five is the answer. You're just grossly oversimplifying matters of faith and religion in order to strawman - which is counterproductive.

Faith isn't about defying logic. It's about keeping one's self anchored during moments of despair and hopelessness. To have trust that things *will* get better. Comfort. After all; who does man turn to during moments of when Death nears close? God. It doesn't matter what religion you fall under. We all pray to something out there. I know I did during my cancer treatment. Many times and over. I had the Quran near my bed, even though I couldn't read it, nor can I do the prayings. My mother would do them for me instead. Made me feel secure. Gave me hope that maybe God will watch out for me.

If all you got from your Sunday church lessons is big flood make no sense. Then you weren't really paying attention.

 

[JamesDixon]

But but but it's totally impossible!11one!

In that time, we only had simple single cell organisms. You just cherry picked some scientific facts. When the science says something that corroborates your faith, it is truth. When says something against, it is a conspiration, unreliable.

Why can't they make a game about hunting these fools down anyway?

What type of vampire hunting game would you prefer? Being a zealot vampire hunter in a zealot religious order? Being a werewolf? Both are the greatest vampire hunters in world of darkness. I doubt that you will be interested in mage : the ascension. If people complain about archwizards in D&D, I wonder how much they will complain about MTA archmages. What a ancient tremere can do with his blood sorcery is a tiny fraction of the power that the true magic holds in WoD. Is interesting that contrary to other places, in WoD, Werewolves > Vampires.

In fact, mages, humans with true faith, werewolves, abominations, demons(...) all are far stronger than vampires in WoD.

1. Prove that there were only single cell organisms via a written record from that time frame.

2. You haven't presented anything that does contradict my beliefs. In fact, you haven't presented anything at all. You kept moving to a different subject because you're an intellectual coward and afraid to debate someone more knowledgeable then you.

 

[Sunri]

Everyone is talking about bloodlines, but what about redemption is the first one worth playing?

Spoiler

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0uhXJca93E

 

[Atlantico]

Everyone is talking about bloodlines, but what about redemption is the first one worth playing?

The voice acting and writing is soul scarring

"Nay, tis but a scratch"

 

[thesheeep]

Why can't they make a game about hunting these fools down anyway?

Just be happy that the "sparkly" thing didn't catch on.

 

[Cryomancer]

Faith isn't about defying logic.

Even with faith. Can you decide that the Quran is not truth and that the Bible is? My point is that we can't chose our faith.

You kept moving to a different subject because you're an intellectual coward and afraid to debate someone more knowledgeable then you.

No, you din't posted evidences that in breeding in the past would't lead to the same problems that we have now hence a family creating hundreds of distinct ethinic groups, sub saharan africans, Fuegians, Nordic people, Japanese people in few generations a 600 yo man and his family created this high amount of genetic diversity. That goes against everything that we know about genetics.

And as I've said, if the Genesis was truth, it would be the unique and absolute truth in every culture since every culture would know the real origin of humankind. Christianity would't be a Jew sect who got popularized among the lowest of Roman society and then got imposed into everyone. In fact, a holy book written by a omnipotent being would be clear as possible, not with so many contradictions that not even Christians agrees in themselves in the most fundamental aspects of their believes? Why a supposed omnipotent deity can't be clear in his/her supposed message? Why let his followers kill themselves over religious war over their interpretation of his supposed word?

Why can't they make a game about hunting these fools down anyway?

Just be happy that the "sparkly" thing didn't catch on.

Yep. Nobody deserve fairy vampires. Vampires should BURN if exposed to sunlight,

As for vampire hunting games, BloodRayne is amazing.

Rayne

Everyone is talking about bloodlines, but what about redemption is the first one worth playing?

Redemption is vastly different than bloodlines. You don't chose your protagonist, you play as a Crusade who become a 8th generation vampire of a specific clan and the game is far more linear. The game is mostly medieval and I believe that is set in PRAGUE. Never played cuz crashes in my PC.

 

[thesheeep]

As for vampire hunting games, BloodRayne is amazing.

True!
I totally forgot about that game. Am I the only one?

 

[ERYFKRAD]

we can't chose our faith.

Nigga wot

 

[Saduj]

Why do you think God isn't bound by the laws he created? That would make him a lawbreaker and a sinner.

Part of the belief system is that God is, by definition, infallible. The rules are for people, not Him.

 

[Pink Eye]

Can you decide that the Quran is not truth and that the Bible is?

Why would I need to make that assessment? I don't care if the Quran is truth or not. I'm not a Muslim. Nor do I practice Islam. My family does. However, each book covers the same prophets, the same gospels, etc. Even Jesus Christ is mentioned in the Quran. While he isn't seen as the son of god. He's still mentioned.

My point is that we can't chose our faith.

Faith isn't some piece of cloth that you put on or discard. It goes beyond ideology. Now I'm curious. Did you ever attend those Sunday Church lessons?

 

[thesheeep]

we can't chose our faith.

Nigga wot

I think that was meant in the sense of not just being able to say "I believe in X now". You can't pick what you do or do not believe in.
It's a process that happens over time and is influenced by a myriad of things - though mostly by the culture you grow up in and people you grow up with. Hence most people become Christians in countries that have a Christian background, same with all other religions. Same with atheism.

Which makes all these "No, OUR belief is correct!"-"discussions" so wonderfully hilarious - in the end, it's almost all just based on the dice roll of where and how you grew up.
The vast majority of people do not question their own beliefs - and why would they? They tend to live well enough with it and questioning it would lead to pushback from their environment.
In the same vein, only very few people seem to be naturally inclined to look beyond their own cultural upbringing.

Either way, how is this in gaming still?

 

[ERYFKRAD]

It's a process that happens over time and is influenced by a myriad of things - though mostly by the culture you grow up in and people you grow up with

I don't disagree, but I don't think that means people don't choose their faith on some level. But I suppose I am just splitting hairs here so eh.

No, OUR belief is correct!

It is though.

 

[DJOGamer PT]

cRPGs were made as a poor substitute for tabletop. A computer game will never, EVER compare. Let the friendless abortions seethe.

And a PnP RPG will never, EVER compare to the complexity and scale a CPRG can achieve

 

[Semiurge]

Infinitron is the time split o' clock, again?

 

[Cryomancer]

cRPGs were made as a poor substitute for tabletop. A computer game will never, EVER compare. Let the friendless abortions seethe.

And a PnP RPG will never, EVER compare to the complexity and scale a CPRG can achieve

Name one CRPG more complex than FATAL. And roll for anal circumference!!!

 

[ERYFKRAD]

cRPGs were made as a poor substitute for tabletop. A computer game will never, EVER compare. Let the friendless abortions seethe.

And a PnP RPG will never, EVER compare to the complexity and scale a CPRG can achieve

Name one CRPG more complex than FATAL. And roll for anal circumference!!!

Spoiler

Realms of Arkania HD

 

[Ol' Willy]

Faith isn't some piece of cloth that you put on or discard. It goes beyond ideology. Now I'm curious. Did you ever attend those Sunday Church lessons?

Meredoth is right. Can you choose not to believe? Can you choose to stop believing? Either you do or you not

 

[Ol' Willy]

No, you din't posted evidences that in breeding in the past would't lead to the same problems that we have now hence a family creating hundreds of distinct ethinic groups, sub saharan africans, Fuegians, Nordic people, Japanese people in few generations a 600 yo man and his family created this high amount of genetic diversity. That goes against everything that we know about genetics.

You talk to the man who believes that all people are descended from Adam and Eve. So, wypipo, AZNs, shitskins, various injuns, all just somehow started to exist in their form because reasons. It completely denies multiregional theory

 

[Atlantico]

And a PnP RPG will never, EVER compare to the complexity and scale a CPRG can achieve

That's only true if you put the most banal interpretation into complexity and scale.

e.g. omg Daggerfall is yuge!