Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

Pathfinder Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous Pre-DLC Thread [GO TO NEW THREAD]

Raghar

Arcane
Vatnik
Joined
Jul 16, 2009
Messages
22,506
Well, they should be able to save against SLOW. Getting Haste and possibly slow enemies as single action is nice.

And game don't have to be fun. That's like saying every movie should be fun. (or porn) BBC documentaries could be interesting, but not necessary fun.
 

Delterius

Arcane
Joined
Dec 12, 2012
Messages
15,956
Location
Entre a serra e o mar.
All and all, so far I feel that the Aeon is just, like... a bullied character? Like... the Owlcat designers look down on people like me? Like... I feel like I'm being told I should just close my game and stop playing it.
I don't even qualify as an armchair project lead, but Wrath is so big and over-ambitious that I envision a development pipeline that is all over the place. Owlcat originally intended for Gold Dragon, Legend and Swarm to be balls to the wall insane in terms of story and character power. At release Legend didn't even get extra iterative attacks from their higher BAB, so Angel and Lich absolutely clowned on them all. And frankly they still do for the most part. Is it because of an Angel/Lich fanboy conspiracy on the team? They also said that Aeon should feel like a space-time wizard guy, but he's obviously a souped up Inquisitor. Was that even a conscious design decision on their part? There's a huge fuck-you 2 map dungeon that is optional at the end of the game, while the actual main plot of the ending feels rushed. What even happened in there?

The clearest explanation is that all the devs are overworked and if they had to stop and think these things through nothing would get done.
And game don't have to be fun.
stfu
 
Last edited:

Raghar

Arcane
Vatnik
Joined
Jul 16, 2009
Messages
22,506
And game don't have to be fun.
we're now entering levels of cope that shouldn't be possible
Was main character of that Elysium adventure fun? Complete train wreck of self-loathing detective. Are dragon age origins deep roads fun?

I'd probably find a lot of modern games that kinda tries something else than fun. (But sometimes they are playable, and perhaps even interesting.)
 

Cryomancer

Arcane
Glory to Ukraine
Joined
Jul 11, 2019
Messages
14,476
Location
Frostfell
over-ambitious

I agree. IMO if they had tonned down the mythic paths to lets say 4, the undead mythic path, the celestial mythic path, the legend mythic path and the primal mythic path with variants only in late stages(eg - chaotic celestials become azata, lawful angels, lawful undeads become liches and chaotic vampires), the game would be way better.

Lets hope that their next game will have no mythic paths, at best racial templates.
 
Vatnik Wumao
Joined
Oct 2, 2018
Messages
17,897
Location
大同
And game don't have to be fun.
we're now entering levels of cope that shouldn't be possible
Was main character of that Elysium adventure fun? Complete train wreck of self-loathing detective.
If we use fun loosely as to mean enjoyable (for the player), sure. As for DAO, the Deep Roads were meh. But they only detract a bit from what otherwise remains an enjoyable experience.

Games don't have to be 'fun' in the happy go lucky sense, but they certainly have to be enjoyable. Otherwise why would you bother with them?
 

Delterius

Arcane
Joined
Dec 12, 2012
Messages
15,956
Location
Entre a serra e o mar.
over-ambitious

I agree. IMO if they had tonned down the mythic paths to lets say 4, the undead mythic path, the celestial mythic path, the legend mythic path and the primal mythic path with variants only in late stages(eg - chaotic celestials become azata, lawful angels, lawful undeads become liches and chaotic vampires), the game would be way better.

Lets hope that their next game will have no mythic paths, at best racial templates.
Nah, it's good that it's over ambitious. Owlcat is a young studio. Let them try to do way too much. We'll get the 'competent, lean but somewhat uninspired' Pathfinder adaptation out of them in 2028.

Plus cut my Trickster path and I'm gonna metaphorically gut ya.
 

volklore

Arcane
Joined
Jun 19, 2018
Messages
1,639
Done with Azata sorcerer run on Hard. Ended Sorcerer 18/Alchemist 2(taken at lvl 19-20 for cognatogen)

Late game (act5 + threshold) was a cake walk : basically walk into a room, commander wins initiative, cast weird, repeat - Only mobs immune to mind-affecting are Gallus, so I had to quicken Dismisal for them. For the record, I had only 1 spell focus in abjuration, so even without mythics feats and abusing the expanded arsenal bug, you can hit your spells on 95 percent of mobs on hard in the late game if you target their weak saves and debuff a little. Only fight that took more than one round was areelu, because I had to dispell her a couple times and hit a touch of madness on her before I could pass her Phantasmal killer saves. And I didn't even really lean into the expanded arsenal bug (it did gave me like 2-3 DC inevitably but I did avoid taking more mythic spell focus to avoid it stacking too much). And that's also with most of Azata DC boosting stuff being broken (no Will DC on ode to miraculous magic and Believe in yourself give 3-4 less charisma that it should). I don't remember who in this thread said spellcasters were weak but that's riddiculous. That said looking at the immunities accross the game, I felt of all the big immunities Mind-affecting was the most lacking on bosses. All of the end game bosses weren't immune. So I killed, baphomet, deskari, HoI and areelu all of them with P:K/weird which while satisfying feels cheap. I'd love owlcat to mix it up and leave one or two immunities open on each fight (along with have maybe one of them with all immunities) to force strategy switch. But even then immunities matter very little for boss fights since you can get the grandmaster's rod from finnean's quest which makes spells modified by it ignore all immunites. As far as party goes I ran Regill multiclassed into primalist to get pounce, a Bard merc (armored) as main tank that ended being a sidegrade to what I could have done with Seelah, Arue leveled in her base class, Ember leveled in her base class and Sosiel also pure as a domain spam bot. So nothing fancy, no potion archmage, no Oracle Scaled fist charisma double dips or any crazy dip. The craziest thing was my regill build (bloodrager primalist for pounce, guarded stance, mage armor and 1 monk level when I saw the lawful evil monk robe in A4 - Bloodrage being flat damage bonus make it scale really well with regill's high number of attacks) but he never really needed to tank since my MC was controlling the whole battlefield so it was un-necesarry. Really enjoyed the spellcaster experience from start to finish overall and the enemies generally furnished immunity list made it all the more fun as it wasn't possible to rely on a few tricks like you could in kingmaker, at least in the first 4 acts of the game.

Act1 was bad narratively but had cool early game DnD goodness - Act 2-3-4 are really the strong core of the game imo. Act 2 and 3 are more like kingmaker acts which is good and are both really competent midgame acts. act 4 is the perfect mid to late game act, It was my favorite part of the game by far. Good and varied encounters and the best story moments. The city was really cool, and I actually liked the camera gimmick. I was struggling a bit at the start and by the end of the act, I had muscle memory of every camera position for every bridge in the city which I assume was what they were going for. Act 5 was a lot more boring, and I assume the fact that it was such a cakewalk is what ruined it for me because Iz and ivory prison are not terrible dungies. But I did get to feel like powerful Wazzard and a living god so there's that.

Rest restritcions and management layer were worse than kingmaker. The thing I loved about kingdom management in kingmaker is how it was tied to the rest restrictions and how it was always better to be fast and efficient dealing with problems to keep the kingdom going well. Plus the looming threat of the game over, however far fetched, was always a good motivator to keep pushing on thin resources. In wrath they replaced that with corruption, and corruption is both a bit too generous (if you have a good lore:religion guy) and more annoying. It's basically another PoE style supply system. When coruption get too high, high tail it back to drezen rest there and come back. Not many dungeons lock you in, so you are rarely forced to stay and even then the game generously gives ways on cleansing corruption through hand placed interractables in dungeons. Crusade mode is boring and maybe if mage generals weren't so OP you could get into game over scenarios ? I am not sure. Attacking enemy armies aren't numerous or strong enough for that I think. And kingdom stats don't seem to do anything except giving you some better ending slides. So all in all, a downgrade for me.

As far as Azata path, I am not sure I really like the path vibe but it has some good things going for it. The fact that it ties into the devil mythic path is nice and that you lose some spells depending on wether or not you follow the true azata path is also good. The slave market rampage was the highlight there for me. Playing chaotic (which I usually doesn't do ) also was a nice change roleplay wise and quite well fitting for the setting. I didn't really feel pushed into a direction or another except trying to avoid lawful option. The changing nature of Azatas and the chaotic alignment made for a nice freedom in choices. Aivu was cute and mostly fun, but she doesn't offer much mechanically apart from the fact she gets to have dispell magic greater(and she has very high Caster level so she's great at dispelling). She gets a bunch of support spells although she gets them a bit too late. By that time I had that covered by other characters. Superpowers are great although favorable magic was really all I needed. Life bonding frienship is also great in a pinch and probably would make any unfair run a lot easier (even though it didn't help me that much, because by the time I got it, the end of act 4 was nigh and I was already crowd controlling entire screens of enemy in one turn). Mythic level progression is kinda fucked, the game need one more mythic level in the middle of act 3 at least to fix the curve a little bit.

Writing can go from very cringe to serviceable to good in a few minutes, but overall quality is about the same as kingmaker. Companion are alright, warmed up to some of them quite a lot, but nothing earthshattering. Regill is great, Camelia's gimmick is fun, I even warmed to up to Sosiel because he's one of the only good companions who doesn't immediately tell you to give up your powers once iomedae decides to get her ass off her gilded throne. Even the voice acting could be decent at some moments, specifically in the Baphomet encounter in the Midnight Isles.

Overall big mess of a game but a really fun mess. I hope owclat makes more. I haven't decided what run I'll do next either a melee character and another mythic path (I was thinking Primalist Bloorage Lich so do some kind of DR stacking life leaching warrior) or another spell caster run on unfair although I would like to avoid merged spellbooks because I hate the concept (so probably Diviner Trickster or Demon).
 
Last edited:

Sunri

Liturgist
Joined
Apr 16, 2020
Messages
2,747
Location
Poland
zkmSHVo.png

Damm evil Aru looks super random whats wrong with her favored enemy i guess she just hates manlets lol
 

purupuru

Learned
Joined
Nov 2, 2019
Messages
414
Too many trash mobs for my taste.
I don't disagree, though the same can be said about many other areas in DAO. At least Deep Roads have dwarven ruins not generic medieval villiage #114517.
Maybe then someone would tell Owlcat designers that 8 attacks each round > 1 crappy spell that fails 95% of the time.
You make a martial character who attacks 8 time per round and somehow his spellcasting power is not as good as his martial prowess. I don't think there is anything wrong with that. If you need everything to be as overpowered as lich/angel/legend to have fun then I must say we have very different interpretations of fun.
 

Cryomancer

Arcane
Glory to Ukraine
Joined
Jul 11, 2019
Messages
14,476
Location
Frostfell
I don't remember who in this thread said spellcasters were weak but that's riddiculous

People compare pure roleplay caster builds with tryhard min maxed pun pun martial builds to say it. I wish that there was a mp focused only in illusion.

Trickster path

Interesting how magic users here in Codex tends to like chaotic mythic paths.

whats wrong with her favored enemy i guess she just hates manlets lol

Nobody likes manlets. And she worked in a brothel, she had so many large demon dicks inside her that she probably can't fell anything with a dwarf.

but she doesn't offer much mechanically apart from the fact she gets to have dispell magic greater(and she has very high Caster level so she's great at dispelling).

She is amazing in buffing too. Mainly at end game. She can cast resist magic and give 46 SR(35 caster level + 11). She has a amazing breath attack and you can mount on her.
 

Delterius

Arcane
Joined
Dec 12, 2012
Messages
15,956
Location
Entre a serra e o mar.
You make a martial character who attacks 8 time per round and somehow his spellcasting power is not as good as his martial prowess. I don't think there is anything wrong with that. If you need everything to be as overpowered as lich/angel/legend to have fun then I must say we have very different interpretations of fun.
The irony is that because of how mythic spellbooks work, particularly because of how dispels work, it might not matter if he was playing a Sorcerer with DC buffing Arcanas out the wazoo. Without merging certain mythic spellbooks, at certain points of the game, just lose a lot of their utility.

The best dispeller in the game is probably Trickster atm.
Interesting how magic users here in Codex tends to like chaotic mythic paths.
I like Fey.
 
Last edited:

Volourn

Pretty Princess
Pretty Princess Glory to Ukraine
Joined
Mar 10, 2003
Messages
24,924
"Alas, it seems that he won't return from his (now) self-imposed exile."

Not 'self exile'. This is the fault of the idiot who banned him and the hypocrisy of Codex claiming it is for 'freedom' when it is just as nazish as anyone.

He just mad ethe chocie of not posting where he was told he was wanted.

Me? I'm an asshole so I'm no easily perturbed. R00fles!
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom