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Gloomhaven - roguelike dungeon-crawling adaptation of the board game

Joined
Jul 8, 2006
Messages
2,964
the creator of the game is sorry about having racist orcs included in the game bTW..they won't be in Frosthaven I guess, he hir
I really don't like deck-buiding-based games - not that I've had a lot of experience with them - so while I was initially intrigued by this game, that's a deal-breaker for me.
I wouldn't call Gloomhaven a deck building game in the same way as something like Hand of Fate or Slay the Spire because you don't draw random hands. The card pools are very small, and only around ten cards, varying by class, get taken into each mission. You select your "hand" of available actions as the last step before starting combat. When you use the actions they become unavailable until you rest, at which point one goes away for the rest of the fight and the others come back. Items work similarly, but they all refresh when you rest unless they go away when used. It is more of a resource management game than a deck builder.

Okay I might have fed you one little white-lie: there is a deck you modify and randomly pull from, but it's only for random damage because rolling dice hurts eurogamers' dainty wrists.
I never understand people who think cards replacing dice is somehow better when they are used as a way to generate a random number. Using a card is just a way to get a much less random number than using actual dice.

If the goal is to generate a random number, then dice are superior to cards always, and I don't see how it could be any other way...some people (especially certain Euro Gamers it seems like maybe) don't understand RNG and simply have the reaction that any RNG with dice is 'bad' and not 'strategic' and means you are just relying on 'luck' or something.

These idiots make me rage and also are a cause of decline IMO, but I guess this has been talked about other places before...anyway the game looks nice, I can't decide if I would like it or not yet...
The point is that over the levels your rolling deck is tweaked according to your class. Thus, melee hitters end up with a bunch of +2/+3 or +1 Armor 2, while support classes get +1 DoT or +1 Heal cards. You can also permanently remove negative cards. So overall you can make your deck go from averaging +0 to averaging +2 or so. My high level Hatchett would always hit even if it was for 1 damage, for example, which was great for AoE abilities and debuffs.

If these were dice instead of cards the game would sell for $300, like Too Many Bones does.
I see, that makes sense.

Although I have to admit I do think the 'dice builder' thing is pretty awesome, especially if it had cooler looking dice than seems to come w/ 'Too Many Bones' and lest cartoony art...I would be a sucker for such a game.
 

Grunker

RPG Codex Ghost
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The problem is having friends to play the tabletop version with. You can comfortably play the digital version as a party of four alone. It's sad when you think about that statement too much, but hey, it works.

you don’t know 3 people who want to play a board game let alone a pc game with you? Now I’m sad.

Though… how can you get people to play your shitty homebrew campaign setting but not a coop board/PC game?
 
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Grunker

RPG Codex Ghost
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That's not the point - you can gather players enough for homebrew D&D, but don't know 3 people to play a boardgame with? Not even 3 people for a coop video game? Makes no sense.
 

Lacrymas

Arcane
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Sep 23, 2015
Messages
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Pathfinder: Wrath
That's not the point - you can gather players enough for homebrew D&D, but don't know 3 people to play a boardgame with? Not even 3 people for a coop video game? Makes no sense.
Kind of? Let's pretend I'm not in Germany and not a hermit, I do know 4 people who would do it, but 2 of them don't speak to each other and don't live in the same city as me. The other two are more ....available, I even play the digital version with one of them, but you have to have a schedule every week to finish anything and I don't know if that's going to work.
 

Grunker

RPG Codex Ghost
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Also, I think this might be one of the very few select games I’d actually like to play with Codexers. It’s fairly difficult and nerdy and lends itself well to sessions where you don’t have to talk about anything but game-related stuff.

So if I didn’t have a group I’d probably ask if people like Jaedar and Roxor (I.e. Codexers I can suffer) would be up for it. Might be an option?
 

Parabalus

Arcane
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Mar 23, 2015
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What's the progression in the campaign like?

Seemingly if you die you lose nothing, but if you complete a mission in a less than optimal way, e.g., miss a chest, it's gone forever?
 

Red Hexapus

Learned
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Apr 28, 2019
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The Land of Potato
What's the progression in the campaign like?

Seemingly if you die you lose nothing, but if you complete a mission in a less than optimal way, e.g., miss a chest, it's gone forever?

This is from Tabletop rules, but apparently video game is mostly faithful to the original. If you complete a mission, you can always do it again and get the chest. Sometimes replaying a scenario is necessary for personal quests (kill certain enemies, do certain missions). It's possible to lock yourself out of some rewards/equipment because of the branching missions or choices in the city/road events.
 

Arbaces

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Also, I think this might be one of the very few select games I’d actually like to play with Codexers. It’s fairly difficult and nerdy and lends itself well to sessions where you don’t have to talk about anything but game-related stuff.

So if I didn’t have a group I’d probably ask if people like Jaedar and Roxor (I.e. Codexers I can suffer) would be up for it. Might be an option?
I wasn't considering buying this since I play the board game twice weekly, but your post made me realize I could probably find a more cut-throat group of players online. The game is designed around hidden information. However, my IRL groups are very hug-boxy. We almost never exhaust our characters, and even more infrequently fail a mission, despite playing one or two difficulty levels above recommended.

It would be more interesting to play with antisocial, loot-stealing bastards from the internet.
 

Lacrymas

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2015
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Pathfinder: Wrath
You can't really steal loot in the digital version because gold is kept in a communal pool and everyone can buy stuff with it.
 

Grunker

RPG Codex Ghost
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Lacrymas why are you spreading :fakenews: ? :outrage:

While communal loot is indeed true for the sandbox Guildmaster mode, the actual Campaign adheres almost completely to the board game rules. This includes characters having individual gold. I play with 3 dudes and a chick, and yesterday the chick playing the scoundrel did a pretty epic gold steal from under our noses.

Here's an almost exhaustive list of the only differences between digital and board game versions. As you can see, it is very little:



How would we play the tabletop version online?

Why does it have to be the tabletop version..?

Although the answer to your question is Tabletop Simulator. But I have no idea why you'd do that with the digital version released.
 
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Lacrymas

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Pathfinder: Wrath
I haven't played the campaign yet, so I thought it's the same as in Guildmaster mode ;d
Why does it have to be the tabletop version..?
Because that's what we were talking about? I can find people to play the digital version, obviously.
 

Grunker

RPG Codex Ghost
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Ah, then you can ignore my posts completely. I misunderstood from the beginning.

I dunno why you would though. I've played both, and I'll certainly be spending my board game time on other good board games from now on. The digital version is superior in most ways, and there are plenty of good board games vying for attention when I prioritize and make time for playing in person. So even if I thought the board game version was slightly better I'd probably still play digital to make room for other board games without excellent digital versions.
 
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Infinitron

I post news
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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
https://www.pcgamer.com/uk/gloomhaven-review/

GLOOMHAVEN REVIEW
The classic dungeon-crawling tabletop adventure is very comfortable in its new digital home.

Gloomhaven is surely the most widely-praised hobby board game of the past decade. The digital edition replicates the sprawling Gloomhaven campaign in its entirety, adds an entirely new second mode, Guildmaster, along with online multiplayer: An adaptation of the tabletop experience that leaves nothing behind. While it's impossible to replicate the magic of sitting around a table, designing it to work on a screen provides things a boxed board game never would. Nonetheless, occasionally poor performance, the lack of a few quality of life features, and a liberal sprinkling of bugs hold Gloomhaven back.

It's a dungeon crawler at heart, where stories of fantasy and adventure read by a gravelly Scottish narrator sit alongside tactical missions that take adventurers through a series of rooms and monsters to accomplish fairly simple objectives. Everything in between quests is a 'choose your own adventure', where decisions are made and give static bonuses or penalties to either the campaign as a whole or the next adventure. The writing isn't its strong suit—this isn't Baldur's Gate by any stretch—but the voiced narration adds some meat to the bones of these stories. The simple campaign mode is engaging enough to keep you coming back night after night as you chart a fantasy epic, building up the town of Gloomhaven and watching your adventurers level up, retire, and get replaced by fresh blood.

Guildmaster mode is new to Gloomhaven, and something that should tempt even a tabletop veteran, as is the built-in level designer and modding support. While it's perfectly fun to play with friends, Guildmaster is in truth a purpose-built way to experience all of Gloomhaven by yourself. It's not voiced, and the story is a lot looser, but it has its own upsides: Your characters never retire, so you can tinker with them to your heart's content, and the scenarios are randomized, letting you do similar crawls multiple times without literally replaying the same setups. Both modes can be played by yourself controlling one to four adventurers, or with up to three others controlling one each.

Dungeons are card-driven tactical battles, some of the best you can find, that use a flexible system where you choose two cards per adventurer each turn, then execute the action from the top half of one card and the bottom of the other. Monsters attacks play out simply, no complex AI here, but each round is planned in advance so you don't know what the monsters are going to do until you've locked in your options. Each card also has a numerical value, its initiative, which is when you act in the round. Weirdly, the AI often takes quite a while to determine its action after you move—odd, given that it's entirely deterministic behavior.

So for a given round, your Tinkerer might pick their Stun Shot for initiative 20, which is a long-range stun attack on top and a four space move on the bottom, and their flamethrower, an area of effect burn weapon on top and a shield aura on the bottom. That combo of two cards can come out to two very different turns: A rush forward to roast some enemies, or a stunning shot to a tough enemy and a defensive buff to nearby allies. As you use cards they're either discarded or burned. Burned cards leave the game for the rest of your adventure, while discarded cards are eventually returned to your hand—at the cost of burning a discarded card forever. Run out of cards or health and you're taken out of the fight for the rest of the mission.

These fairly simple rules make fights into a slew of tough tactical choices and tight time limits. Missions are hard, and even the easy difficulty can and will beat tactics veterans into a pulp. A single misplayed card can set you on the path to doom in some scenarios: burning a powerful ability early might feel good, but what if that's the power you needed to grab the loot or knock out the last few enemies fast enough? It's some of the best tactical play in gaming, and some of the most delightfully difficult choices you'll ever make in a dungeon crawler. If that doesn't sound like enough, there are 17 playable classes with their own unique mechanics and decks of cards.

Bafflingly, Gloomhaven doesn't have an undo button. What should be easy-to-fix mistakes like moving one hex off, selecting the wrong ability, or misclicking to pass on an ability are impossible to take back. Misunderstanding the rules can be extremely frustrating, and there's no comprehensive rulebook in the menus. It's absolutely bizarre that I had to consult the tabletop rulebook to be sure I understood mechanics: When is my character's combat deck shuffled? What does that little flippy arrow mean? None of this is clear.

Nonetheless, the campaign is a blast with friends and far faster than a boxed game. Four hours at the table will get you a single dungeon, with its encounters before and after, played. Four hours in the digital campaign will let quick players plow through as many as three dungeons. If you feast on this kind of tactical play like I do, and if you're very happy to let the computer handle the little details, then Gloomhaven's ruggedly narrated adventures are exactly what you want from the genre. It's the thing all good tabletop adaptations should have: A reason why I'd play this rather than sit around a table.

THE VERDICT
87

GLOOMHAVEN
It's still one of the best dungeon crawlers ever made, but now it's on PC.
 

Whisper

Arcane
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Feb 29, 2012
Messages
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I dont like "walking dead" scenaries that are plenty.
Used too many skills in first figth? Well in last fight you will auto-lose since you run out of cards to play.
 

Parabalus

Arcane
Joined
Mar 23, 2015
Messages
17,445
https://www.pcgamer.com/uk/gloomhaven-review/

Misunderstanding the rules can be extremely frustrating, and there's no comprehensive rulebook in the menus. It's absolutely bizarre that I had to consult the tabletop rulebook to be sure I understood mechanics: When is my character's combat deck shuffled? What does that little flippy arrow mean? None of this is clear.

To absolutely no one's surprise, there's a huge HOW TO PLAY button in the main menu, and all of this is explained in detail there. It's also mentioned in the tutorial.
 

Grunker

RPG Codex Ghost
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Used too many skills in first figth? Well in last fight you will auto-lose since you run out of cards to play.

git gud

https://www.pcgamer.com/uk/gloomhaven-review/

Misunderstanding the rules can be extremely frustrating, and there's no comprehensive rulebook in the menus. It's absolutely bizarre that I had to consult the tabletop rulebook to be sure I understood mechanics: When is my character's combat deck shuffled? What does that little flippy arrow mean? None of this is clear.

To absolutely no one's surprise, there's a huge HOW TO PLAY button in the main menu, and all of this is explained in detail there. It's also mentioned in the tutorial.

If you can't wrap your head around Gloomhaven with the amount of help it gives you, there's no hope for you. You even have stuff like line-of-sight hotkeys etc. I admit that there are a small number of edge cases where you wonder, but either you find out from experimentation or you literally google that edge case and the answer is right on top.

 

Parabalus

Arcane
Joined
Mar 23, 2015
Messages
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Used too many skills in first figth? Well in last fight you will auto-lose since you run out of cards to play.

git gud

https://www.pcgamer.com/uk/gloomhaven-review/

Misunderstanding the rules can be extremely frustrating, and there's no comprehensive rulebook in the menus. It's absolutely bizarre that I had to consult the tabletop rulebook to be sure I understood mechanics: When is my character's combat deck shuffled? What does that little flippy arrow mean? None of this is clear.

To absolutely no one's surprise, there's a huge HOW TO PLAY button in the main menu, and all of this is explained in detail there. It's also mentioned in the tutorial.

If you can't wrap your head around Gloomhaven with the amount of help it gives you, there's no hope for you. You even have stuff like line-of-sight hotkeys etc. I admit that there are a small number of edge cases where you wonder, but either you find out from experimentation or you literally google that edge case and the answer is right on top.

Do you consider the game easy?
 

Grunker

RPG Codex Ghost
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Absolutely not. It's a breath of minty fresh difficulty air, especially if you play with your retarded friends. But easy to learn with the tools at your disposal? Definetely.

Case in point: I play this with one other "gamer friend" and two other friends, one of which is the girlfriend of the gamer-dude. Suffice it to say, she is not good at games at all. Does she suck? Yes. Did she completely understand how to play the game after the tutorial? Also yes. Can she look up an edge case when she stumbles on it? Absolutely.
 
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Salvo

Arcane
Joined
Mar 6, 2017
Messages
1,395
I want to like this game but I abhor how time-restricted you are due to reaching card exhaustion fairly quickly. I also recognize that the game is very well polished, and probably also well-balanced, but it's just not my cup of tea.

I would still suggest giving it a go to see if you like it, because if you do you'll find yourself with a deep and engaging game that will last you for some time.
 

Lacrymas

Arcane
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Pathfinder: Wrath
This is a good example of time restriction because you have control over it and it seems natural.
 

Salvo

Arcane
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Mar 6, 2017
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This is a good example of time restriction because you have control over it and it seems natural.
Not really, since your enemies aren't subject to it...
 

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