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Deutsche Qualität: will the renewal of the quality gaming industry come from Germany?

JarlFrank

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Germany as a country is gaming's great underachiever. Demographically and economically, there should be a German equivalent of Ubisoft, but there just isn't. It'd be an interesting research topic to figure out why.

We Germans aren't allowed to have fun or develop fun things. It's work. Work hard. Earn lots of money. Pay lots of taxes. Be on time. Produce good things. That can be used to produce more good things.

That's why Germany is the world's largest producer and consumer of Work Simulation Games.

Games made by Germans, for Germans: farming sims, railway sims, bus driving sims, street cleaning sims, woodcutting sims, mining sims, factory sims...
 

toughasnails

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Since the OP poked, I'll ask this.
I'm wondering, given the cliches about German work ethics and perfectionism, how come so many of their games end up so janky, clunky, technically messy and so on? While there are some outliers, when people talk about "Eurojank" they mostly have German games in mind, Slavjank being its own world. So how come? Given the cliches about Germans, shouldn't be producing games with the sort of all-around polish you see in Japanese titles?
 

Cunt Dickula!?

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That clichee might still be true for some craftsmen and engineers but especially the german IT sector is dominated by lazy, inept and sloppy people.
 

JarlFrank

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Apart from the "work sim" genre, the other genres I associate the German game industry with are:
- city builders/management games
- adventure games

Both these genres have produced a lot of good games in the 90s and still do.
Daedalic is one of the biggest adventure game developers and publishers today. Their Deponia series was popular, and they made some good Dark Eye adventures (Chains of Satinav, Memoria). They also branched out into strategy/RPG with Blackguards.
Same with King Art. They started with really solid adventure games (Book of Unwritten Tales) and followed it with strategy games (Battle World Kronos, Iron Harvest). Battle World Kronos was inspired by an earlier German turn based strategy series called Battle Isle.

The Settlers series, now owned by Ubisoft, was a German invention. There were several Settlers-inspired games made in Germany too, like Knights and Merchants, Die Völker, Cultures.

Economy management games are a very German genre. Anything with spreadsheets is our thing. We even had some erotic management games like Biing! because the German's primary sexual fantasy is to be a successful manager and fuck his hot secretary.

Of course, none of these genres are particularly mainstream. Germans have always been PC gamers, so big AAA multiplatform console games aren't really our thing. We've always been more into PC games: strategy, management, adventure. Sometimes RPGs, and when German devs do try their hands at RPGs, the result is usually good: the Realms of Arkania series from the 90s, Piranha Bytes' action RPGs, the Drakensang games, Blackguards. But they're not exactly mainstream blockbusters either, and tend to be developed for PC first (remember the utterly abysmal console port of the first Risen? LMAO), targeted at a niche audience rather than the big mainstream masses. Therefore, our gaming industry is never going to be as big as that of France, the UK, or the US, where the focus is on big multiplatform releases.

Even our most mainstream developer, Crytek, started out as the dev making PC-only powerhouse games that pushed the hardware of computers at the time. When they smelled the money and turned towards consoles, the quality of their games sank and so did their popularity.
 

1451

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We heard that you like working so we made working simulators so you can work even when you're resting.:troll:
 

Infinitron

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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Daedalic is one of the biggest adventure game developers and publishers today. Their Deponia series was popular, and they made some good Dark Eye adventures (Chains of Satinav, Memoria). They also branched out into strategy/RPG with Blackguards.
Same with King Art. They started with really solid adventure games (Book of Unwritten Tales) and followed it with strategy games (Battle World Kronos, Iron Harvest). Battle World Kronos was inspired by an earlier German turn based strategy series called Battle Isle.

was
decline.png
 

JarlFrank

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Daedalic is one of the biggest adventure game developers and publishers today. Their Deponia series was popular, and they made some good Dark Eye adventures (Chains of Satinav, Memoria). They also branched out into strategy/RPG with Blackguards.
Same with King Art. They started with really solid adventure games (Book of Unwritten Tales) and followed it with strategy games (Battle World Kronos, Iron Harvest). Battle World Kronos was inspired by an earlier German turn based strategy series called Battle Isle.

was
decline.png

Oh right. They make interactive movies now or whatever the fuck.
 

Tavar

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Germany as a country is gaming's great underachiever. Demographically and economically, there should be a German equivalent of Ubisoft, but there just isn't. It'd be an interesting research topic to figure out why.
There used by a lot of at least double AA studios in Germany around in the late 90s / early 00s. Most of them collapsed during the 00s as well as most of the bigger publisher. One of the big reasons was that many studios neglected the console market and only produced for PC. This was fine for a time as Germany was big enough to support that business model, but prevented them from breaking into any console dominated markets like the US and from accruing enough money for a safety net. Their margins were so thin that one commercial failure usually meant the end. Today the biggest studios in Germany are Bigpoint and Innogames and they make browser / mobile games. Talk about decline.

Since the OP poked, I'll ask this.
I'm wondering, given the cliches about German work ethics and perfectionism, how come so many of their games end up so janky, clunky, technically messy and so on? While there are some outliers, when people talk about "Eurojank" they mostly have German games in mind, Slavjank being its own world. So how come? Given the cliches about Germans, shouldn't be producing games with the sort of all-around polish you see in Japanese titles?
What games do you mean specfically? Games like Gothic were made by small, extremely ambitious teams with poor planning and leadership. The amount of worked overtime was insane and burnt a lot of developers. Most of the talent of the 90s has quit the games industry at least 15 years ago simply because they were fed up with poor pay and long hours. Naturally, you also end with lots of bugs in this scenario especially if your huge turnover prevents you from actually learning from your mistakes.
 

Fedora Master

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Germany as a country is gaming's great underachiever. Demographically and economically, there should be a German equivalent of Ubisoft, but there just isn't. It'd be an interesting research topic to figure out why.

When I say "Germany doesn't understand the Internet" I am not joking. You have to really grasp what this means for any company dealing with computer technology over here. Not only are we burdened with idiotic laws and terrible infrastructure, we also lack the basic education to use computers. Anyone who IS proficient with IT can get a better job than making games in their garage.
 

Dodo1610

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So many german studios have been successful...... at self-destruction:
Ascaron(Anstoß, Sacred, Patrizier): Wanted to turn Sacred 2 into the ultimate big-budget Diablo killer but couldn't actually ship the finished product

Radon Labs(Drakensang): Drakensang 2 was critically acclaimed and loved by its fans but their decision to heavily invest into full voice acting and cutscenes meant the game had to be successful outside Germany which it wasn't + their side business of making low budget NDS titles died when smartphones became popular.

Spellbound(Desperados, Robin Hood, Arcania)Had success in the early 2000s with real-time tactics but wanted to grow and make RPGs so they made Arcania hoping for money in order to fund their steampunk RPG Ravensdale which didn't work out...

Phenomic(Spellforce, Battleforge) Spellforce 1+2 were both really popular with their fairly unique mix of RTS and RPG. They were bought by EA so that they could make the strategy MMO Spellforce was originally supposed to be. Battleforge was card-based which meant that it was one of the early attempts at adding Microtransactions for a full-price video game.

This is why I think Piranha Bytes greatest strength is budgeting thanks to their manager Michale Rüve. Though He isn't really involved with making their games, he made sure that despite missteps they managed to survive. PB doesn't really try to grow in order to make big-budget games and instead are able to make 60h+ open-world RPGs with a team of 30. It's funny that so many complain that PB has been making the same game for 20 years when so many other studios that tried new things and failed either getting dissolved or losing what made them great.
 
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Zed Duke of Banville

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"Nooo these germans don't have the aryan certificate reeee."

Jesus Christ, cuckdex.
joke-dumb.gif


I've played Suzerain and made numerous posts in its thread.

Germany as a country is gaming's great underachiever. Demographically and economically, there should be a German equivalent of Ubisoft, but there just isn't. It'd be an interesting research topic to figure out why.
German game development never recovered from the demise of the Commodore Amiga. :M
 

Zarniwoop

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Shadorwun: Hong Kong
This. If the German game industry gets its wish and gets access to tax money simliar to the German film industry we can look foward to more "educational" trash games like "Through the Darkest of Times". If not, we will keep the current state of boring mediocrity.
They already have access to tax money. The German government is funding at least one game, X4.
 

Atlantico

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German game development never recovered from the demise of the Commodore Amiga.

The beautiful thing about game development at that time, was the ability of 3-6 people creating a AAA game for the time.

Silmarils was like three guys or something.

Now a team of 30 people is small and quaint.
 

Blutwurstritter

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Apart from the "work sim" genre, the other genres I associate the German game industry with are:
- city builders/management games
- adventure games

Both these genres have produced a lot of good games in the 90s and still do.
Daedalic is one of the biggest adventure game developers and publishers today. Their Deponia series was popular, and they made some good Dark Eye adventures (Chains of Satinav, Memoria). They also branched out into strategy/RPG with Blackguards.
Same with King Art. They started with really solid adventure games (Book of Unwritten Tales) and followed it with strategy games (Battle World Kronos, Iron Harvest). Battle World Kronos was inspired by an earlier German turn based strategy series called Battle Isle.

The Settlers series, now owned by Ubisoft, was a German invention. There were several Settlers-inspired games made in Germany too, like Knights and Merchants, Die Völker, Cultures.

Economy management games are a very German genre. Anything with spreadsheets is our thing. We even had some erotic management games like Biing! because the German's primary sexual fantasy is to be a successful manager and fuck his hot secretary.

Of course, none of these genres are particularly mainstream. Germans have always been PC gamers, so big AAA multiplatform console games aren't really our thing. We've always been more into PC games: strategy, management, adventure. Sometimes RPGs, and when German devs do try their hands at RPGs, the result is usually good: the Realms of Arkania series from the 90s, Piranha Bytes' action RPGs, the Drakensang games, Blackguards. But they're not exactly mainstream blockbusters either, and tend to be developed for PC first (remember the utterly abysmal console port of the first Risen? LMAO), targeted at a niche audience rather than the big mainstream masses. Therefore, our gaming industry is never going to be as big as that of France, the UK, or the US, where the focus is on big multiplatform releases.

Even our most mainstream developer, Crytek, started out as the dev making PC-only powerhouse games that pushed the hardware of computers at the time. When they smelled the money and turned towards consoles, the quality of their games sank and so did their popularity.
The Anno series also fits into the list. I never played it so I'm not up-to-date; does it still exist or has it also died ? I know that Blue Byte became part of Ubisoft at some point so I'm not sure if its even a German game at this point.
 

Cromwell

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Anyone who IS proficient with IT can get a better job than making games in their garage.

There also is a large amount of people and small firms who think they know something about IT and if you have to work with them you probably contemplate suicide after a the first few months. It cant be overstated how retarded this country is when it comes to IT and by how much everyone overestimates their own knowledge and skills. That also goes for pretty much every other sector in germany which means that further hinders any real progress in any given field which also includes games.
 

Blutwurstritter

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The low degree of competence regarding IT does not really explain why there aren't game developers in my opinion. There are people that could do it and as private firms they would not be hindered that much by the lack of it in other fields. But developing games is just not seen as a proper job with the chance to have a career. Its much easier and lucrative to get a job in the financial sector and insurance sector as someone with an IT/data analysis background. And you'll have a good and secure income. Even as someone who has not a direct IT background, I got offers. I'd guess that people with proper IT background get even better conditions. I don't know how far spread it truly is, but I also know that some large firms are looking to revert some of their IT outsourcing. I know cases where the IT administration is sitting entirely in India, and people have to contact them when they want to install something in a rather frustrating process. I'd guess that this also absorbs a lot of people and decreases the pool of possibly competent developers further.
 

d1r

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Germany as a country is gaming's great underachiever.

Italy.

Demographically and economically, there should be a German equivalent of Ubisoft, but there just isn't. It'd be an interesting research topic to figure out why.

Hazarding a guess:
Germany is eternally opposed to progress.
The first railways here were heavily opposed.
They were said to be bring diseases due to the high speed, and brain damage from too fast transportation. The railway itself was called a thing of hell.

Also there is the culture of seriousness that Peachcurl mentioned. Rat Tower studios has a similar problem in Austra, it is hard to get funding for something silly like a video game here.

Add on to that that Germany is generally in the digitial stone age.
"The internet is new grounds for all of us" - Merkel in 2013

And you got a bunch of reasons why it is hard to develop video games in Germany.

Probably also has something to do with the fact, that Germans in general are no great entertainers, respectively our entertainment branch is hot garbage.

Then again, there is also the high probability, that other firms are just stealing the talent, or that German developers want to join other big name companies, rather than joining some no name companies in Germany working on Farming Simulators, Junk RPG's or Mobile Phone Games. Creating a gaming studio today, even with the help of subventions from the governent will still lead you nowhere if you don't have the (creative) talent, which 95% of the Germans
(and 100% of the fucking Canadians)
lack.
 
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JarlFrank

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So many german studios have been successful...... at self-destruction:
Ascaron(Anstoß, Sacred, Patrizier): Wanted to turn Sacred 2 into the ultimate big-budget Diablo killer but couldn't actually ship the finished product

Radon Labs(Drakensang): Drakensang 2 was critically acclaimed and loved by its fans but their decision to heavily invest into full voice acting and cutscenes meant the game had to be successful outside Germany which it wasn't + their side business of making low budget NDS titles died when smartphones became popular.

Spellbound(Desperados, Robin Hood, Arcania)Had success in the early 2000s with real-time tactics but wanted to grow and make RPGs so they made Arcania hoping for money in order to fund their steampunk RPG Ravensdale which didn't work out...

Phenomic(Spellforce, Battleforge) Spellforce 1+2 were both really popular with their fairly unique mix of RTS and RPG. They were bought by EA so that they could make the strategy MMO Spellforce was originally supposed to be. Battleforge was card-based which meant that it was one of the early attempts at adding Microtransactions for a full-price video game.

This is why I think Piranha Bytes greatest strength is budgeting thanks to their manager Michale Rüve. Though He isn't really involved with making their games, he made sure that despite missteps they managed to survive. PB doesn't really try to grow in order to make big-budget games and instead are able to make 60h+ open-world RPGs with a team of 30. It's funny that so many complain that PB has been making the same game for 20 years when so many other studios that tried new things and failed either getting dissolved or losing what made them great.

Yeah, the main complaint about PB is actually their greatest strength. They keep making the same game... but by this point they know how to make that game, despite a few missteps (Risen 2 and 3 veered a bit too far from the classic Gothic formula and were meh). The fans keep buying the games because they know what to expect. If you want a game that plays like Gothic, just grab any Piranha Bytes title and you're good. You know what to expect, and they won't disappoint you with any dumb experiments. Sometimes their new game is a worse Gothic, sometimes it's a better Gothic, but it's always recognizable as a Gothic.

They didn't have a major dud yet because they never tried to change the formula in a major way. While Risen 2 had a different structure, the core gameplay was still Gothic. That's why their core audience of Germans and Polaks never stopped buying them.
Meanwhile the ones that failed all strayed from the formula to chase a bigger mainstream audience, or over-budgeted and HAD to reach a bigger mainstream audience to break even, and that's why they failed.
 

JarlFrank

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Zeit says that Germany has historically given out almost no subventions to gaming related projects, and that the big subvention packet finalised in 2019 has only given 5% of its funds to devs yet, because the paperwork to get the funding is a nightmare.

https://www.zeit.de/digital/games/2020-01/gaming-branche-staatliche-foerdergelder-investitionen?utm_referrer=https://www.google.com/

It's not quite accurate though because there are game subvention programs on a state level, rather than national level. Bavaria gives out state grants to promising game projects, for example.
But it's true that there's a lack of it at the national level.
 

zool

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Mimimi Games got funding from the Federal government for their next game. What Thac0 was saying seems to be confirmed by the bolded sentence.

https://www.mimimi.games/the-future-of-mimimi-games/

The German government believes in Mimimi Games!
Now, certainly some of you will ask yourselves: How will Mimimi Games, a studio based in Munich consisting of around 30 people, finance their next project?

Well, financing Codename Süßkartoffel will be made possible through different building blocks. The core block, which is making all of this possible in the first place, is an undisclosed and independent investor that we will talk about at a later time in more detail!

One of the others is the German government. Yes, THE German government officially approves our real-time tactics game and our plan to self-publish our next project. This means, we are going to be one of the first (!) studios to receive governmental funding as part of the official games industry grant program, which was initiated and is managed by the “BMVI” (Federal Ministry of Transport and Digital Infrastructure).

We strongly appreciate this initiative by the German government. This is not only great news for us, but for all other German developers that have been granted funding as well. Also, our managing director Johannes has actually invested countless hours in association meetings to get this grant started. Therefore, he rejoices twice over.
 
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zool

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Spellbound(Desperados, Robin Hood, Arcania)Had success in the early 2000s with real-time tactics but wanted to grow and make RPGs so they made Arcania hoping for money in order to fund their steampunk RPG Ravensdale which didn't work out...

Before Arcania, Spellbound started to fuck up their formula with Chicago 1930, a game that should have been awesome as it still featured the beautiful maps that were so characteristic of Desperados and Robin Hood, but for which they inexplicably changed the gameplay from Commandos-style to some sort of action game that just didn't work out with the isometric view.

Actually, the tale of Spellbound Studios's demise is really sad.

https://www.mobygames.com/company/spellbound-entertainment-ag

In December 1998 the Spellbound team began with the development of their second original game. It was designed to be a real time strategy game and was supposed to take place in a location, which at that time had not been exploited in computer games to a large extent before: The Wild West. The game was called Desperados: Wanted Dead or Alive and it turned out to be Spellbound’s biggest success and most critically acclaimed title so far. The game received praise from the press for its AI and an innovation called "Quick Actions" which allowed the player to plan their moves in advance.

Just like the first part of "Airline Tycoon", "Desperados" was distributed by Infogrames (ATARI). In 2001 it was at the top of the game ratings (charts) in some countries for several weeks. The game’s cinematics won the "Animago award" in 2001 and the game itself is still ranked second in the "all-time-best-list" of the German magazine "PC-Games" in the category for strategy games.

An expansion to "Desperados" featuring new locations and characters was supposed to follow but was not released due to reasons which have not been completely uncovered up to today. Supposedly, there were company politics involved on publisher Infogrames’ side which involved budget and market focus. Ever since, some fans of "Desperados" have been waiting and yearning for an add-on or a sequel to the game. Another term that is often mentioned in this context is the so-called "Webisodes". These were additional levels Spellbound had planned to release via their website – possibly instead of a full-size add-on – to allow players of "Desperados" to continue the gaming experience.

Due to the success of "Desperados", Spellbound was able to expand its team. To be able to ensure a smooth game production with the increased team, the company introduced a form of "Extreme Programming" (a.k.a. "XP") to the development process in 2001, which was adjusted to the needs of game production. This "XP" process was introduced by technical director Stéphane Becker.

The first game created using these new methods was Robin Hood: Die Legende von Sherwood ("Robin Hood: The Legend of Sherwood"). "Robin Hood" was produced in cooperation with the French publisher Wanadoo Edition, today known as MC2.

For "Robin Hood" the Spellbound team refined the techniques which had been developed for "Desperados". The 2D-engine "Desperados" had used was improved and a new system of compression for sprites was introduced. All sprites were equipped with dynamic lighting processes and the "Quick Actions" were extended considerably.

"Robin Hood" was released in 2002. The game achieved top scores of up to 96% (Gen 4) in the press. "Robin Hood" could also repeat the success of "Desperados", in particular because of its cinematics which won the "Animago Award" as well.

In 2003 Spellbound Entertainment Ltd. expanded its product range by two more genres. The company published its first action adventure with Chicago 1930 and its first shooter with Rauchende Colts ("Smoking Colts"). By releasing "Rauchende Colts" Spellbound entered the market segment of low budget games.

Additionally Spellbound Entertainment Ltd. appeared as publisher of its own products for the first time by releasing "Rauchende Colts" and "Airline Tycoon Deluxe" in 2003.

Both the company and the press were not pleased with the game "Chicago 1930". It did not meet the former’s expectations in sales. As a consequence, Spellbound released a large portion of the team who worked on the title. The core team of the original "Desperados" stayed with the company. Among the employees who were laid off were Stéphane Becker, Jean-Michel Stenger and Martin Kuppe who went on to found a new company in Strasburg called Creative Patterns which employed most of the original "Desperados" team members.

In 2003, Spellbound began production of its first 3D real-time game, the sequel to "Desperados". Featuring an all new 3D engine, two perspectives (isometric and third person), a new character as well as new abilities for all heroes and new Western sets and developed by a new team, Desperados 2: Cooper’s Revenge was longingly awaited by fans of the original. Published by ATARI, the game was released in Germany on April 27th 2006.

Right after the completion of Desperados 2: Cooper’s Revenge production of an add-on titled "Desperados 2: Conspiracies" began. Shortly before production was complete, publisher Atari pulled out and left the team stranded with an almost finished game. Just like the add-on of its predecessor, the Desperados 2 Add-on was threatened to be never released despite being nearly complete. Luckily, Spellbound found a new publisher in Russia, Noviy Disk. Finally, German publisher digital tainment pool (dtp) brought the game to Germany and released it under their Anaconda label on June 6th, 2007.
 

1451

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Piranha isn't experimenting with the Gothic recipe because it's already almost perfect.
The addition of the jetpack in Elex was positive.
Now if only they could give a Souls like feeling to their games while keeping the quick save feature would be great.
 

Peachcurl

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According to Wikipedia, the developer team of Related Design a.k.a. Ubisoft Mainz were no longer involved in the creation of the two most recent games Anno 2205 and Anno 1800. I couldn't find out which of the two other studios, Ubisoft Düsseldorf or Ubisoft Berlin or both, took over for the two games.

[...]


Game_______Developer_________________Publisher_____Country
Anno 1601____Max Design________________Sunflowers_____Austria
Anno 1503____Max Design________________Sunflowers_____Austria
Anno 1701____Related Designs____________Sunflowers_____Germany
Anno 1404____BlueByte/Related Designs_____Ubisoft_______Germany
Anno 2070____BlueByte/Related Designs_____Ubisoft_______Germany
Anno 2205____Ubisoft Düsseldorf/Berlin______Ubisoft_______Germany
Anno 1800____Ubisoft Düsseldorf/Berlin______Ubisoft_______Germany

Don't see this in the game wiki pages.

The english wiki page of Anno 2205 says "The game is being developed by Blue Byte, primarily at its Mainz studio, the developer of Anno 1701 and Anno 1404".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anno_2205

Since the tense in the sentence above is wrong, it may be outdated. I checked the German wiki next.
German wiki: "Das Spiel wurde von dem deutschen Studio Blue Byte Mainz (ehemals Related Designs) entwickelt"
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anno_2205

Ubisoft Mainz also lists Anno 1800 in their portfolio
https://mainz.ubisoft.com/en/portfolio/anno-1800/

See also "vom deutschen Entwicklerstudio Ubisoft Blue Byte Mainz (ehemals Related Designs) entwickelt"
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anno_1800

Looks to me as if it is mainly Ubisoft Mainz. Even for 2205 and 1800.
 

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