Myth: The Fallen Lords on a modern PC

[Ludwig von Eisenthal]

FUCK trow

I did a no casualties run back in the day, no way am I savescumming my way through another one. Legendary is enough for the review.

Yeah, I know how it is. I attempted the same thing once - legendary and no casualties. But I lost nerves in The Watcher. There are some missions that are almost impossible to beat with zero casualties.

I actually managed to do it on Bagrada after abusing the Journeyman heal to freeze the trow, surrounding them with zerks, and breaking their pathfinding for a few seconds of hacking. Haven't done Shadow of the Mountain yet, but I remember carefully stockpiling every single dwarf satchel charge on the level and blowing the Trow general skyhigh back in the day. Doing a no casualty - let alone no damage - run on Legendary has always just been a big cheese/metafest.

I was successful in Bagrada too in my last Legendary playthrough. And Shadow of the Mountain is doable as well. The one thing very important against Trow is to pile up as many satchels as possible on one single spot and to be able to let them detonate at the exact moment when the Trow walks over them. That deals some essential damage to him before the Berzerks do the rest. If I remember correctly there were two or three missions I never managed with zero casualties: The Watcher and the Great Devoid. Maybe The Last Battle too. The others are possible, but with an extrem amount of save scumming.

 

[A horse of course]

FUCK trow

I did a no casualties run back in the day, no way am I savescumming my way through another one. Legendary is enough for the review.

Yeah, I know how it is. I attempted the same thing once - legendary and no casualties. But I lost nerves in The Watcher. There are some missions that are almost impossible to beat with zero casualties.

I actually managed to do it on Bagrada after abusing the Journeyman heal to freeze the trow, surrounding them with zerks, and breaking their pathfinding for a few seconds of hacking. Haven't done Shadow of the Mountain yet, but I remember carefully stockpiling every single dwarf satchel charge on the level and blowing the Trow general skyhigh back in the day. Doing a no casualty - let alone no damage - run on Legendary has always just been a big cheese/metafest.

I was successful in Bagrada too in my last Legendary playthrough. And Shadow of the Mountain is doable as well. The one thing very important against Trow is to pile up as many satchels as possible on one single spot and to be able to let them detonate at the exact moment when the Trow walks over them. That deals some essential damage to him before the Berzerks do the rest. If I remember correctly there were two or three missions I never managed with zero casualties: The Watcher and the Great Devoid. Maybe The Last Battle too. The others are possible, but with an extrem amount of save scumming.

If I remember correctly, TGD is just a big javelin-dodging slog. The Watcher I don't recall the exact details, I vaguely remember attacking the Shade from different angles with individual zerks so he wouldn't use his dispersal dream, and I think causing the Watcher guards' scripting to spaz out to get them out of the way.

 

[Ludwig von Eisenthal]

FUCK trow

I did a no casualties run back in the day, no way am I savescumming my way through another one. Legendary is enough for the review.

Yeah, I know how it is. I attempted the same thing once - legendary and no casualties. But I lost nerves in The Watcher. There are some missions that are almost impossible to beat with zero casualties.

I actually managed to do it on Bagrada after abusing the Journeyman heal to freeze the trow, surrounding them with zerks, and breaking their pathfinding for a few seconds of hacking. Haven't done Shadow of the Mountain yet, but I remember carefully stockpiling every single dwarf satchel charge on the level and blowing the Trow general skyhigh back in the day. Doing a no casualty - let alone no damage - run on Legendary has always just been a big cheese/metafest.

I was successful in Bagrada too in my last Legendary playthrough. And Shadow of the Mountain is doable as well. The one thing very important against Trow is to pile up as many satchels as possible on one single spot and to be able to let them detonate at the exact moment when the Trow walks over them. That deals some essential damage to him before the Berzerks do the rest. If I remember correctly there were two or three missions I never managed with zero casualties: The Watcher and the Great Devoid. Maybe The Last Battle too. The others are possible, but with an extrem amount of save scumming.

If I remember correctly, TGD is just a big javelin-dodging slog. The Watcher I don't recall the exact details, I vaguely remember attacking the Shade from different angles with individual zerks so he wouldn't use his dispersal dream, and I think causing the Watcher guards' scripting to spaz out to get them out of the way.

I think the combination made The Watcher difficult. Tons of Soulless. And I also remember those darn ghôls throwing these exploding Wight body parts around being one of the most annoying things in The Watcher. I hate these little pricks.

 

[A horse of course]

Got to the Watcher again and yeah, it's almost impossible to do without casualties. I've gotten it on every single level prior (except the scripted deaths at the start of Forest Heart) but this is too much. Checking out the Myth Legendary/No Cas/No Dam videos on youtube, everyone seems to skip the Watcher. I did find a video from a South American player who did it (Olaf something), though by exploting the Myth 2 veterancy to get uber-berserks from killing everyone on every level leading up to it. I managed to get to the last group on the hill with no casualties, but charging the final triple-line of Soulless with the ghols and their exploding packets behind is too much. You basically need a full line of perfect health zerks and a couple of decoys to draw fire to even have a chance of doing it without deaths.

I'll try another couple of times to try and get a no casualty run, but otherwise I'll just skip the no casualties for this one.

 

[Maggot]

No casualty runs are boring.

 

[Ludwig von Eisenthal]

Got to the Watcher again and yeah, it's almost impossible to do without casualties. I've gotten it on every single level prior (except the scripted deaths at the start of Forest Heart) but this is too much. Checking out the Myth Legendary/No Cas/No Dam videos on youtube, everyone seems to skip the Watcher. I did find a video from a South American player who did it (Olaf something), though by exploting the Myth 2 veterancy to get uber-berserks from killing everyone on every level leading up to it. I managed to get to the last group on the hill with no casualties, but charging the final triple-line of Soulless with the ghols and their exploding packets behind is too much. You basically need a full line of perfect health zerks and a couple of decoys to draw fire to even have a chance of doing it without deaths.

I'll try another couple of times to try and get a no casualty run, but otherwise I'll just skip the no casualties for this one.

Yeah, I watched Olaf's video myself yesterday. Crazy stuff, this guy knows every way to trick the AI. But don't worry too much about this mission and zero casualties. In my opinion it is the most difficult mission in both Myth games for such an attempt. At least in the original games (there are some missions in The Seventh God that are equally difficult to beat without casualties - a fantastic total conversion by the way, if you don't know it already). Anyway, I look forward to watch your playthrough.

 

[A horse of course]

Ok, I did the Watcher with no casualties. I just savescummed for an hour dodging the ghol packets in the final ring. Every single unit was on something like 20% health or less by the end.

 

[Ludwig von Eisenthal]

Ok, I did the Watcher with no casualties. I just savescummed for an hour dodging the ghol packets in the final ring. Every single unit was on something like 20% health or less by the end.

I salute you! Where and when can I watch this glorious achievement?

 

[A horse of course]

Ok, I did the Watcher with no casualties. I just savescummed for an hour dodging the ghol packets in the final ring. Every single unit was on something like 20% health or less by the end.

I salute you! Where and when can I watch this glorious achievement?

I could probably send the recording file if you have Myth 2 with the Fallen Levels etc. I don't think anything needs to be enabled other than "TFL gameplay" and the interface, AFAIK stuff like terrain deformation and such shouldn't desync recordings.

https://mega.nz/file/Dl8GRZCD#87SdlWwdIXolibpAG3VLGTjGZpOIfuXtM5_0NmjFx3E

 

[Ludwig von Eisenthal]

Ok, I did the Watcher with no casualties. I just savescummed for an hour dodging the ghol packets in the final ring. Every single unit was on something like 20% health or less by the end.

I salute you! Where and when can I watch this glorious achievement?

I could probably send the recording file if you have Myth 2 with the Fallen Levels etc. I don't think anything needs to be enabled other than "TFL gameplay" and the interface, AFAIK stuff like terrain deformation and such shouldn't desync recordings.

https://mega.nz/file/Dl8GRZCD#87SdlWwdIXolibpAG3VLGTjGZpOIfuXtM5_0NmjFx3E

That's strange, is that really the correct file? Cormorant kills quite some Berserks here right after the swamp.

 

[A horse of course]

Ok, I did the Watcher with no casualties. I just savescummed for an hour dodging the ghol packets in the final ring. Every single unit was on something like 20% health or less by the end.

I salute you! Where and when can I watch this glorious achievement?

I could probably send the recording file if you have Myth 2 with the Fallen Levels etc. I don't think anything needs to be enabled other than "TFL gameplay" and the interface, AFAIK stuff like terrain deformation and such shouldn't desync recordings.

https://mega.nz/file/Dl8GRZCD#87SdlWwdIXolibpAG3VLGTjGZpOIfuXtM5_0NmjFx3E

That's strange, is that really the correct file? Cormorant kills quite some Berserks here right after the swamp.

Damn, it must be desynced. Are on the latest Myth 2 magma patch (1.8.4) with the TFL gameplay enabled? I'll use OBS to record a video OF the recording just to show the main bits.

 

[Ludwig von Eisenthal]

Ok, I did the Watcher with no casualties. I just savescummed for an hour dodging the ghol packets in the final ring. Every single unit was on something like 20% health or less by the end.

I salute you! Where and when can I watch this glorious achievement?

I could probably send the recording file if you have Myth 2 with the Fallen Levels etc. I don't think anything needs to be enabled other than "TFL gameplay" and the interface, AFAIK stuff like terrain deformation and such shouldn't desync recordings.

https://mega.nz/file/Dl8GRZCD#87SdlWwdIXolibpAG3VLGTjGZpOIfuXtM5_0NmjFx3E

That's strange, is that really the correct file? Cormorant kills quite some Berserks here right after the swamp.

Damn, it must be desynced. Are on the latest Myth 2 magma patch (1.8.4) with the TFL gameplay enabled? I'll use OBS to record a video OF the recording just to show the main bits.

Ah yes, I was still on 1.83 in my installation. Now on 1.84 it works without a flaw!

 

[Ludwig von Eisenthal]

Wow, that is an impressive piece of work Ed123 ! And it looks so easy. I myself never explored the map so much. I also didn't know that you can keep Shades busy by leaving one of your units beyond some water (which they can't traverse). Man, the last charge on the final defense line was beyond epic! And I felt the pain and sweat of that zero casualties run. I can only imagine how many save/load-cycles that took. Tremendous work!

 

[A horse of course]

Ok, I did the Watcher with no casualties. I just savescummed for an hour dodging the ghol packets in the final ring. Every single unit was on something like 20% health or less by the end.

I salute you! Where and when can I watch this glorious achievement?

I could probably send the recording file if you have Myth 2 with the Fallen Levels etc. I don't think anything needs to be enabled other than "TFL gameplay" and the interface, AFAIK stuff like terrain deformation and such shouldn't desync recordings.

https://mega.nz/file/Dl8GRZCD#87SdlWwdIXolibpAG3VLGTjGZpOIfuXtM5_0NmjFx3E

That's strange, is that really the correct file? Cormorant kills quite some Berserks here right after the swamp.

Damn, it must be desynced. Are on the latest Myth 2 magma patch (1.8.4) with the TFL gameplay enabled? I'll use OBS to record a video OF the recording just to show the main bits.

Ah yes, I was still on 1.83 in my installation. Now on 1.84 it works without a flaw!

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH I JUST MADE A RECORDING OF IT

I'll upload it in a few minutes anyway in case anyone is curious.

Wow, that is an impressive piece of work Ed123 ! And it looks so easy. I myself never explored the map so much. I also didn't know that you can keep Shades busy by leaving one of your units beyond some water (which they can't traverse). Man, the last charge on the final defense line was beyond epic! And I felt the pain and sweat of that zero casualties run. I can only imagine how many save/load-cycles that took. Tremendous work!

It was by accident tbh. I was testing the Soulless/Ghol squad's scripts to see how they reacted to where the bulk of your units where, when suddenly they all picked a random target and made a beeline for them.

The absolute worst section is that last bit with the ghols. Something like 300 reloads on that bit trying to minimize the number of successful pus packet hits. It's definitely a reminder that the game isn't meant for no casualty runs. Doing it the first time, with only a handful of guys left alive standing in the midst of their comrades' bloody corpses, was more narratively appropriate and satisfying than savescumming a no casualty win.

Here's a video of it in case anybody is interested in how I did it. Probably not as effective as the method used in Olaf's video, but eh, it worked:

https://mega.nz/file/XhlClSrD#uNOLPS2Y8ehhq1OfcAv5QwI6yMPqqBidfFGlzOEddIY

 

[A horse of course]

Alright bros, finished my replay. Legendary, no casualties (except the scripted bit at the start of Forest Heart). Time to start writing the script

 

[Ludwig von Eisenthal]

Alright bros, finished my replay. Legendary, no casualties (except the scripted bit at the start of Forest Heart). Time to start writing the script

You crazy, wonderful bastard! That's no small feat indeed. I never managed it, always lost nerves in some or the other mission. Did you also beat the secret bonus mission A Long Awaited Party?

Will you continue with Myth 2 now?

I think I'll replay Myth myself too. From 1997 I replayed it at least every second year. Just can't get enough of this game and its grim narration. But I think I'll play it with casualties this time - as you correctly say: It's part of the game to suffer bloody and gory losses.

 

[A horse of course]

Alright bros, finished my replay. Legendary, no casualties (except the scripted bit at the start of Forest Heart). Time to start writing the script

You crazy, wonderful bastard! That's no small feat indeed. I never managed it, always lost nerves in some or the other mission. Did you also beat the secret bonus mission A Long Awaited Party?

Will you continue with Myth 2 now?

I think I'll replay Myth myself too. From 1997 I replayed it at least every second year. Just can't get enough of this game and its grim narration. But I think I'll play it with casualties this time - as you correctly say: It's part of the game to suffer bloody and gory losses.

Yeah, I did Ambush at Devil's Overlook and A Long Awaited Party. Myth 2 I'll save for next year, after my Baldur's Gate II retrospective, both for variety's sake and because I'd like to have a section covering Chimera and the other unofficial fan campaigns, so it'll take a bit longer. I'll cover Myth 3 a few months after that.

Personally I do prefer Myth 1.3, as you have the interface at the proper size (with the portraits easier to see), the blood looks better, and I like the general "look" of the game - the Myth TFL sprites look too "clean" and "soft" at the higher resolutions of the project Magma patch in 1.5 or Myth II. Still, I think The Fallen Levels with TFL gameplay addons are perfectly fine for most people, and people are more willing to pick it up and give it a try if they see it looking more "modern" with widescreen and higher resolutions in my video. Not to mention there's all the extra levels and addons to experiment with since it became the defacto standard way of playing Myth. I'll download the HD sprites and upscaled terrain later on to get footage for the video. Looks ok in screenshots but some of the particle effects and stuff look very out of place to me (like the Duke Nukem 3d High Resolution pack), plus the HD units actually look kind of weird with the jerky animations. Some people like it though, so it's worth showing off in the video.

 

[Ludwig von Eisenthal]

Ed123 You definitvely have to check out the already mentioned Seventh God. Without any doubt it's the pinnacle of Myth 2-single player mods. And I played them all (or at least tried them). Chimera feels a bit strange to me - not like a real game, a bit unfinished and not that interesting in mission design.
If you really intend to play Myth 3 I'd recommend you to have a look at the Myth 3-remake which runs under Myth 2. It has been in beta for an eternity but it's still fully playable and very true to the original. And it looks and feels just so much better than the ugly and clunky polygons of the original game. That's the true Myth 3 for me. And with the interface mod GUI and menus look and sound exactly like Myth 3.

Personally I don't like the HD-stuff for Myth 1 and 2 - exactly for the same reason you mentioned: It just doesn't look right with the animations.

 

[A horse of course]

Ed123 You definitvely have to check out the already mentioned Seventh God. Without any doubt it's the pinnacle of Myth 2-single player mods. And I played them all (or at least tried them). Chimera feels a bit strange to me - not like a real game, a bit unfinished and not that interesting in mission design.
If you really intend to play Myth 3 I'd recommend you to have a look at the Myth 3-remake which runs under Myth 2. It has been in beta for an eternity but it's still fully playable and very true to the original. And it looks and feels just so much better than the ugly and clunky polygons of the original game. That's the true Myth 3 for me. And with the interface mod GUI and menus look and sound exactly like Myth 3.

Personally I don't like the HD-stuff for Myth 1 and 2 - exactly for the same reason you mentioned: It just doesn't look right with the animations.

I've played Seventh God, but I had no idea Myth three-to-two existed, thanks for the tip! I'll cover it in my Myth 2 video.

 

[A horse of course]

Ludwig von Eisenthal et al - do any of you know somewhere I might find wallpapers for Myth TFL? At the moment I'm using high DPI scans of the manual and box covers, but they have minor artifacts that are more obvious when you're using video editing. Even a 1280 x 1024 digital wallpaper of the front cover would be a godsend

 

[BlackGoat]

What would you guys expect or desire out of a modern Myth game, either a new one in the series, or a spiritual successor (meaning like an indie homage/rip-off of the Myth series).

 

[Great Deceiver]

What would you guys expect or desire out of a modern Myth game, either a new one in the series, or a spiritual successor (meaning like an indie homage/rip-off of the Myth series).

It could never be done proper justice in today's market. Best for it to stay dead.

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

Pretty much what the guy above said. All the talent-less hacks should leave my myth alone. Just make it officially available on GOG and we're done.

 

[Lagi]

What would you guys expect or desire out of a modern Myth game, either a new one in the series, or a spiritual successor (meaning like an indie homage/rip-off of the Myth series).

Leave the spiritual successor alone. Create another game in the genre of fantasy, tactical RTS. So nobody gets butthurt, and your attempt don't feel like plagiarism.

Spoiler

1. add faster units,
to counter range one. Mounted, horse riders (camel, elephant, bear, wolf ... centaurs?). But the riders have to be max 2x as fast as footman, to avoid problems with tracking your fast unit (that is usually solved with bigger zoom, and icon markers on map - yuck).

2. let units get knock back.
After explosion or monster swing, puny humans are scatter around and stand up after a while.

3. add wounded state.
During fights when HP drop to 0, unit could collapse to the ground, being excluded from combat, but can be healed after. This will add a choice: should i finish off agonizing foes, or continue fighting with the fit one. If you win difficult melee combat, you will not be severely penalized by losing all your warriors. Some type of units could have a higher chance to kill opponents on the spot, without needing coup-de-grace.

dwarf explosion could kill if its a direct hit, and rather wound if cocktail land further away
Fetch would have higher chance to electrocute to death metal clad troops, but rather stun lighter one.

4. sync kill.
Especially if you add some big monsters. This point assume 3d, but i think it's the default approach nowadays.

5. upgrade system between missions - that is not affecting the unit performance that much (!!!).
... or it's a compensation mechanism. Your soldiers damage their weapons (swords), and need to pick up a Thrall axe, which is much worse, but better than a fist.
... the difference between chanimail and chainmail +1, is absolutely none against Trow kick.

6. more interaction with environment
cutting down trees, defreezing/breaking ice on river, burning constructions, flooding canyons (some units like Thrall dont care), pushing into lava, chasm (warrior standing on narrow bridge and shield bashing Myrkridia into river current could be a novelty)

 

[Humbaba]

What would you guys expect or desire out of a modern Myth game, either a new one in the series, or a spiritual successor (meaning like an indie homage/rip-off of the Myth series).

The same game but with bigger explosions and more gore physics.