Incline Phantasy Star 4

[Theldaran]

Played it right in 1994, I originally learned English ex profeso for Shining Force 2 and this. I mean, I had English classes at school, but I worked extra hard to understand the texts.

It was as impactful as Dragon Quest 11 today possibly. A delicious old school RPG, where grinding was unknown and story was gripping. It even had semi-VN sequences of dialogue adorned with static cutscenes.

 

[Jason Liang]

 

[abnaxus]

At the end of first generation in III you should really marry Maia. Then next generation you play with twins, it's more interesting.

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

And here i thought it was remade like 1&2

 

[Humanity has risen!]

It's clearly inspired by Lunar Silver Star. I think it ruined Phantasy Star. It added too much socialization, corny jokes, and other conventions first established in Lunar that turned it into a generic jRPG like any other.

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

Were there that many joke in PSIII? I sure don't recall but maybe the game just felt meh. Combat animations seemed lazy. I know i only finished one path and didn't go back to finish others. If i was to play on emulator i could do that.... or..

Spoiler

 

[Falksi]

So I've done a bit of a u-turn on this again. I kept getting urges to replay it, and this time round I'm enjoying it way more.

I think the reason is because I played SO many turn-based SNES JRPGs this year, that compared to them PS4's grinding is lightweight. The ones I've played are:

• Final Fantasy 4
• Final Fantasy 5
• Final Fantasy 6
• Chrono Trigger
• Eternal Filena
• Lufia 2
• Super Shell Monster Story
• Emerald Dragon
• Dark Half
• Breath of Fire
• Breath of Fire 2
• 7th Saga
• Duel Orb 2
• Bahamut Lagoon

And most were average or crap, and very grind-heavy (agggghhhh 7th Saga!!). Returning to PS4 has been a breath of fresh air, and it's way ahead of most of the rest when it comes to banter, how the story is told, and the combat. Those cut scenes are just fantastic, and the combat actually feels engaging (highlighted even more from being fresh out of a Chrono "press A constantly to win" Trigger playthrough).

 

[Falksi]

One of the things I love about Phantasy Star 4 is the grounded, everyday attitude. Particularly how the game makes it clear searching other people's houses for goods is, quite frankly, a fucking stupid trope to have in JRPGS

 

[Falksi]

The banter, humour and writing in this game is really is fantastic for a 16-bit RPG.

 

[Grampy_Bone]

Always had a soft spot for this game, rented it a bunch of times and played it over a weekend as a kid. Blatantly ripped off paid homage with the name Rune for my Immortal Wizard (TM) character in all my tabletop games/fantasy series.

 

[Falksi]

Just finished it again. What a fucking fantastic game, and lush ending. It's got it's flaws, but for me personally it creams all the other 16-bit traditional, turn-based RPGs of the era with it's blend of humour, drama, emotion, music and engaging combat. It gets a bit padded out towards the end, and is definitely a bit too linear, but I'm genuinely surprised how much I've come away buzzing from it again.

 

[Puukko]

The retranslation got updated again recently, by the way. I still need to get back to this - my playthrough is stuck at the Zio fight. I suspect when I get back to it I won't actually get the fight done since I'll just be jamming to the theme.

 

[Darth Canoli]

Just finished it again. What a fucking fantastic game, and lush ending. It's got it's flaws, but for me personally it creams all the other 16-bit traditional, turn-based RPGs of the era with it's blend of humour, drama, emotion, music and engaging combat. It gets a bit padded out towards the end, and is definitely a bit too linear, but I'm genuinely surprised how much I've come away buzzing from it again.

I only played III and IV and never to completion, a friend lent me the cartridges back then while i owned Shining Force I and II and lent him the superior games.

What kills all the fun in PSIII & IV for me

• Magic names, it's a small thing but i don't want to memorize that shit, not that i can't, i just don't want to. Memorizing historic deeds, dinosaurs names is just natural and interesting, remembering retarded spells names just makes the whole thing anticlimactic and painful to play (just like in Elminage)
• Terrible dungeon design
• Very high encounter rate, which makes the terrible dungeon design even worse (dead ends)

 

[Falksi]

Just finished it again. What a fucking fantastic game, and lush ending. It's got it's flaws, but for me personally it creams all the other 16-bit traditional, turn-based RPGs of the era with it's blend of humour, drama, emotion, music and engaging combat. It gets a bit padded out towards the end, and is definitely a bit too linear, but I'm genuinely surprised how much I've come away buzzing from it again.

I only played III and IV and never to completion, a friend lent me the cartridges back then while i owned Shining Force I and II and lent him the superior games.

What kills all the fun in PSIII & IV for me

• Magic names, it's a small thing but i don't want to memorize that shit, not that i can't, i just don't want to. Memorizing historic deeds, dinosaurs names is just natural and interesting, remembering retarded spells names just makes the whole thing anticlimactic and painful to play (just like in Elminage)
• Terrible dungeon design
• Very high encounter rate, which makes the terrible dungeon design even worse (dead ends)

The magic names things never bothered me personally. I actually like things like that because it adds another layer of mystery to the game.

Dungeon design I totally disagree on. I think they've a great blend of linearity and choice. I don't think you can really go wrong with where you're going.

However the high encounter rate is indeed a mixed bag. I think the first half of the game it's fine, but then it does noticeably ramp up and can be annoying. When I played it around 18 months ago it bothered me quite a bit, and I quit before finishing it too. But I came to this playthrough off the back of a ton of 16-bit, mainly SNES, JRPGs and so PS4 was like a diet version of them when it came to the encounter rates.

 

[Darth Canoli]

You're probably right about the dungeon design, it was still maze-like even if it's open and you want to explore every corner of it in order not to miss any loot, so it's bad either way due to the high encounter rate.

Well, i think i played way more PS III than PSIV now i think of it and it was a long time ago, maybe PS IV is better in this regard.

 

[Theldaran]

What kills all the fun in PSIII & IV for me

• Magic names, it's a small thing but i don't want to memorize that shit, not that i can't, i just don't want to. Memorizing historic deeds, dinosaurs names is just natural and interesting, remembering retarded spells names just makes the whole thing anticlimactic and painful to play (just like in Elminage)
• Terrible dungeon design
• Very high encounter rate, which makes the terrible dungeon design even worse (dead ends)

About the magic. Ideally you should test all the skills and techniques you receive, probably in filler combat. Then use them liberally on major fights or in hard dungeons (like the one in Tomoe). It wasn't much too difficult for a kid with a good memory like I was.

The dungeons are just easy. Not as horrible as in PSII. It's just smooth sailing.

And about the encounters, maybe they're tedious but not so much. Most often you have enough level to progress smoothly, I know that then the combat is more like a chore, but usually you can get to places in reasonable time. You just need a little patience. Also grinding is practically unknown since there are no major experience farms and you can tackle enemies reasonably at your current level, with a few exceptions. The worst fight in the game for me was the one in the Air Castle or something (castle floating in an asteroid field) where you have 3 bosses, if they are together they can launch a powerful attack. So you have to focus all your firepower in one of them at a time. Everything else is pretty doable.

 

[Darth Canoli]

I launched it to check, got to the point where it's not linear anymore.

• The dialogs are good compared to jrpg standards.
• Different weapons for different characters, some weapons hitting all the enemies, like Alys with her boomerangs, just like Vren (from PS III, i think)
• The story is decent, nothing spectacular but it's not retarded either but it was the standard back in the days, the retardation plaguing jrpg came later, i think.

On the other hand:
- Dungeon design is nothing special, quite mediocre so far.
- Encounter rate is way too high, less random encounters for higher gold/xp rewards would have been very nice.
- The combat is nothing special, the macro system is nice but it's not enough, it becomes tedious real fast. There is worse but still.
- Also, even with the androids and different types of weapons, i find the settings too bland.
- I really don't like the spells names, of course, you use them and then write it down but still, it's a nuisance.
- Character development, there is none

In order to pretend to be a good jrpg, it'd have to stand out somewhat, there's the legacy thing which makes it somewhat replayable if you can stomach it or you have too much time on your hands.

For me, great jrpg are the shining Force and Suikoden franchises, particularly I & II ( i played SF III as well).
Why?

Suikoden

• 100+ stars (recruitable characters)
• Some variety with the "Wargame" interludes.
• The combo moves between some characters, 2 to 4 characters put together.
• Attack ranges and formation.
• Secret characters to discover/unlock.

Shining Force

• Huge roaster as well.
• A great races/classes variety.
• You can recruit a dragon, a flying "octopus" in SF1.
• A phenix, a werewolf, a pegasus, a rat ninja, dwarves, a robot, a golem, centaurs in SF2
• Tactical Combat.
• Giant bosses, like Taros, the Kraken.
• All of the hidden items.
• Secret characters, harder to find.
• Secret classes/promotions.

Clearly, Phantasy Star III and IV don't play in the same league as these franchises, didn't play PS I & II though.
So, decent jrpg, better than most but nothing special either.

 

[Theldaran]

Actually, I think that the Phantasy Star franchise was more appreciated and famous back in the day, it starting on the Master System.

I was well informed and also played Shining Force II on launch, a memorable game that was wildly fun. But Phantasy Star IV was a great experience too, beatable during Christmas break, and I think it's the best from its franchise too.

I'd also withhold your opinion until you've beaten it, and it's pretty long.

 

[JDR13]

Clearly, Phantasy Star III and IV don't play in the same league as these franchises, didn't play PS I & II though.
So, decent jrpg, better than most but nothing special either.

Based on what? They're very different types of games.

SF is a strategy-RPG, and Suikoden is sort of a hybrid. Personally, I found Suikoden pretty forgettable. I thought the original SF was great, but it's not even the same genre.

 

[Darth Canoli]

I'd also withhold your opinion until you've beaten it, and it's pretty long.

I don't think it's going to happen, i'll try to push further but the combat, dungeon design and char dev are really important and it's boring me already.

Based on what? They're very different types of games.

For me, there's only two genre of jrpg, the few good ones and the 98% of mediocre to terrible ones.

 

[JDR13]

Based on what? They're very different types of games.

For me, there's only two genre of jrpg, the few good ones and the 98% of mediocre to terrible ones.

Most people would agree that the games being discussed here fall into the former category. There's no doubt that 90+% of JRPGs are mediocre to terrible.

 

[Theldaran]

I'd also withhold your opinion until you've beaten it, and it's pretty long.

I don't think it's going to happen, i'll try to push further but the combat, dungeon design and char dev are really important and it's boring me already.

As a kid, playing this was pure crack. There wasn't anything like it on the Genesis.

I understand if now you have different feelings. It's my case playing Final Fantasy 7 now. I can't be made to care.

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

As A kid I wanted to play PS1 so bad because they showed the blobber aspect on TV. I was hugely into that type of dungeon crawling. Pity I couldn't find a master system for sale.

when I bought a replacement genesis with cd in 1998 I picked up PS2 &3. Loved 2 but it took a damn while to finish because Terminator sidetracked me.

So I've done a bit of a u-turn on this again. I kept getting urges to replay it, and this time round I'm enjoying it way more.

I think the reason is because I played SO many turn-based SNES JRPGs this year, that compared to them PS4's grinding is lightweight. The ones I've played are:

• Final Fantasy 4
• Final Fantasy 5
• Final Fantasy 6
• Chrono Trigger
• Eternal Filena
• Lufia 2
• Super Shell Monster Story
• Emerald Dragon
• Dark Half
• Breath of Fire
• Breath of Fire 2
• 7th Saga
• Duel Orb 2
• Bahamut Lagoon

And most were average or crap, and very grind-heavy (agggghhhh 7th Saga!!). Returning to PS4 has been a breath of fresh air, and it's way ahead of most of the rest when it comes to banter, how the story is told, and the combat. Those cut scenes are just fantastic, and the combat actually feels engaging (highlighted even more from being fresh out of a Chrono "press A constantly to win" Trigger playthrough).

Which alt did you play in 7th Saga. Via emulator I was playing them all with save states. I never finished one and yeah SLOG is right.

Best version of Shining Force is CD for the extra content imho. Actually, thd whole Shining franchise is pretty lewt.

 

[Falksi]

As A kid I wanted to play PS1 so bad because they showed the blobber aspect on TV. I was hugely into that type of dungeon crawling. Pity I couldn't find a master system for sale.

when I bought a replacement genesis with cd in 1998 I picked up PS2 &3. Loved 2 but it took a damn while to finish because Terminator sidetracked me.

So I've done a bit of a u-turn on this again. I kept getting urges to replay it, and this time round I'm enjoying it way more.

I think the reason is because I played SO many turn-based SNES JRPGs this year, that compared to them PS4's grinding is lightweight. The ones I've played are:

• Final Fantasy 4
• Final Fantasy 5
• Final Fantasy 6
• Chrono Trigger
• Eternal Filena
• Lufia 2
• Super Shell Monster Story
• Emerald Dragon
• Dark Half
• Breath of Fire
• Breath of Fire 2
• 7th Saga
• Duel Orb 2
• Bahamut Lagoon

And most were average or crap, and very grind-heavy (agggghhhh 7th Saga!!). Returning to PS4 has been a breath of fresh air, and it's way ahead of most of the rest when it comes to banter, how the story is told, and the combat. Those cut scenes are just fantastic, and the combat actually feels engaging (highlighted even more from being fresh out of a Chrono "press A constantly to win" Trigger playthrough).

Which alt did you play in 7th Saga. Via emulator I was playing them all with save states. I never finished one and yeah SLOG is right.

Best version of Shining Force is CD for the extra content imho. Actually, thd whole Shining franchise is pretty lewt.

I played the standard version of 7th Saga on ZSNES too. I loved the vibe & setup, similar to a lot of those games really, but like you say the slog is very real. Returning to Phantasy Star 4 after playing those in terms of grind and slog was like coming out of a Japanese Prisoner Of War torture camp, to having to do half hour detention at school.

There's a few that I forgot to put on that list too. Earthbound, FEDA - Emblem of Justice, and Fire Emblem: Mystery of the Emblem and Fire Emblem: Genealogy of the Holy War.

I'm genuinely shocked at how the SNES has a reputation for being the best RPG machine of the era. It's definitely got a big library of them, but the only ones which I'm even tempted to play again are Lufia 2 and Final Fantasy 5. My fave 3 none-PC RPGs from that era so far are Phantasy Star 4, Shining Force 2, and Warsong. And they're all on the Megadrive, yet retards mock if you state that as good at RPGs as the SNES is. So far for me personally it's been better.

I'm desperate to play SFCD, but I want to clear all the cartridge based stuff first. Looking forward to that one!

 

[Falksi]

Clearly, Phantasy Star III and IV don't play in the same league as these franchises, didn't play PS I & II though.
So, decent jrpg, better than most but nothing special either.

Based on what? They're very different types of games.

SF is a strategy-RPG, and Suikoden is sort of a hybrid. Personally, I found Suikoden pretty forgettable. I thought the original SF was great, but it's not even the same genre.

I too like to split them into JRPGs and Strategy RPGs, but the general consensus seems to see them all as JRPGs. Hell they even see Dark Souls as a JRPG.