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Total War Saga: Troy - now on Steam

Lacrymas

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2015
Messages
18,001
Pathfinder: Wrath
I played this yesterday a bit more and first impressions are still positive. I started as Agamemnon because he's the only character whose start is easy in order to familiarize myself with the game. And the start is indeed easy. Agamemnon gets to demand resources from his vassals (and you start out having 1 vassal), which can comfortably finance whatever plans you have at the start, be it recruiting more units, building more buildings, or sycophantizing the gods. This hurts diplomatic relations, but if you don't do it too much it doesn't matter. Getting a vassal is also not very easy, especially since you don't have the court intrigues of the high elves building your relationships for you. Other characters, especially Ajax and Diomedes (I think), outright give you resources to enter into a military alliance with them. So yeah, Agamemnon is easy.

As for the battles, they are absolutely fine and not worse than any other Total War game. Sieges are actually a challenge this time around because slingers and javelin throwers are unsurprisingly quite shit at attacking people on the walls. Even though I had more units than the other guy, I had to reload like 3 times in order to barely win. Hard campaign/normal battles. I like how this game is more focused than WH2, WH2 can get quite bloated depending on who you are playing as. More types of resources also means having an actual use for your settlements. So, yeah, I still don't see what people don't like about it. At least compared to other Total War games. I also haven't gotten to the myth units yet.
 

Lacrymas

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2015
Messages
18,001
Pathfinder: Wrath
More impressions - I'm convinced now that people don't like it because "it's not Warhammer, lel". That's actually a good thing in this case. I think they went into this expecting something different and went nuts when they didn't get it. Maybe the most egregious issues have been patched already and I didn't get to see the catastrophe at launch, but I can only attest to how it's now. Also, I haven't played any other Total War game outside of WH, so maybe that could also be clouding my judgement. Perhaps "true" historical TW titles are better, but since I don't have that reference point I can't see the decline. Either way, I still like Troy and loooove the setting and the art, and even the graphics. My countrymen over at CA Sofia have done a great job with the map and art. From what I've seen, it's the best looking Total War game by far. It's also very well optimized compared to the janky behemoth that is WH2.

I like the battles here more than in WH2. There, I said it. They aren't as overly reliant on ranged units and you can't have a 16/3 high elf archer/spearman doomstack and effortlessly win basically any battle. If you stack slingers, you'll be surrounded and crushed before they manage to get into formation. You can't even get archers before quite a bit into a campaign, at least 30+ turns. Don't get me wrong, ranged units can be powerful and perhaps necessary to beat some fights, but they aren't as overpowered and ubiquitous as they are in WH2. You also can't build walls in every settlement ever, so open battles and battles around settlements with unique exploitable terrain are the norm and frequent, as opposed to 4 out of 5 battles being terrible wall sieges like in WH2. The walled sieges themselves aren't horrible as they are in WH2 too.

So, yeah, I suspect the increased difficulty and inability to doomstack in the beginning are factors as to why this game gets mistreated the way it is. You also can't really create two armies in turn 5 and massacre the early game opposition. I'm on turn 25 and am just now getting enough income to start considering another army. And this is with Agamemnon who gets his allies to do his wars for him.

I also like how each character has his own epic questline to work towards as a victory condition. I would've liked a bit more story and context as to why we are doing these missions, but since I've only completed 2 missions up to now it might become more story-heavy later. All in all, I'm happy for now and think the game is actually quite enjoyable. We'll see if this feeling gets justified later. Oh and I'm playing on the original mode, so I haven't even begun the mode people are saying is the best of the three.
 

Lacrymas

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2015
Messages
18,001
Pathfinder: Wrath
The first very questionable thing I encountered - heroes can destroy gates (in truth behind the myth mode, probably in mythos as well, no idea about historical mode). This makes the best tactic when siegeing having your hero (now with an extra fancy chariot) go up front to destroy the gates to let your other troops in. Towers and ranged units can't target the hero there at all, so he has free reign over the gate until it's destroyed. It's kind of immersion-breaking, not gonna lie. Sieges are much better and harder than in Warhammer, but I think they need a redesign or something. The first thing is that single entity heroes shouldn't be able to attack gates. Being able to place your units only inside the city walls also contributes to this. You (and the AI) should be able to flank the attacking army somehow. They've reduced walled sieges to a minimum in this, only the main settlement in a province has a wall, but it still feels like the weakest part of the game. I know it's not only Troy's problem, so I'm not specifically targeting it here. Something has to be done, however.
 

Sarathiour

Cipher
Joined
Jun 7, 2020
Messages
3,262
I touched it a bit at the beginning of the year, they were balance problem, with chariot being especially egregious. Basically, you could doomstack them and roll over anything not behind a wall. I don't know if it has been changed.
 

Tacgnol

Shitlord
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Messages
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Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Grab the Codex by the pussy RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath I helped put crap in Monomyth
I touched it a bit at the beginning of the year, they were balance problem, with chariot being especially egregious. Basically, you could doomstack them and roll over anything not behind a wall. I don't know if it has been changed.

Sounds like chariots in Rome 2 at release as well (if you could get into a battle without it crashing).

They got nerfed to the point of near uselessness.
 

Lacrymas

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2015
Messages
18,001
Pathfinder: Wrath
I just got chariots and used them once in a siege battle, so I can't really comment on their power yet, but they should be fixed by now. They are also super expensive, one of them costs around 950 wood.

EDIT: After a cursory googling, it seems they are indeed nerfed now. They die very easily and non-perfect terrain severely hampers them. They are still powerful on flat terrain, but that's rare.
 
Last edited:

Lacrymas

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2015
Messages
18,001
Pathfinder: Wrath
This game needs a way for you to replay won automatic battles. There are some baffling results that cause me to lose valuable units against armies whose strength is barely visible in the comparative strength bar. I lost a rank 7 light spearthrowers unit and a whole troop of elite heavily armored spearmen to such a fight. The auto resolve thing is bonkers in general. Penthesilea decided to attack me out of nowhere with her 20 unit army all made up of slingers and javelin throwers (literally) and even though I had reinforcements, the auto resolve told me we are going to decisively lose. I won that battle without breaking a sweat, javelin throwers and slingers can't do anything alone and are easily decimated. She got to this place only because the auto resolve favors these units so much.
 

Sarathiour

Cipher
Joined
Jun 7, 2020
Messages
3,262
I will probably get back to the game later on, i only tested achilles' campaign. I guess the focus on infantry make a change compared to the other TW, because skirmisher and flanker are more important. I indeed remember being only useful for dispatching militia and the like, and to prevent routed unit from rallying.

This game needs a way for you to replay won automatic battles. There are some baffling results that cause me to lose valuable units against armies whose strength is barely visible in the comparative strength bar. I lost a rank 7 light spearthrowers unit and a whole troop of elite heavily armored spearmen to such a fight. The auto resolve thing is bonkers in general. Penthesilea decided to attack me out of nowhere with her 20 unit army all made up of slingers and javelin throwers (literally) and even though I had reinforcements, the auto resolve told me we are going to decisively lose. I won that battle without breaking a sweat, javelin throwers and slingers can't do anything alone and are easily decimated. She got to this place only because the auto resolve favors these units so much.

They did put this option in WH2, so I guess it really show how much they care.
 

Lacrymas

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2015
Messages
18,001
Pathfinder: Wrath
I think they care. I don't see anything to suggest they don't. Their continued support and DLC even after it's clear it isn't a commercial success also points to them caring. I'm also kinda sad this doesn't get more attention, I like it more than Warhammer. There are datamined files that suggest Rhesus and Memnon might be the next DLC, which means Thracians and Egyptians. That would be extremely cool.
 

Lacrymas

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2015
Messages
18,001
Pathfinder: Wrath
I got Polyphemos yesterday (after a surprising twist that kinda ended up in my favour, but could've been less forgiving. But also ran the risk of being unfair in that case, so eh) and he's a pretty cool guy. I like his model. I'd say all the myth units in truth behind the myth mode are very creative and different than anything I've seen. I don't get the complaints about them being dudes and dudettes in cosplay. They are that, don't get me wrong, but they are cool nonetheless and not something to *complain* about. The issues people are expressing haven't made themselves apparent after 75 turns. It still isn't worse than any other modern Total War. What my complaints are are true for every other Total War game. Ok, there's one that maybe isn't true for Warhammer for example, it's kind of easy to keep up your population happiness if you concentrate on the worship of Aphrodite. Her prayer is very powerful when you have a maximum amount of favour with her. Her epic agent, the satyr, is also very powerful. He can either give ridiculous happiness and growth to a province when doing nothing, totally wreck an opposing army by giving them huge morale penalties, or immediately finish construction of ALL currently-being-built buildings in a city. The last one is extremely advantageous if you have queued up 4-5-6 buildings with long construction times. I used it to totally build up Athens from a ruin in record time. He goes away after that and you have to wait before you can recruit him again, but he's a very precious strategic resource when you get to use him. I managed to get the oracle too at one point, but used her to grant Agamemnon a few level ups by completing a mission, so I don't know what she does outside of that and don't know how to summon her again. She's probably a god agent I haven't been concentrating on.

Speaking of levels, the leveling up is a bit basic even though it seems like a huge tree at first. The heroes only go up to level 27, which might seem like a lot, but is actually easy to achieve if you do your epic missions. Most of the options are also kinda meh. You do get active buffs and abilities you use with rage, so it's not a complete dud. What I would've done maybe is remove the barely noticeable passive increases every level and give more powerful ones every 3 levels or so, or slow down the leveling significantly and have only 10 levels or something, but with more powerful effects at level up. This is also a problem in other Total War games, though, so yeah.

There is one issue specific to Troy I foresee potentially being a somewhat big problem - the placement of the factions. ALL Achaeans (Danaans) start basically neighboring each other. The furthest one being Odysseus, who starts on the nearest island to the west of the others, but he is essentially two provinces away anyway. Achilles starts a bit to the north from Ajax, but still only 2 provinces away. The others are literally next to each other. I'm going to lump in the Amazons with the Trojans because I kinda think of the two amazons as allies of Troy and analogous to Ajax and Diomedes but on the Trojan side. Only Penthesilea and Sarpedon don't start literally next to the other factions. Penthesilea is the only horde faction in the game and starts in the upper right corner north from Troy, making her the only radically different faction. This means that the starting conditions for almost all of the factions are basically the same, especially since you are heavily incentivized and basically even forced to ally with the other factions on your side. Sure, you can declare war on Hector as Paris on turn 1 (and there's even an achievement for that), but it's obvious this isn't the intention of the devs. All of this combined means the campaign is only ever different depending on the side you are on and not on the faction you choose to play. And it also means around 50%+ of the gigantic map is essentially pointless as nobody starts to the north of the Achaeans and doesn't have much incentive to go there. Maybe the idea was for it to be a neutral ground in which the two sides can battle it out for provinces, but it doesn't happen like this in practice. The AI goes across the sea and tries to take over the islands between Troy and Athens, including Penthesilea. This issue is a bit hypothetical, as I haven't played with any other faction to see whether they are indeed samey. Soooo, yeah, hopefully there's more DLC that adds factions to the north, or maybe a patch that redistributes the ones already present with a flimsy lore excuse.
 
Last edited:

Lacrymas

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2015
Messages
18,001
Pathfinder: Wrath
So, I confederated with Diomedes on turn ~90 and I found out that the administration system doesn't apply to the AI. Or at least it seems it doesn't. When I confederated with him, I immediately jumped to administration level 9 with -15k food per turn. This is obviously not sustainable if they do play by the administration rules. He had around 6 complete armies, while I had 2 with an admin level of 4. I had to disband 4 of his armies to get into positive food income again. It's obviously hard to judge with these numbers, but I also did a test confederation with Achilles who is basically the strongest faction atm and there's no way he could've sustained the armies he had if administration applied to him. I like administration, though, it keeps you from snowballing for quite a while. And there's isn't really a way to avoid it unless you sack and burn every settlement you come across and never recruit more than a single army (i.e. if you are playing like a horde faction or Penthesilea), which is good. So, yeah, confederations. They are essentially always a good thing, but you have to disband most of the armies of the confederated faction in order to not have huge income penalties and losses.
 

Lacrymas

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2015
Messages
18,001
Pathfinder: Wrath
So, I just won the campaign -
QdqC59P.jpg
I did the Homeric victory (put a pin in it) first and then decided to go for the Total War victory too because I was only 3 settlements away from it anyway. It was certainly an experience. Not a bad experience mind you, I quite liked it with a few caveats I'll get to. The battle for Troy was suitably epic. I attacked with 4 full armies and lost one and a half because Troy's garrison is full of elite top-tier units with max xp that decimated my weaklings. They were weaklings because it's very hard to actually hire upper tier units when you are deep in enemy territory. Not because the systems prohibit it, but because very few settlements have the buildings for it already built, so by the time you get to them you have already moved on and it's not worth it to go back. There is no global recruitment like in Warhammer (as it should be). The heroes carried the Troy fight hard because they are ridiculously overpowered. I had Agamemnon, Diomedes, and 2 generic generals all at max level. Diomedes is a beast, he could take down entire armies just by himself. Not only that, but heroes can bash down gates, which is very degenerate because I never needed to use siege equipment at all ever. I'm playing Truth behind the Myth btw. Next time, I'll be playing as Sarpedon on Mythos mode.

After taking control of Troy, the Homeric victory was very close. I had to bump up my influence with 4 settlements around Troy in order to win. That, however, is kinda tedious and pointless. All you do is send your diplomats to the regions you want influence with and spam their agent actions on it every round until you get it. It became an end turn simulator for the last stretch, but whatever. Homeric victory is much more satisfying, though, imo because you get to do your Iliad journey with your character and then take down Troy. The Total War victory, on the other hand, is just to possess or plunder/destroy 100 settlements, destroy or vassal/confederate 3 specific factions, get Troy, and defeat your antagonist (a character from the opposing faction you are randomly assigned at one point). For me, this was Sarpedon. He was a crafty one. He managed to confederate ALL other Trojan heroes, kill Hippolyta, and spread like cancer on his half of the map. Luckily for me, Achilles and Maneleus were so powerful by the end, they annihilated him for me. When the other faction confederates one of your Homeric victory targets (Hector and Paris in this case), the game treats them as defeated because their factions no longer exist. When we found Helen, the game gave me no options for her, but I knew this is the case beforehand.

I'd say capturing Troy is the only exciting part of endgame, but endgame is always tedious and/or boring in Total War games, so that's nothing new. Most of the battles are auto resolved because you are a bulldozer going through settlements. Speaking of bulldozers, I see literally 0 reason for you to burn down settlements. Maybe it's worth it if you are playing as Penthesilea, but who knows.

The intricate rock, paper, scissor mechanics that come into play with the light, medium, and heavy infantry don't play much of a role on normal difficulty. I had a 5-6 infantry with shields and everything else was ranged units (different kinds, though! I had harpies, slingers, javelins, Bows of Mycenae). Eh, kinda. I also had some centaurs, the minotaur, chariots (surprisingly useless). I used epic agents extensively, especially the Satyr and Gorgon. The Gorgon decimates garrisons better than any assassin. What is not so good, however, is that the campaign side of things is lacking in mechanics. I like the inclusion of different types of resources and every Total War game should have that from now on, but it still feels kinda barren and bare-bones. The problem with the different kind of resources is that they are all gained in the same way - capture settlements that produce the resource. Even though gold is scarcer, units that require gold are scarcer too, so you are constantly gaining the amount of resources you need. I was never really strapped for gold or bronze. Food and stone were actually more of a problem for the first ~70 turns, but that just meant I needed more food and stone settlements. I could also beg my allies for resources. There could be more to the resource system.

All in all, I'd say it's a good game. One of the better Total Wars. Definitely better than the bloated horror that is Warhammer. It's definitely not as bad as people make it out to be. Perhaps it was very bad when it came out, but it's fine now and I don't see the issues people were telling me about. I like the setting and a lot and that might be influencing my enjoyment, but I don't think only the setting can fool me into thinking it's a good game. Add Thracians and Egyptians for that juicy AoM vibe and it will elevate itself into top three of Total Wars.
 

Lacrymas

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2015
Messages
18,001
Pathfinder: Wrath
So, I'm trying out mythos mode with Sarpedon on Veteran/Hard and it's something alright. The game immediately pushes the myth units on you at the very beginning (you start out with centaurs and have a centaur building built already, something which isn't the case in truth behind the myth) and it keeps escalating from there.* The armies of the three big beasts start spawning 10ish turns in and they kick your shit in even with much bigger armies than them if you aren't careful. I attacked the hydra cultists and oh boy those archers who shoot poisoned arrows aren't a joke. If you defeat them you can recruit a venom priest after the battle. It seems like a lot of units were added, not just the old ones turned into actual myth units. However, there's nothing really stopping them from having most of these abilities on normal human units. The poison arrow archers are a great example. These archers are actual humans, just hydra cultists, why not have archers with poisoned arrows on the other modes as well? It seems reasonable and not too fantasy.

There is definitely a difference between the two modes that make both worth playing and add quite a bit of variety. I'm not so sure about historical mode, people are saying it's an afterthought and I believe them. The devs confirmed they are still working on this game, so we might be getting more DLC and patches soon. Hopefully.

*Which is the wrong approach imo. Maybe. Probably. The myth units should've been as scarce as in truth behind the myth, just actual myth units.
 

A horse of course

Guest
I think they care. I don't see anything to suggest they don't. Their continued support and DLC even after it's clear it isn't a commercial success also points to them caring. I'm also kinda sad this doesn't get more attention, I like it more than Warhammer. There are datamined files that suggest Rhesus and Memnon might be the next DLC, which means Thracians and Egyptians. That would be extremely cool.

I got Polyphemos yesterday (after a surprising twist that kinda ended up in my favour, but could've been less forgiving. But also ran the risk of being unfair in that case, so eh) and he's a pretty cool guy. I like his model. I'd say all the myth units in truth behind the myth mode are very creative and different than anything I've seen. I don't get the complaints about them being dudes and dudettes in cosplay. They are that, don't get me wrong, but they are cool nonetheless and not something to *complain* about. The issues people are expressing haven't made themselves apparent after 75 turns. It still isn't worse than any other modern Total War. What my complaints are are true for every other Total War game. Ok, there's one that maybe isn't true for Warhammer for example, it's kind of easy to keep up your population happiness if you concentrate on the worship of Aphrodite. Her prayer is very powerful when you have a maximum amount of favour with her. Her epic agent, the satyr, is also very powerful. He can either give ridiculous happiness and growth to a province when doing nothing, totally wreck an opposing army by giving them huge morale penalties, or immediately finish construction of ALL currently-being-built buildings in a city. The last one is extremely advantageous if you have queued up 4-5-6 buildings with long construction times. I used it to totally build up Athens from a ruin in record time. He goes away after that and you have to wait before you can recruit him again, but he's a very precious strategic resource when you get to use him. I managed to get the oracle too at one point, but used her to grant Agamemnon a few level ups by completing a mission, so I don't know what she does outside of that and don't know how to summon her again. She's probably a god agent I haven't been concentrating on.

Speaking of levels, the leveling up is a bit basic even though it seems like a huge tree at first. The heroes only go up to level 27, which might seem like a lot, but is actually easy to achieve if you do your epic missions. Most of the options are also kinda meh. You do get active buffs and abilities you use with rage, so it's not a complete dud. What I would've done maybe is remove the barely noticeable passive increases every level and give more powerful ones every 3 levels or so, or slow down the leveling significantly and have only 10 levels or something, but with more powerful effects at level up. This is also a problem in other Total War games, though, so yeah.

There is one issue specific to Troy I foresee potentially being a somewhat big problem - the placement of the factions. ALL Achaeans (Danaans) start basically neighboring each other. The furthest one being Odysseus, who starts on the nearest island to the west of the others, but he is essentially two provinces away anyway. Achilles starts a bit to the north from Ajax, but still only 2 provinces away. The others are literally next to each other. I'm going to lump in the Amazons with the Trojans because I kinda think of the two amazons as allies of Troy and analogous to Ajax and Diomedes but on the Trojan side. Only Penthesilea and Sarpedon don't start literally next to the other factions. Penthesilea is the only horde faction in the game and starts in the upper right corner north from Troy, making her the only radically different faction. This means that the starting conditions for almost all of the factions are basically the same, especially since you are heavily incentivized and basically even forced to ally with the other factions on your side. Sure, you can declare war on Hector as Paris on turn 1 (and there's even an achievement for that), but it's obvious this isn't the intention of the devs. All of this combined means the campaign is only ever different depending on the side you are on and not on the faction you choose to play. And it also means around 50%+ of the gigantic map is essentially pointless as nobody starts to the north of the Achaeans and doesn't have much incentive to go there. Maybe the idea was for it to be a neutral ground in which the two sides can battle it out for provinces, but it doesn't happen like this in practice. The AI goes across the sea and tries to take over the islands between Troy and Athens, including Penthesilea. This issue is a bit hypothetical, as I haven't played with any other faction to see whether they are indeed samey. Soooo, yeah, hopefully there's more DLC that adds factions to the north, or maybe a patch that redistributes the ones already present with a flimsy lore excuse.

So, I confederated with Diomedes on turn ~90 and I found out that the administration system doesn't apply to the AI. Or at least it seems it doesn't. When I confederated with him, I immediately jumped to administration level 9 with -15k food per turn. This is obviously not sustainable if they do play by the administration rules. He had around 6 complete armies, while I had 2 with an admin level of 4. I had to disband 4 of his armies to get into positive food income again. It's obviously hard to judge with these numbers, but I also did a test confederation with Achilles who is basically the strongest faction atm and there's no way he could've sustained the armies he had if administration applied to him. I like administration, though, it keeps you from snowballing for quite a while. And there's isn't really a way to avoid it unless you sack and burn every settlement you come across and never recruit more than a single army (i.e. if you are playing like a horde faction or Penthesilea), which is good. So, yeah, confederations. They are essentially always a good thing, but you have to disband most of the armies of the confederated faction in order to not have huge income penalties and losses.

So, I just won the campaign -

I did the Homeric victory (put a pin in it) first and then decided to go for the Total War victory too because I was only 3 settlements away from it anyway. It was certainly an experience. Not a bad experience mind you, I quite liked it with a few caveats I'll get to. The battle for Troy was suitably epic. I attacked with 4 full armies and lost one and a half because Troy's garrison is full of elite top-tier units with max xp that decimated my weaklings. They were weaklings because it's very hard to actually hire upper tier units when you are deep in enemy territory. Not because the systems prohibit it, but because very few settlements have the buildings for it already built, so by the time you get to them you have already moved on and it's not worth it to go back. There is no global recruitment like in Warhammer (as it should be). The heroes carried the Troy fight hard because they are ridiculously overpowered. I had Agamemnon, Diomedes, and 2 generic generals all at max level. Diomedes is a beast, he could take down entire armies just by himself. Not only that, but heroes can bash down gates, which is very degenerate because I never needed to use siege equipment at all ever. I'm playing Truth behind the Myth btw. Next time, I'll be playing as Sarpedon on Mythos mode.

After taking control of Troy, the Homeric victory was very close. I had to bump up my influence with 4 settlements around Troy in order to win. That, however, is kinda tedious and pointless. All you do is send your diplomats to the regions you want influence with and spam their agent actions on it every round until you get it. It became an end turn simulator for the last stretch, but whatever. Homeric victory is much more satisfying, though, imo because you get to do your Iliad journey with your character and then take down Troy. The Total War victory, on the other hand, is just to possess or plunder/destroy 100 settlements, destroy or vassal/confederate 3 specific factions, get Troy, and defeat your antagonist (a character from the opposing faction you are randomly assigned at one point). For me, this was Sarpedon. He was a crafty one. He managed to confederate ALL other Trojan heroes, kill Hippolyta, and spread like cancer on his half of the map. Luckily for me, Achilles and Maneleus were so powerful by the end, they annihilated him for me. When the other faction confederates one of your Homeric victory targets (Hector and Paris in this case), the game treats them as defeated because their factions no longer exist. When we found Helen, the game gave me no options for her, but I knew this is the case beforehand.

I'd say capturing Troy is the only exciting part of endgame, but endgame is always tedious and/or boring in Total War games, so that's nothing new. Most of the battles are auto resolved because you are a bulldozer going through settlements. Speaking of bulldozers, I see literally 0 reason for you to burn down settlements. Maybe it's worth it if you are playing as Penthesilea, but who knows.

The intricate rock, paper, scissor mechanics that come into play with the light, medium, and heavy infantry don't play much of a role on normal difficulty. I had a 5-6 infantry with shields and everything else was ranged units (different kinds, though! I had harpies, slingers, javelins, Bows of Mycenae). Eh, kinda. I also had some centaurs, the minotaur, chariots (surprisingly useless). I used epic agents extensively, especially the Satyr and Gorgon. The Gorgon decimates garrisons better than any assassin. What is not so good, however, is that the campaign side of things is lacking in mechanics. I like the inclusion of different types of resources and every Total War game should have that from now on, but it still feels kinda barren and bare-bones. The problem with the different kind of resources is that they are all gained in the same way - capture settlements that produce the resource. Even though gold is scarcer, units that require gold are scarcer too, so you are constantly gaining the amount of resources you need. I was never really strapped for gold or bronze. Food and stone were actually more of a problem for the first ~70 turns, but that just meant I needed more food and stone settlements. I could also beg my allies for resources. There could be more to the resource system.

All in all, I'd say it's a good game. One of the better Total Wars. Definitely better than the bloated horror that is Warhammer. It's definitely not as bad as people make it out to be. Perhaps it was very bad when it came out, but it's fine now and I don't see the issues people were telling me about. I like the setting and a lot and that might be influencing my enjoyment, but I don't think only the setting can fool me into thinking it's a good game. Add Thracians and Egyptians for that juicy AoM vibe and it will elevate itself into top three of Total Wars.

So, I'm trying out mythos mode with Sarpedon on Veteran/Hard and it's something alright. The game immediately pushes the myth units on you at the very beginning (you start out with centaurs and have a centaur building built already, something which isn't the case in truth behind the myth) and it keeps escalating from there.* The armies of the three big beasts start spawning 10ish turns in and they kick your shit in even with much bigger armies than them if you aren't careful. I attacked the hydra cultists and oh boy those archers who shoot poisoned arrows aren't a joke. If you defeat them you can recruit a venom priest after the battle. It seems like a lot of units were added, not just the old ones turned into actual myth units. However, there's nothing really stopping them from having most of these abilities on normal human units. The poison arrow archers are a great example. These archers are actual humans, just hydra cultists, why not have archers with poisoned arrows on the other modes as well? It seems reasonable and not too fantasy.

There is definitely a difference between the two modes that make both worth playing and add quite a bit of variety. I'm not so sure about historical mode, people are saying it's an afterthought and I believe them. The devs confirmed they are still working on this game, so we might be getting more DLC and patches soon. Hopefully.

*Which is the wrong approach imo. Maybe. Probably. The myth units should've been as scarce as in truth behind the myth, just actual myth units.



Seek mental health assistance immediately
 

Lacrymas

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2015
Messages
18,001
Pathfinder: Wrath
First of all, no mental health professional can help me. Second of all, Troy is the best contemporary Total War and I'm sad it gets such undeserved bad rep.
 

zapotec

Liturgist
Joined
Feb 7, 2018
Messages
1,498
Would be cool if there is an universe merge and the blind guy from the first warhammer is nothing more than Homerus himself""""!!!!
 

Lacrymas

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2015
Messages
18,001
Pathfinder: Wrath
First of all, no mental health professional can help me. Second of all, Troy is the best contemporary Total War and I'm sad it gets such undeserved bad rep.

Really ? Define contemporean. And which one did you play ?
Warhammer, Thrones of Britannia, Three Kingdoms, Rome Remastered, and Troy are contemporary Total Wars. Outside of Troy, I've played Warhammer and Rome Remastered. ToB is notoriously shit and Three Kingdoms is unfinished. Warhammer is bloated and the ranged-heavy meta damages diversity. Rome could've been better. Troy is excellent.
 

fizzelopeguss

Arcane
Joined
Oct 1, 2004
Messages
843
Location
Equality Street.
Game is another piece of abandonware.

I tried it yesterday, but didn't have much time to play. What with Wrath also coming out. First impressions is that it's a modern Total War. It's not worse than WH by any means. It might actually be better because the archers aren't as prevalent. The maps are prettier and don't suffer from the very strange lighting issues that WH2 does. I'm going with the original truth behind the myth thing to see what's about and playing as Agamemnon. Yeah, it's basically the same. I don't know what people don't like about it.

It's not queerhammer, that's why it didn't do so well. This is a warhammerized TW and still they weren't interested. Settlement maps were back and the battles weren't a complete clusterfuck -not that they care, warhammer fags auto resolve everything anyway.

The game ran on a variant of the engine that wasn't completely hideous to look at. And it launched with a functional campaign.
 

Lacrymas

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2015
Messages
18,001
Pathfinder: Wrath
It depends on your definition of abandonware. It got 3 smallish DLCs (Amazons, Ajax & Diomedes, Rhesus & Memnon) that added much more diversity than a Warhammer lord pack ever did and the huge expansion-like Mythos that gave us 2 completely new ways to play the game (let's hope the next patch addresses historical mode's issues). It's not abandoned the same way Three Kingdoms is. If the big youtubers stop tongue-bathing Warhammer's balls for a few seconds and try to appreciate Troy, Troy might get a resurgence in popularity and get a few more DLCs. I know it's not going to happen, but still.

Troy absolutely deserves popularity after so much tweaking and DLC, but people, especially youtubers, still regurgitate old issues that have already been fixed for half a year or more.
 
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Dwarvophile

Liturgist
Joined
Dec 1, 2015
Messages
1,438
First of all, no mental health professional can help me. Second of all, Troy is the best contemporary Total War and I'm sad it gets such undeserved bad rep.

Really ? Define contemporean. And which one did you play ?
Warhammer, Thrones of Britannia, Three Kingdoms, Rome Remastered, and Troy are contemporary Total Wars. Outside of Troy, I've played Warhammer and Rome Remastered. ToB is notoriously shit and Three Kingdoms is unfinished. Warhammer is bloated and the ranged-heavy meta damages diversity. Rome could've been better. Troy is excellent.

I think Three Kingdom's campaign mechanics were pretty neat and achieved. Would be perfect for a new feodal period game (medieval europe or even sengoku jidai).
 

Mazisky

Magister
Joined
Mar 8, 2015
Messages
2,082
Location
Rome, IT
I don't know how Troy manages to be the best looking Total War to date and the best optimized at the same time. I think this and Shogun2 are the only Total War games that do not run or look bad.
 

Lacrymas

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2015
Messages
18,001
Pathfinder: Wrath
Rhesus and Memnon DLC has been released.

I'm very happy we got more DLC for the best contemporary Total War. Which is a statement I still stand behind and you bitches be wrong.
 

Fedora Master

Arcane
Patron
Edgy
Joined
Jun 28, 2017
Messages
28,041
CA just can't help themselves, can they. Gotta have niggers and womyn, because nigs and foids are ALL ABOUT ancient Greek history.
 

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