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Deus Ex Deus Ex: Mankind Divided

Ninjerk

Arcane
Joined
Jul 10, 2013
Messages
14,323
I finished MD just yesterday and am still mulling it over. Well, I liked it better than HR (I really didn't like HR) at least. I guess MD is a good game, just doesn't feel like Deus Ex.

I really liked Prague. Exploring the city is my favourite thing in the game. I liked the hacking minigame, probably the second best hacking minigame in these type of games (after System Shock 1) but this was already present in HR.

Occasionally I got bit bored (in Golem City and near the end of the game) and just rushed through...

I don't know what else to say.
It's exactly the city exploration that gave me that DX1 feel (and to a lesser extent EM seemed to give more dialogue control in terms of expressing the character the way you wanted to instead of DXHR's irritating Jensen).
 

AW8

Arcane
Joined
Mar 1, 2013
Messages
1,852
Location
North of Poland
Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
There are basically 2 overarching themes in the nu-Deus Exes that go unexplored - the control of media (especially news media)
there is no way this will ever get addressed
It's already been explored.

First in HR, when you break into the headquarters of news giant Picus and find news footage in the process of being faked to control the narrative, as well as learning that the news anchor Eliza Cassan who you been seeing on screens everywhere in the world is actually an Illuminati AI constructed to control people's reactions.



Throughout the game, Picus turns opinion against Sarif Industries (which they don't control) while painting Tai Yong Medical and Humanity Front in a good light (organizations they do control).

Late in the game, a Picus broadcast urges augmented to replace their "faulty" biochips with new ones that the Illuminati can selectively turn off to control augmented people. The attentive player will ignore the recall since it's already been revealed that the news is controlled by the enemy, leading to a humorous scene where Zhao is unable to shut down your augmentations for the Namir boss battle.

And then in MD, Picus is pushing the Human Restoration Act throughout the whole game - a UN resolution intended to complete the Illuminati's scheme to control augmented people that they failed to pull off in the last game.

You also have the Samizdat side mission, where you break into a bank vault to find proof that Picus faked the cause of a plane crash (claiming a crazed augmented man broke into the cockpit) to hide the existence of the secret military base that brought down the plane. You can upload the proof onto huge advertisment screens, but it obviously won't change anything.
Both because Picus is powerful enough to spin it as fake news, but also because the Illuminati is still secret in 2052. Jensen will never be able to convince the world that Picus is owned by a secret society that use the news to control the world, because that would contradict the events of the original Deus Ex.
 

Lacrymas

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2015
Messages
17,949
Pathfinder: Wrath
There are basically 2 overarching themes in the nu-Deus Exes that go unexplored - the control of media (especially news media)
there is no way this will ever get addressed
It's already been explored.

First in HR, when you break into the headquarters of news giant Picus and find news footage in the process of being faked to control the narrative, as well as learning that the news anchor Eliza Cassan who you been seeing on screens everywhere in the world is actually an Illuminati AI constructed to control people's reactions.



Throughout the game, Picus turns opinion against Sarif Industries (which they don't control) while painting Tai Yong Medical and Humanity Front in a good light (organizations they do control).

Late in the game, a Picus broadcast urges augmented to replace their "faulty" biochips with new ones that the Illuminati can selectively turn off to control augmented people. The attentive player will ignore the recall since it's already been revealed that the news is controlled by the enemy, leading to a humorous scene where Zhao is unable to shut down your augmentations for the Namir boss battle.

And then in MD, Picus is pushing the Human Restoration Act throughout the whole game - a UN resolution intended to complete the Illuminati's scheme to control augmented people that they failed to pull off in the last game.

You also have the Samizdat side mission, where you break into a bank vault to find proof that Picus faked the cause of a plane crash (claiming a crazed augmented man broke into the cockpit) to hide the existence of the secret military base that brought down the plane. You can upload the proof onto huge advertisment screens, but it obviously won't change anything.
Both because Picus is powerful enough to spin it as fake news, but also because the Illuminati is still secret in 2052. Jensen will never be able to convince the world that Picus is owned by a secret society that use the news to control the world, because that would contradict the events of the original Deus Ex.

You could argue the aug incident was caused in part due to the control of Picus, but what does that really say? And if anti-augmented sentiments are analogous to racism, what does that mean? ...Causing black people to rampage is bad?
 

Atlantico

unida e indivisible
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Undisputed Queen of Faggotry Vatnik In My Safe Space
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Make the Codex Great Again!
You could argue the aug incident was caused in part due to the control of Picus, but what does that really say? And if anti-augmented sentiments are analogous to racism, what does that mean? ...Causing black people to rampage is bad?

I would say that's the fundamental narrative flaw with the nuDX games, they don't really have a good point to make or a story to tell.
 

TemplarGR

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I would say that's the fundamental narrative flaw with the nuDX games, they don't really have a good point to make or a story to tell.

This couldn't be more wrong. They both have an excellent story, one of the best stories in gaming, and they do make good points about various real life issues. They are excellent games, it is just that it will take time for the morons who insist only 50 year old games are good (tm) to die from old age and cancer, and younger people to grow old enough to come to the codex and tell future teenagers that back in their age Human Revolution and Mankind Divided were awesome and their 2030s games are garbage.
 

Atlantico

unida e indivisible
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Undisputed Queen of Faggotry Vatnik In My Safe Space
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Make the Codex Great Again!
This couldn't be more wrong. They both have an excellent story, one of the best stories in gaming, and they do make good points about various real life issues.

Cool. No need to tell me it has a story. Just explain it. What is the story?
 
Joined
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Messages
979
I would say that's the fundamental narrative flaw with the nuDX games, they don't really have a good point to make or a story to tell.

Thanks to this thread I just remembered I had played through Human Resources about 80% then forgot to finish it. Or did I? I had to look up the ending on Youtube to make sure. Nope, never seen it.
 

J1M

Arcane
Joined
May 14, 2008
Messages
14,616
I would say that's the fundamental narrative flaw with the nuDX games, they don't really have a good point to make or a story to tell.

This couldn't be more wrong. They both have an excellent story, one of the best stories in gaming, and they do make good points about various real life issues. They are excellent games, it is just that it will take time for the morons who insist only 50 year old games are good (tm) to die from old age and cancer, and younger people to grow old enough to come to the codex and tell future teenagers that back in their age Human Revolution and Mankind Divided were awesome and their 2030s games are garbage.
I wanted a game that touched on half a dozen fun conspiracies, not one conspiracy stretched across a trilogy that I already know the ending of.
 

J1M

Arcane
Joined
May 14, 2008
Messages
14,616
This couldn't be more wrong. They both have an excellent story, one of the best stories in gaming, and they do make good points about various real life issues.

Cool. No need to tell me it has a story. Just explain it. What is the story?
Corporate said to make a Deus Ex prequel because that seemed closer in proximity to the more popular entry in the series.

Story lead found a couple of books in Deus Ex about events before the game. A civil war with augs sounded like it had the highest explosion ratio.

One idea is less work than three, so use it for the whole trilogy!
 
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kites

samsung verizon hitachi
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hyperborean trench town
RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut
Story lead found a couple of books in Deus Ex about events before the game. A civil war with augs sounded like it had the highest explosion ratio.

i doubt many people who played these had touched dx1; there are so many possibilities for rebooting/remixing/re-contextualizing/whatever a series that was focused on conspiracy webs and dark futures, that i don't see the point of being faithful to the original in that way. especially when these games don't seem to have much affection for the og in terms of tone/atmosphere. outside of some of the veneer it's hard to see them being in the same series. i wish they had just called them something else and let dx1 rest in peace

nice quote on "cyberpunk" imagination of today - all signal, no noise
As far as I can tell, what the term is really good for now is as a fashion descriptor. Like if you say, “The guy over there with the really cyberpunk haircut. Check out those cyberpunk leggings she’s wearing.”
 

Funposter

Arcane
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Messages
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Location
Australia
nice quote on "cyberpunk" imagination of today - all signal, no noise
As far as I can tell, what the term is really good for now is as a fashion descriptor. Like if you say, “The guy over there with the really cyberpunk haircut. Check out those cyberpunk leggings she’s wearing.”

Of today?

mL9a75H.jpg
 

Chippy

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Messages
6,037
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Playing this piece of shit game again. Well, it's not really a game, it's just a movie with hacking minigame thrown in and the player moving Adam Jensen around to interact with people and tell a story. You could play this game without any of the augs it's that easy. Only time I've died so far was when I fell down sewer manholes about 3 times - so bored I wasn't even paying attention. And that stupid fucking boss battle with the aug harvester woman. I just killed her the first time round by chucking grenade after grenade at her, then reloaded and tried to spice it up a bit by hacking the turrets. Then she flanked me and shot me dead in less than a second even though Jensen was fully augmented with dermal armour augs. Didn't even have time to press escape from the turret hacking.

Reloaded again and killed her in seconds using other means. 1-shot rock, paper, scissors does not make good boss battles. Especially when you don't even have to use any of your augmentations, skills you've learned in the game so far, or if you do use them its just nuke > rock, paper, scissors. I see they learned nothing whatsoever from the shit boss battles in the first game.

Also it plays like it's half-finished. The rag doll physics are broken, getting me caught more than once as they bug out through doors and get glued to walls. The characters leaning against walls and sitting down is infuriating: I threw a gas canister into a room and the guards standing up got effected, but the one sitting down didn't. Then I move into the room and he spots me before the game 'realises' he's meant to be under the effects of the gas. Other guards see you for no fucking reason: they're facing right ahead, and see you approaching at 120 degrees.

Multiple other glitchy shit that just causes you to become a save-scummer as you expect the game to glitch per encounter. Only playing this because of the lore before I play Deus Ex again with that awesome GDX mod. Then gonna shelf it and never play this piece of shit again. Just like Human Revolution.

:x
 

Maggot

Arcane
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Joined
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Messages
1,243
Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire
Are the DLCs worth playing? I only tried one for a bit after finishing the main game but it seemed to teleport you around everywhere and resets your progression.
 

adddeed

Arcane
Possibly Retarded
Joined
May 27, 2012
Messages
1,473
Playing this piece of shit game again. Well, it's not really a game, it's just a movie with hacking minigame thrown in and the player moving Adam Jensen around to interact with people and tell a story. You could play this game without any of the augs it's that easy. Only time I've died so far was when I fell down sewer manholes about 3 times - so bored I wasn't even paying attention. And that stupid fucking boss battle with the aug harvester woman. I just killed her the first time round by chucking grenade after grenade at her, then reloaded and tried to spice it up a bit by hacking the turrets. Then she flanked me and shot me dead in less than a second even though Jensen was fully augmented with dermal armour augs. Didn't even have time to press escape from the turret hacking.

Reloaded again and killed her in seconds using other means. 1-shot rock, paper, scissors does not make good boss battles. Especially when you don't even have to use any of your augmentations, skills you've learned in the game so far, or if you do use them its just nuke > rock, paper, scissors. I see they learned nothing whatsoever from the shit boss battles in the first game.

Also it plays like it's half-finished. The rag doll physics are broken, getting me caught more than once as they bug out through doors and get glued to walls. The characters leaning against walls and sitting down is infuriating: I threw a gas canister into a room and the guards standing up got effected, but the one sitting down didn't. Then I move into the room and he spots me before the game 'realises' he's meant to be under the effects of the gas. Other guards see you for no fucking reason: they're facing right ahead, and see you approaching at 120 degrees.

Multiple other glitchy shit that just causes you to become a save-scummer as you expect the game to glitch per encounter. Only playing this because of the lore before I play Deus Ex again with that awesome GDX mod. Then gonna shelf it and never play this piece of shit again. Just like Human Revolution.

:x
Fuckin retard.
 

Gargaune

Magister
Joined
Mar 12, 2020
Messages
3,136
Are the DLCs worth playing? I only tried one for a bit after finishing the main game but it seemed to teleport you around everywhere and resets your progression.
Yeah, they are. The first one's a single, short mission that was probably meant to be in the OC but didn't make the cut. The second's a proper, standalone job set at some point after the OC, pretty good all around. And the third is a proper tour de force for Eidos Montreal, an unrelated assignment from Jensen's recent past which features some of the best level design since the original Deus Ex.
 

Silva

Arcane
Joined
Jul 17, 2005
Messages
4,778
Location
Rio de Janeiro, Brasil
Are the DLCs worth playing? I only tried one for a bit after finishing the main game but it seemed to teleport you around everywhere and resets your progression.
Yeah, they are. The first one's a single, short mission that was probably meant to be in the OC but didn't make the cut. The second's a proper, standalone job set at some point after the OC, pretty good all around. And the third is a proper tour de force for Eidos Montreal, an unrelated assignment from Jensen's recent past which features some of the best level design since the original Deus Ex.
Which is the prison one?
 

DeepOcean

Arcane
Joined
Nov 8, 2012
Messages
7,394
Are the DLCs worth playing? I only tried one for a bit after finishing the main game but it seemed to teleport you around everywhere and resets your progression.
I played them after I finished Cyberbug, I was so disappointed and wanted some cyberpunkish game that was decent.

System Rift:
The best level of base Mankind divided but in reality, this level should ever be a DLC and should had been integrated on the base game as it was originally planned before it was cut for budget reasons. On Mankind Divided, the Hub area pretty much steals the show and all the "proper" immersive sim levels felt pretty straightforward, none reached Dishonored levels of complexity and architectural mastery, this one isnt different, it isn't a bad DLC but it is something some people might find underwhelming playing as an isolated DLC. It is a typical Deus Ex Mankind Divided level, just a bit bigger and longer because it is a DLC.

Criminal Past:
This one is much more interesting. The best mission Eidos Montreal created for the two Deus Exs they made, this mission happens on a prison complex and for my surprise, it is indeed looks and plays like a prison complex and not some gamey level, levels on both Eidos Montreal games tend to be "gamey", they are made with gameplay in mind and they are bend and twisted to fit gameplay needs. Eidos Montreal had serious difficulties in trying to shape a space that looked unique, supported gameplay and felt real like Arkane does, a level that looked organic AND was fun to play.

This one achieves all this and to be frank, it plays like a completely different company made it. It is obvious the Eidos Montreal team was finally getting how to make an immersive sim level by the time they made this level, it was a pity that the team probably scattered all over the place at this point and that experience was lost. Imagine if that team had made another game before the Marvel capetard retardation?
 
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Alphons

Cipher
Joined
Nov 20, 2019
Messages
2,557
It's nowhere near as good as the actual DLCs which are sprawling and complex, but The Fall is still nice in its own way precisely because it's small and short. As a full game it's wholly unremarkable, but as a DLC it's an ok little standalone story, one of these smaller shorter spin-offs that are welcome when you want a quick fix and can't be bothered tackling behemoth main games.

You mean that shitty port of an unfinished mobile game?
 

Chippy

Arcane
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Joined
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Messages
6,037
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Chippy, I see your six-month term in Cyberpunkland hasn't produced corrective outcomes. Would you like to go to Invisible War Island next?

I'm trying. I'm really fucking trying to like this game. Still haven't finished it. I think I actually preferred Invisible War to this piece of shit. I'm currently in lockdown Prague, but here's a simple comparison to Deus Ex 1: where are the enemies? In Deus Ex 1 there was this moment where it was made clear who the assholes were. You could unleash all your augmentations on them and feel good about it.

-I'm assuming this game has yet to find its stride in that department?. Maybe on the 5th or 6th visit to Prague by the end of the game? The frenchies are so concerned about the shades of grey and moral ambiguity in this game that they've forgotten how to just make assholes. Funny, since the whole of France is full of them. :troll:

I just wanna fucking shoot someone. That was the best thing about the first game: you played by the rules and then all hell broke loose. But here...ther's more hacking than shooting. It's not even like the hacking is fun. Like Gwent in W3. WHoever created the hacking game needs their balls crushed in a vice.:argh:
 
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