KickStarter Grim Dawn

[rusty_shackleford]

"Diablo 2 clone" is hardly established terminology.

 

[Peachcurl]

And now substract the false positives.

 

[Peachcurl]

Yeah, I know.

PS: never trust the rust

 

[Efe]

Ii get 110k too

 

[Pink Eye]

omg u retardos
Rusty: Water is Wet
Hurr durr: Water is not wet. just because its liquid doesn't mean its wet. durrrrr

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

Can someone moderate these boards from time to time? Infinitron I've heard Obsidian loves Grim Dawn and Josh Sawyer is about to make some retarded social media posts on it that will be very quotable.

 

[Peachcurl]

Ii get 110k too

Huh. I blame Covid.

 

[Pink Eye]

I get one million results with a list of top diablo 2 clones and a reddit thread about the best diablo clones. Merry Christmas!

 

[Lone Wolf]

In this thread: various retards confuse 'Diablo clone' with 'ARPG, a genre established by Diablo'. The same various retards, however, take umbrage at the idea that every FPS should be called 'Wolfenstein 3D clone', because what's really changed, when you imbecilically reduce all iterative changes to absurdity? Nothing at all, homes.

If ARPG = Diablo clone, then there's no need to use 'ARPG'. I wonder what terminology they use to categorise these many, many Diablo clones, though. I'll wait until you find out.

Dipshittery abounds, profanely.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

In this thread: various retards confuse 'Diablo clone' with 'ARPG, a genre established by Diablo'. The same various retards, however, take umbrage at the idea that every FPS should be called 'Wolfenstein 3D clone', because what's really changed, when you imbecilically reduce all iterative changes to absurdity? Nothing at all, homes.

If ARPG = Diablo clone, then there's no need to use 'ARPG'. I wonder what terminology they use to categorise these many, many Diablo clones, though. I'll wait until you find out.

Dipshittery abounds, profanely.

Why would games that barely qualify as an RPG to begin with get the exclusive labeling of ARPG?

 

[Divine Blessing]

ARPG is categorised as a subgenre to (the overall or prime genre of) RPGs.
ARPGs rnt limited to "Diablo-clones", but contain a varied spectrum from Soulslike to Roguelike, 2-D Platformers (Jump n Runs with RPG Elements, eg Salt n Sanctuary) etc.

ARPGs true origin r Beat-Em-Up Sidescrollers with RPG elements - Golden Axe, Final Fight.

but the determining limits of ARPG have evolved since the 16 bit era and while Diablo obv. was an evolution on the (sub)genre, neither of those have been fun for me (so i didnt play them to suffienctly quantify a sophisticated opinion, as i dont play unfun games). but GD is fun (to me), and this, albeit emotional, distinction allows me to suspect some integral differences in design between GD and Diablo.

GDs haptic just feels much more fluid and also consistent, which fits the theme park meme on MMOs: the gameplay became more quick and responsive (dopamin shower?), the micro-loops grew more detail and the macro-loop more content, encounter frequency, build and itemisation diversity, overall progression pacing etc and therefore Player Agenda became a prime design parameter in the second post 2k decade.

and even without sufficient empiric knowledge on Diablo (i couldnt endure d3 more than boring 20min), GDs gameplay may feel similiar, but more different. its like the same recipe prepared by 2 different cooks, one just happens to favor a more dry approach with salt, while the other highlights its natural qualities.

i was surprised though, how heavy on RPG elements GD is. it really delivers the dystopian, post-apocalyptic fantasy without any sci-fi. like the "base building" of Devils Crossing and the various side-themes on the road to (maybe not) extinction. i dont recall any C&C (other than builds ofc, although C&C usually is referred to story progression, but the character is the first and most important choice, which consequence (ideally) impact the playtru) in Diablo.

 

[Shaki]

"Diablo 2 clone" is hardly established terminology.

 

[flyingjohn]

Finished the game on elite and i have no interest in going ultimate.
Every single difficulty falls off a cliff after the warden.
Also,every single act besides act 1 and opening dlc areas are just boring.Reminded me a lot of the worst qualities present in titan quest minus graphical variety.

Also i am sick and tired from arpg's locking max lvl enemies in harder difficulties.Buff enemies,don't hide levels behind replay ability of something that gets repetitive.
Or,add interesting difficulty modifiers or something.
Oh and fuck you crate for requiring mules and not giving easy access to money transfer to buy stash space.You already made iron bars,just make the forgotten gods expansion portal appear earlier.

It is probably the best isometric arpg's released after diablo 2.Unless you value a open world,and in that case sacred 2 is uniquely bad.

 

[Lacrymas]

GD does have difficulty modifiers in the roguelike dungeons, optional areas, shards, and crucible.

 

[Shackleton]

Finished the game on elite and i have no interest in going ultimate.
Every single difficulty falls off a cliff after the warden.
Also,every single act besides act 1 and opening dlc areas are just boring.Reminded me a lot of the worst qualities present in titan quest minus graphical variety.

Also i am sick and tired from arpg's locking max lvl enemies in harder difficulties.Buff enemies,don't hide levels behind replay ability of something that gets repetitive.
Or,add interesting difficulty modifiers or something.
Oh and fuck you crate for requiring mules and not giving easy access to money transfer to buy stash space.You already made iron bars,just make the forgotten gods expansion portal appear earlier.

It is probably the best isometric arpg's released after diablo 2.Unless you value a open world,and in that case sacred 2 is uniquely bad.

It's tough to admit, but you do not need mules. You don't need to stash every blue, just vendor it if you don't need it for your current char and it's not a set. Really, only empowered sets are worth keeping as you can always use self-found in normal for every char up to about level 50/60. I would guarantee you have a shit load of lvl 20-40 blues filling your stash that will never be really needed. Keep moster infrequents, legendaries and empowered sets and your stash size is fine.

 

[Lacrymas]

I choose my next character depending on what blues I find to twink with and I always have the most fun in these games in the early to mid-game where individual items matter more and aren't lost in all the noise.

 

[Shackleton]

I know, I've got 5 characters that all stopped after completing normal about lvl 60-62. Running a DW pistol fire strike purifier now that right-click deletes everything and I think I might take him through Elite finally as it's a lot of fun, albeit only step above an idle game.

 

[Divine Blessing]

50 hrs in on my Martyr build (Leech Defiler) the plot compliments the high-frequency gameplay with its responsive twists and turns supported via solid C&C - the development of a 2 front war with factions trying to regain and claim more territory escalates the basic narrative of power in an illustrative context (even in risk of extinction mankind fights over power).
i like the vibrant aura of dystopian emergency, which especially in colourful areas (ex. Ugdenbog) feels even more grim, cuz of the contrast. the plot pushes from quest to side-content, there are caves, mines, dungeons etc., exploration is another highlight of Grim Dawn.

but the absence of dragons is irritating. while the bestiary features a voluminous diversity - from standard like undead, harpies, spiders, witches, wraiths etc to exotics like (carnivorous) plants, swarms and treants - there r neither reptiles nor any dragon to be found yet (there r crabs...)
i came to reflect on the meaning of dragons in (mythological and fantasy) fiction, from Merlins omen to Tolkiens bred beast (Morgoth), Dragons served the complete spectrum of fantasy (plot) tropes and roles. from evil master mind to ascended divinity, they never have been filler material, but super-stars of fantasy - fantasy wouldnt be fantasy without dragons.

although personally i dislike dragons, with the very exception for ShadowRuns Dunkelzahn (see Jake Kokes trilogy SR 29 -33) and Grisu, dragons would have been a great additon to plot and bestiary. either as faction to ally with mankind on the very edge of doom (and in consequence joining the power struggle for control), at least as corrupted beasts or both.

cuz some boss encounters remind to hard on those bowl-fights, where the boss is stationary, while the encounter platform is swarmed by mobs (ex. Kil Jaeden Sunwell), like Loghorrean, while others feel like empowered mobs. dragons would have been an exclusive distinction (if done quality), cuz they r rare, mobile and mighty and offer a variety of attack features. the - although still entertaining - bossfights r maybe one of GD greatest weaknesses, as quality builds just sit trough, without the need for movement or advanced tactics.

overall the importance of dragons in fantasy fiction is not one of exotism, but the true and existential nature of fantasy itself. where myths shape reality and become more than a vision or (meme container), not just a feature, not simply a high-light, but a statement:
there is always something greater incorporated in magical beasts, that defies the physical laws of nature and bring the essence of existence into life. even in contrast, when dragons r just supernatural beasts, they deliver an opportunity for mankind (in mythology, in games represented by the player) to grow beyond its existential (and cognitive) limits...

 

[Shackleton]

50 hrs in on my Martyr build (Leech Defiler) the plot compliments the high-frequency gameplay with its responsive twists and turns supported via solid C&C - the development of a 2 front war with factions trying to regain and claim more territory escalates the basic narrative of power in an illustrative context (even in risk of extinction mankind fights over power).
i like the vibrant aura of dystopian emergency, which especially in colourful areas (ex. Ugdenbog) feels even more grim, cuz of the contrast. the plot pushes from quest to side-content, there are caves, mines, dungeons etc., exploration is another highlight of Grim Dawn.

but the absence of dragons is irritating. while the bestiary features a voluminous diversity - from standard like undead, harpies, spiders, witches, wraiths etc to exotics like (carnivorous) plants, swarms and treants - there r neither reptiles nor any dragon to be found yet (there r crabs...)
i came to reflect on the meaning of dragons in (mythological and fantasy) fiction, from Merlins omen to Tolkiens bred beast (Morgoth), Dragons served the complete spectrum of fantasy (plot) tropes and roles. from evil master mind to ascended divinity, they never have been filler material, but super-stars of fantasy - fantasy wouldnt be fantasy without dragons.

although personally i dislike dragons, with the very exception for ShadowRuns Dunkelzahn (see Jake Kokes trilogy SR 29 -33) and Grisu, dragons would have been a great additon to plot and bestiary. either as faction to ally with mankind on the very edge of doom (and in consequence joining the power struggle for control), at least as corrupted beasts or both.

cuz some boss encounters remind to hard on those bowl-fights, where the boss is stationary, while the encounter platform is swarmed by mobs (ex. Kil Jaeden Sunwell), like Loghorrean, while others feel like empowered mobs. dragons would have been an exclusive distinction (if done quality), cuz they r rare, mobile and mighty and offer a variety of attack features. the - although still entertaining - bossfights r maybe one of GD greatest weaknesses, as quality builds just sit trough, without the need for movement or advanced tactics.

overall the importance of dragons in fantasy fiction is not one of exotism, but the true and existential nature of fantasy itself. where myths shape reality and become more than a vision or (meme container), not just a feature, not simply a high-light, but a statement:
there is always something greater incorporated in magical beasts, that defies the physical laws of nature and bring the essence of existence into life. even in contrast, when dragons r just supernatural beasts, they deliver an opportunity for mankind (in mythology, in games represented by the player) to grow beyond its existential (and cognitive) limits...

Forgotten Gods has a small section of reptiles, including a named mob that resembles a dinosaur, but no, no dragons.

I read something recently responding to a post asking why there are no bows, that the lead dev was sick of traditional fantasy tropes and wanted a different setting so dragons are probably a victim of that.

Personally, I've played for 230 hours or so and can honestly say I've never thought "why aren't there dragons?" but each to their own.

 

[Lone Wolf]

there r neither reptiles

Eh? Sliths (Act 1) and Basilisks (Act 5) are definitely reptiles.

The Korvan Titanovore is probably as close as it gets to a dragon:

 

[Lacrymas]

This is on the same level as "I can't enjoy a game if it doesn't have a day/night cycle".

 

[rusty_shackleford]

there's a bunch of dragon skeletons strewn about, especially in the void areas
well
things with skeletons that look like dragons anyways

 

[Lacrymas]

Actually, what is up with the void areas? What/where are they and why are they filled with bones and skeletons? Lorewise I mean.

 

[Lone Wolf]

According to Zantai:

The void is a hellscape, a place of misery and pain, the antithesis of life. It is where the dying god was cast out when he was torn asunder, never quite capable of fully dying.

So, basically, you've got Ch'thon and the detritus of life (Ch'thonic spawn, skeletons, bones etc). I believe the spawn come directly from his blood (err, like humans) and the bones are what's left of some of their mightiest manifestations.

 

[Lacrymas]

Is that the last boss in AoM? He's actually too involved for this kind of game and I don't think anybody runs him outside of story reasons. There's a reason he doesn't appear in the Crucible (does he? I think he doesn't).