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How Will WOTC New Approach to Races Effect the Future CRPG?

SharkClub

Prophet
Patron
Joined
May 27, 2010
Messages
1,508
Strap Yourselves In
orcv1-01.jpg
 

KeighnMcDeath

RPG Codex Boomer
Joined
Nov 23, 2016
Messages
12,867
I can't imagine the other "villains" inside. I'll take it that is Xanathar. Drizzt is pribably in there and eho the hell knows whag else.

It must not be popular since I can't find it anywhere in my sailing.
I don't recall if it was a google ad originally or someone linked it to me as we were bashing 5e and the bullshit. Odd, but drivethru doesn't have it but DMs Guild does. The author of QUEERCODED is a furry dude called Oliver Darkshire on DM's GUILD.
 

JamesDixon

GM Extraordinaire
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Dumbfuck
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11,178
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In the ether
Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut
I can't imagine the other "villains" inside. I'll take it that is Xanathar. Drizzt is pribably in there and eho the hell knows whag else.

It must not be popular since I can't find it anywhere in my sailing.
I don't recall if it was a google ad originally or someone linked it to me as we were bashing 5e and the bullshit. Odd, but drivethru doesn't have it but DMs Guild does. The author of QUEERCODED is a furry dude called Oliver Darkshire on DM's GUILD.

Well thanks for giving me nightmare fuel. :lol:

I don't even know if this crap sells since all the SJWs just seem to whine about stuff then never buy the product. They literally are a market that a company will go broke catering to.
 

KeighnMcDeath

RPG Codex Boomer
Joined
Nov 23, 2016
Messages
12,867
I'll give props to authors who sell this rubbish and make a profit. They supply something that is demanded by some. Hard to believe any would even pirate it much less purchase it. I suppose most WOKE assholes just want to infiltrate and destroy what goes against their agenda. They don't give a fuck about the IP. Cucks apologize to them and get stomped into shit.

NEVER APOLOGIZE!

It is why I go overboard and become extremely bigoted to send such people into frenzies. Sure, ignoring them can work but seeing them go ballistic is amusing. Often, they just lock you out or get you banned. Twitter and a few sites have done that to me.

I enjoy the codex because anybody can post an opinion. I'd be perma ip banned from hundreds of sites compared to here.
 

KeighnMcDeath

RPG Codex Boomer
Joined
Nov 23, 2016
Messages
12,867
Lol, look what just popped up.

Her.... or that thing (from DMs guild) watching you while you sleep?
 
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PorkaMorka

Arcane
Joined
Feb 19, 2008
Messages
5,090
The retards say:
1) Orcs are dumb, violent and dark-skinned, so they MUST be analogues for blacks.
2) SINCE orcs are analogues for blacks, they mustn't be portrayed as dumb and violent, because that's racist. Fucking brilliant, I love circular arguments.

Furthermore, that the fantasy genre in general, and D&D in particular, is derived from Tolkien's creation is a fact. Tolkien in his turn drew heavily on old, Norse/Germanic myths and legends, in which evil, dark and traitorous creatures are prevalent (trolls, goblins, dark dwarfs/elves [nibelungen], jötnar, etc -- call them what you will). These serve as the basis for evil creatures, such as orcs, in his Middle-Earth and by extension for orcs in D&D. Since the ancient Scandinavians and Teutons had never even seen a single fucking black person when they envisioned their myths, one should think that it would be a bit illogical to equate dark-skinned people with orcs (or any other fantasy being), but what do I know?

I blame Blizzard.

Back before the LOTR movies and Warcraft games, Tolkien Orcs did not have any resemblance to blacks. It would be a huge stretch to make the comparison, because Orcs were obviously more advanced than blacks, using metal armor and European / Middle Eastern style weapons. Which made them more worthy as opponents for civilized adventurers. Savages who don't wear armor tended to have low defensive stats.

However, the Warcraft games and especially World of Warcraft, did kind of turn orcs into a stand in for Bantus, by making them more primitive and savage, fighting in their underwear and living in huts in the middle of a savanna, ironically this was part of an attempt to make orcs less evil and turn them into noble savages.

:decline: of Orcs.
 

FriendlyMerchant

Guest
The retards say:
1) Orcs are dumb, violent and dark-skinned, so they MUST be analogues for blacks.
2) SINCE orcs are analogues for blacks, they mustn't be portrayed as dumb and violent, because that's racist. Fucking brilliant, I love circular arguments.

Furthermore, that the fantasy genre in general, and D&D in particular, is derived from Tolkien's creation is a fact. Tolkien in his turn drew heavily on old, Norse/Germanic myths and legends, in which evil, dark and traitorous creatures are prevalent (trolls, goblins, dark dwarfs/elves [nibelungen], jötnar, etc -- call them what you will). These serve as the basis for evil creatures, such as orcs, in his Middle-Earth and by extension for orcs in D&D. Since the ancient Scandinavians and Teutons had never even seen a single fucking black person when they envisioned their myths, one should think that it would be a bit illogical to equate dark-skinned people with orcs (or any other fantasy being), but what do I know?

I blame Blizzard.

Back before the LOTR movies and Warcraft games, Tolkien Orcs did not have any resemblance to blacks. It would be a huge stretch to make the comparison, because Orcs were obviously more advanced than blacks, using metal armor and European / Middle Eastern style weapons. Which made them more worthy as opponents for civilized adventurers. Savages who don't wear armor tended to have low defensive stats.

However, the Warcraft games and especially World of Warcraft, did kind of turn orcs into a stand in for Bantus, by making them more primitive and savage, fighting in their underwear and living in huts in the middle of a savanna, ironically this was part of an attempt to make orcs less evil and turn them into noble savages.

:decline: of Orcs.

There was the village of nigerians that had iron weapons. But conviently that's the same area the Phoenicians were known to sell overpriced pottery and other items for gold.
 

Sykar

Arcane
Joined
Dec 2, 2014
Messages
11,297
Location
Turn right after Alpha Centauri
Tolkien's orcs sort of were. Warcraft's orcs certainly are. Not sure about Dungeons and Dragons, though; the lore's kind of generic.
Unless the creators for those particular settings have outright stated that they're derivative, nah. Just because triggered snowflakes make the connection between orcs and certain real life racial stereotypes doesn't make one derivative of the other.

In Tolkien's case, he did make direct allusions.

This was from an interview he did in 1964:

Tolkien: The dwarves of course are quite obviously-

D. Gueroult [interrupting]: wouldn't you say that in many ways they remind you of the Jews?

Tolkien: Their words are Semitic obviously, constructed to be Semitic. Hobbits are just rustic English people, made small in size because it reflects (in general) the small reach of their imagination - not the small reach of their courage or latent power.

I don't think Blizzard ever came out and said, "yeah, trolls are kind of like Jamaicans crossed with Aztecs, tauren are basically Plains Indians, and orcs are generic Mongols/Turks." But that's only because they don't want to be canceled. Though, as it turns out, it didn't save them any way.

They deserve to crash and burn considering what a dumpster fire they are. Good riddance to this piece of shit company though of course others like EA Activision or UBIsoft deserve the same or worse. I only feel bad for the workers who got exploited and treated like garbage while the likes of Bobby "Shitbag" Kodick raked in hundreds of millions with such "brilliant" moves as to fire 100s of workers.

Listening to the interview now, let us see if you are right:
 

LabRat

Learned
Joined
Jan 23, 2020
Messages
135
Location
Taiwan
I find that in modern mainstream media or books they always give the villain too much forgiveness and redemption, especially if they are women. How to ruin a villain? Try to make the them sympathetic and likable for no reason, or give them some cheap tragedy flashbacks.

Not just them. I also tired of to see the heroes always suffer from too many stupid moral dilemmas.
 

KeighnMcDeath

RPG Codex Boomer
Joined
Nov 23, 2016
Messages
12,867
I just saw google giving Vegeta the pink and purple treatment. So he wants to be uber gay like frieza eh? Bye Bulma... Vegeta has his sights set on something else. I barely even saw a DB-Super but the direction looks ... gay.
 
Joined
Jan 14, 2018
Messages
50,754
Codex Year of the Donut
RPGs are using species, basically dogs and goats. Are dogs inherently criminal because when wild dogs and one goat would be in the same place, the goat ends as a snack?
I don't know what drugs are you hooked up on, but comparing SENTIENT and NON-SENTIENT creatures is a creative way to look at that quetion
The word you're looking for is sapient. Dogs and goats are sentient.
Sophont if you're writing sci-fi, because it sounds cooler.
 

S.torch

Arbiter
Joined
Jan 4, 2019
Messages
937
It doesn't matter anyway. This is just another amount of crap in the burning pile.
Many other fantasy races that are not mentioned here have been misrepresented many times. If people are screaming now is only because it reached a point of stupidity that not even the most dumb can tolerate. But before this it was very clearly the path this trash was going.

But people wanted (and some here still want) to keep hitting the cope machine.
 

Yosharian

Arcane
Joined
May 28, 2018
Messages
9,428
Location
Grand Chien
It's a real shame that the books I already bought can't be retconned out of existence, and that wotc can't stop me from running my own game the way I want to run it

Also it doesn't look like the Forgotten Realms wiki is changing anytime soon? Although maybe it's too early to tell. That's where I get a lot of my lore info from (although I only take the stuff I like) for my campaigns

It is disappointing that it might affect future crpgs though, but as long as it's not too in-your-face then I think most crpgs have bigger issues
 

deuxhero

Arcane
Joined
Jul 30, 2007
Messages
11,326
Location
Flowery Land
Except by Eberron, everything that Woketards did in story/lore is trash.

I actually like Points of Light as the example setting it was intended as and giving prospective DMs the questions a setting needs to answer and possible solutions. Besides the basic geography and settlement questions, it answers less obvious but still critically important questions like "Where are all the ruins from and why has nobody looted them?" (PoL is set relatively soon after the collapse of its unifying empire. Most of these locations were in use within the century.) and "Why doesn't the king's army handle this?" (The king doesn't have the resources to do it directly, as settlements in the settings have limited spheres of influence and don't really have power beyond their walls and surrounding farms: The king doesn't have a standing army capable of going and killing the marauders.). Its lack of detail or scope is by design, and it has an easily explained thesis ("city states eking out an existence following the collapse of central government which has left the space between them as lawless wilderness") while its example nature frees it of any need to be particularly original.

Everything else post 3.5 is definitely trash though.
 

Harthwain

Magister
Joined
Dec 13, 2019
Messages
4,689
Back before the LOTR movies and Warcraft games, Tolkien Orcs did not have any resemblance to blacks.
Neither they did after the LOTR and Warcraft games. Because I never thought of black people playing DnD, watching/reading the LOTR or playing any Warcraft game. If someone wants to see something, he will see it in anything. It's simply the mark of the times we live in now, nothing more.

I find that in modern mainstream media or books they always give the villain too much forgiveness and redemption, especially if they are women. How to ruin a villain? Try to make the them sympathetic and likable for no reason, or give them some cheap tragedy flashbacks.

Not just them. I also tired of to see the heroes always suffer from too many stupid moral dilemmas.
In my opinion for evil to be interesting it has to be intelligent or alluring. You can make villain "just evil" and it can work (Lord of the Rings, for example), but this is very specific use of a villain.
 
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LabRat

Learned
Joined
Jan 23, 2020
Messages
135
Location
Taiwan
SJW doesn't seem focus decent adventure or battles. They like slice of life or some hollow political agenda. There are many mainstream american capeshit comics have become Teen drama or West Wing.
 

Cryomancer

Arcane
Glory to Ukraine
Joined
Jul 11, 2019
Messages
14,474
Location
Frostfell
In 80s/90s = Satanic Panic
In 2010/2020 = SJW Panic.
In future which group will ruin our games?

Pick this Hexen image.In 90s some fanatical Christians would say that is satanist, will encourage people to do black magic irl, and everything else that we know. Nowadays, they will see the white hand of the mage problematic and the fact that people executed being "of color" also problematic. And note, I'm not saying that Hexen is a RPG. It is merely a fantasy shooter and I love it.

O4fdfuO.jpeg


BTW, look to the decline on D&D with races :

  • TSR times : NO, your half orc can't be a mage. And they are dumber than normal humans, so -2 INT. Other races like Dwarf can't even learn magic and hence are hated in magical supremacist countries like Netherese and Glantri. Even mage specializations have race restrictions. Gnomes can only be illuionists and transmuters
  • 3.XE times : Sure, you can make a half orc wizard but he would't be as good as a human or elf wizard
  • Modern times : You can make a Orc wizard with 20 INT.
Honestly, I wish that more CRPG's will take inspiration in OSR games and less in Woketards butchering of D&D.

fantasy is a completely natural place for applying communism because it's the only place it works

I think that a Realm of Dread/Ravenloft campaign where the Dark Lord is a communist leader can be a interesting campaign. Obviously Barovia would look like a paradise compared to that.
 
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S.torch

Arbiter
Joined
Jan 4, 2019
Messages
937
We already had that discussion. The portrayal of evil in Tolkien's work is perfect.
 

KateMicucci

Arcane
Joined
Sep 2, 2017
Messages
1,676
There's no point of having different races at all if each one is just like every other race except for the coat of paint.
 

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