The Secret World

[rusty_shackleford]

What a trip.

 

[infidel]

Again, I have trouble believing the game wasn't making a profit due to the devoted fanbase it had(and still has.)

That depends on your definition of profit. If it's profit after recouping development costs, then TSW and a lot of MMOs are not profitable. But if we sweep that under the investor/publisher rug (there's probably billions of dollar losses there, but who counts), then they're profitable on a month-to-month basis since the devops team is tiny and the running costs are miniscule.

So, no they aren't "PURE EVIL", but they don't care in the least about their customers therefore they don't deserve your support and especially not your money.

I'm curious, does Troika deserve your money (assuming we're talking about when they were still alive)? :D Their products are unpolished garbage by your standards whether it's Arcanum, VTMB or ToEE. In fact, IIRC, VTMB's buggy release was made exactly to appease Activision who didn't want to spend another year wasting money on these incompetent dunces.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Shits taking too long to kill in hong kong

 

[bylam]

The story of TSW is pretty clearly laid out in the publicly available financial reports of the company. I don't think there is any real reason to speculate or think the company lied about it. I was Lead Content Designer until launch in 2012 - then Game Director until 2015 ish - basically up until we delivered the last parts of Tokyo in the original game.

Good content is expensive to create. At the end of the day, the cost per mission in TSW was probably 10x that of other MMOs. Sure, we had our item missions which were filler, but even those were fairly focused. The coherency of world building and narrative with the fully acted cutscenes for every mission etc. It just cost a lot to make new content. Post-launch we were making the issues with fewer and fewer people each time. The player base consumed all the content of an issue in days, then wanted more. We couldn't deliver it fast enough. Between every release, players left the game. Some of them didn't come back. It wasn't their fault, but this was the development cost of the content.

I wasn't involved in the development of SWL but I can tell you that it was a sincere attempt to revitalize a game that we all felt was a great game that missed its audience. Remember that the original TSW launched in 2012 with an outdated business model (the old CEO refused to budge) against a Star Wars MMO, Diablo 3, Guild Wars 2 (which had a much smarter business model) and a WoW expansion. There was a feeling internally that maybe with a more polished and better launch it would have its day in the sun. I think that is where the original plan around SWL started.

Man all this stuff makes me sad to think about. After Ragnar left, I took the notes he had left me and wrote an outline for finishing the entire story - where TSW began and where it "ended". I still have it. I would love to finish it someday.

 

[gurugeorge]

The story of TSW is pretty clearly laid out in the publicly available financial reports of the company. I don't think there is any real reason to speculate or think the company lied about it. I was Lead Content Designer until launch in 2012 - then Game Director until 2015 ish - basically up until we delivered the last parts of Tokyo in the original game.

Good content is expensive to create. At the end of the day, the cost per mission in TSW was probably 10x that of other MMOs. Sure, we had our item missions which were filler, but even those were fairly focused. The coherency of world building and narrative with the fully acted cutscenes for every mission etc. It just cost a lot to make new content. Post-launch we were making the issues with fewer and fewer people each time. The player base consumed all the content of an issue in days, then wanted more. We couldn't deliver it fast enough. Between every release, players left the game. Some of them didn't come back. It wasn't their fault, but this was the development cost of the content.

I wasn't involved in the development of SWL but I can tell you that it was a sincere attempt to revitalize a game that we all felt was a great game that missed its audience. Remember that the original TSW launched in 2012 with an outdated business model (the old CEO refused to budge) against a Star Wars MMO, Diablo 3, Guild Wars 2 (which had a much smarter business model) and a WoW expansion. There was a feeling internally that maybe with a more polished and better launch it would have its day in the sun. I think that is where the original plan around SWL started.

Man all this stuff makes me sad to think about. After Ragnar left, I took the notes he had left me and wrote an outline for finishing the entire story - where TSW began and where it "ended". I still have it. I would love to finish it someday.

I think probably most people who played and enjoyed TSW are sad about how it fizzled out. For a while (at least when it was fresh, captivating and immersive), it was very nearly my favourite game of all time. I think all the stars were pretty much aligned for it, what let it down for me (and I think many others) was something about the combat never feeling quite in the pocket, and since that was something you were doing all the time, well ...

 

[Cromwell]

I still dont understand why a subscription is seen as outdated but people happily by tons of small dlc which in the end comes out as the same. I think I even payed for TSW for a lot of time without even logging in in between the issues.

 

[Deflowerer]

I think it would do well if the game was remade by repurposing it into a single player game that also is very conducive to 2-4 people co-op. Improve graphics (I don't give a fuck but larger market would), revamp combat system and add a little bit more reactivity to the world reflecting your progress.

 

[Delterius]

things that make me want to cry

was the game actually made with just 35 people overall?

 

[gurugeorge]

I still dont understand why a subscription is seen as outdated but people happily by tons of small dlc which in the end comes out as the same. I think I even payed for TSW for a lot of time without even logging in in between the issues.

Definitely agree. While it was a nice idea to have it as an MMO, ultimately the gameplay is more for soloists or small teams of friends. Recent Larian games with 2 or 4 player show that a nice tight little setup can be quite conducive to fun gameplay. Even more so with a game that has TSW's storylines - it would be a really cool adventure and virtual world for a few people to get stoned and spend hours in, talking about what they're experiencing, figuring out how to do the puzzles together, etc.

I think Funcom wasted a lot of resources on making it an MMO when they could have made it an absolutely stellar single-player game, and been ahead of Larian in discovering that people like small-scale co-op RPGs.

But of course they could still do it (hint hint). As you say - revamp and update the visuals, keep the quests and puzzles more or less as is. Build system is fine, but most importantly the bread and butter combat needs to be slick and smooth and intuitive, which it never was.

They should take a look at Warframe for what people have come to expect in terms of super-slick third person gameplay that uses both 2 weapons and 4 superpowers - roughly similar to what we had in TSW.

 

[Delterius]

I still dont understand why a subscription is seen as outdated but people happily by tons of small dlc which in the end comes out as the same. I think I even payed for TSW for a lot of time without even logging in in between the issues.

Definitely agree. While it was a nice idea to have it as an MMO, ultimately the gameplay is more for soloists or small teams of friends.

I think you're both missing the point. The problem is one of marketing. Can you get someone to pay a subscription to play World of Warcraft, Final Fantasy XIV or TESO? Probably. But the mounting pressure from free to play gacha games in the mobile to PC ecosystem makes audiences question wether something with lower production values makes the cut for 'subscription worthy premium MMO'. And one can make the case that the market for that audience is always going to be dominated by a handful of competitors.

It's not wether you charge your customers, it's how you charge them.

 

[Zombra]

I would love to finish it someday.

It's time again to state the obvious: this should have been a single-player game from the beginning ... and the story and investigation content could still be rereleased in a single-player (or small scale coop) format.

I get the SWL repackage, but making TSW a "better MMO" was never the ideal end point. You look at open world single player games nowadays and it's easy to see a better direction TSW could have gone (and could still go?).

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Man all this stuff makes me sad to think about. After Ragnar left, I took the notes he had left me and wrote an outline for finishing the entire story - where TSW began and where it "ended". I still have it. I would love to finish it someday.

I'm curious, are you aware of any of the post-HK content that was created?

 

[Lhynn]

I wasn't involved in the development of SWL but I can tell you that it was a sincere attempt to revitalize a game that we all felt was a great game that missed its audience. Remember that the original TSW launched in 2012 with an outdated business model (the old CEO refused to budge) against a Star Wars MMO, Diablo 3, Guild Wars 2 (which had a much smarter business model) and a WoW expansion. There was a feeling internally that maybe with a more polished and better launch it would have its day in the sun. I think that is where the original plan around SWL started.

The whole upgrade system screamed cash grab. It was entirely too simple and grindy and all content was there to further it. A lot of people saw it for what it was on release, others held hope until they realized the horrible grind to max out a weapon. Even if i defended it at first, i had to concede eventually that it was bullshit.

I dont know who was in charge of the re-release, but they missed the mark.

 

[Zombra]

Meh. The maxed weapon thing is obviously a treadmill to give folks a 2000 hour project if that's what they want, but to claim that "all content" hangs on it is goofy as hell. I never felt any sense that a maxed weapon is needed for anything except bragging rights.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Meh. The maxed weapon thing is obviously a treadmill to give folks a 2000 hour project if that's what they want, but to claim that "all content" hangs on it is goofy as hell. I never felt any sense that a maxed weapon is needed for anything except bragging rights.

I'm frequently having to upgrade my gear using the loot treadmill thing because I simply don't do anywhere near enough damage and I'm just doing story quests in HK.
And it's obviously designed to flood your inventory so you run out of space and pay irl money for more inventory/bank room.

Honestly really dislike the gear system, it's uninspired and boring. I'm still using the same rifle I found shortly after I started but upgraded because I haven't found anything better.
I guess dungeons have unique loot, but nobody does them, soo...

My ultimate grenade ability used to decimate mobs, now it barely does half the HP of pack enemies and maybe 1/5th to single large-HP enemies. Everything just feels ultra bullet spongy.

 

[Bigg Boss]

Yeah the loot/weapon situation is not ideal or worth defending. I spent more time in the menu breaking down stuff than playing sometimes.

 

[Kem0sabe]

The story of TSW is pretty clearly laid out in the publicly available financial reports of the company. I don't think there is any real reason to speculate or think the company lied about it. I was Lead Content Designer until launch in 2012 - then Game Director until 2015 ish - basically up until we delivered the last parts of Tokyo in the original game.

Good content is expensive to create. At the end of the day, the cost per mission in TSW was probably 10x that of other MMOs. Sure, we had our item missions which were filler, but even those were fairly focused. The coherency of world building and narrative with the fully acted cutscenes for every mission etc. It just cost a lot to make new content. Post-launch we were making the issues with fewer and fewer people each time. The player base consumed all the content of an issue in days, then wanted more. We couldn't deliver it fast enough. Between every release, players left the game. Some of them didn't come back. It wasn't their fault, but this was the development cost of the content.

I wasn't involved in the development of SWL but I can tell you that it was a sincere attempt to revitalize a game that we all felt was a great game that missed its audience. Remember that the original TSW launched in 2012 with an outdated business model (the old CEO refused to budge) against a Star Wars MMO, Diablo 3, Guild Wars 2 (which had a much smarter business model) and a WoW expansion. There was a feeling internally that maybe with a more polished and better launch it would have its day in the sun. I think that is where the original plan around SWL started.

Man all this stuff makes me sad to think about. After Ragnar left, I took the notes he had left me and wrote an outline for finishing the entire story - where TSW began and where it "ended". I still have it. I would love to finish it someday.

Thats all very nice and emotional, but it still doesn't excuse funcom treating their players like shit by lying with the release of Legends, cutting already released content, launching it later to keep the player base fed with old content as lazy and cheap to release "updates".

This type of narrative MMORPG is impossible to maintain, the only other example is the old republic, made by a massively bigger and richer developer and they still couldn't maintain the initial quality and with each update had to cut down the production of the stories. These days it's yet another free mmo running off nostalgia and whales.

Funcom was greedy, they tried to get into the f2p bandwagon while pissing off the player base that kept the old game alive. It was never going to end well.

Being bought and then ass fucked by a Chinese conglomerate was payback enough I guess.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

This type of narrative MMORPG is impossible to maintain, the only other example is the old republic, made by a massively bigger and richer developer and they still couldn't maintain the initial quality and with each update had to cut down the production of the stories. These days it's yet another free mmo running off nostalgia and whales.

SWTOR was having its dev team poached for Anthem development for a long time. They did pretty well up until that point.

 

[Stokowski]

If you believe anything bylam posts, then message me for this great deal I have on a bridge I'm selling.

 

[Bigg Boss]

If you believe anything bylam posts, then message me for this great deal I have on a bridge I'm selling.

Is the bridge in Africa?

 

[hello friend]

The story of TSW is pretty clearly laid out in the publicly available financial reports of the company. I don't think there is any real reason to speculate or think the company lied about it. I was Lead Content Designer until launch in 2012 - then Game Director until 2015 ish - basically up until we delivered the last parts of Tokyo in the original game.

Good content is expensive to create. At the end of the day, the cost per mission in TSW was probably 10x that of other MMOs. Sure, we had our item missions which were filler, but even those were fairly focused. The coherency of world building and narrative with the fully acted cutscenes for every mission etc. It just cost a lot to make new content. Post-launch we were making the issues with fewer and fewer people each time. The player base consumed all the content of an issue in days, then wanted more. We couldn't deliver it fast enough. Between every release, players left the game. Some of them didn't come back. It wasn't their fault, but this was the development cost of the content.

I wasn't involved in the development of SWL but I can tell you that it was a sincere attempt to revitalize a game that we all felt was a great game that missed its audience. Remember that the original TSW launched in 2012 with an outdated business model (the old CEO refused to budge) against a Star Wars MMO, Diablo 3, Guild Wars 2 (which had a much smarter business model) and a WoW expansion. There was a feeling internally that maybe with a more polished and better launch it would have its day in the sun. I think that is where the original plan around SWL started.

Man all this stuff makes me sad to think about. After Ragnar left, I took the notes he had left me and wrote an outline for finishing the entire story - where TSW began and where it "ended". I still have it. I would love to finish it someday.

bro if Secret World servers ever shut down you better release those notes

 

[Delterius]

downloaded the game. can't log in because it crashes btw. i think its dead or dying.

 

[bozia2012]

I still dont understand why a subscription is seen as outdated but people happily by tons of small dlc which in the end comes out as the same. I think I even payed for TSW for a lot of time without even logging in in between the issues.

Everyday you see how dumb people are and still you can't wrap your mind around it. I still can't accept it, even though I agonized over forking up yearly/lifetime subs for AoC/TSW, yet I easily spent way more in a month on hentai mobile games. It's like science or something.

Also people are dumb, they don't engage in the worldbuilding of AoC or TSW, to them it's just the same stuff as WoW or some korean crap.

Also people are dumb, they see crappy combat or some technical issue and the don't see the pearl they've been just given. They don't want to stop, read and inhale. They want to run around on a horse killing things or go fishing.

Good games are like B, C even D movies - you got to accept some crap or you'll never get anything original or fun.

Also nothing should be ever offered as pure live service - every game you pay should be available offline even just to explore. The next point would be the ability to experience all of the content, even in limited capability (story mode raids when you can't connect with other people anymore etc.).

 

[Sykar]

I still dont understand why a subscription is seen as outdated but people happily by tons of small dlc which in the end comes out as the same. I think I even payed for TSW for a lot of time without even logging in in between the issues.

Everyday you see how dumb people are and still you can't wrap your mind around it. I still can't accept it, even though I agonized over forking up yearly/lifetime subs for AoC/TSW, yet I easily spent way more in a month on hentai mobile games. It's like science or something.

Also people are dumb, they don't engage in the worldbuilding of AoC or TSW, to them it's just the same stuff as WoW or some korean crap.

Also people are dumb, they see crappy combat or some technical issue and the don't see the pearl they've been just given. They don't want to stop, read and inhale. They want to run around on a horse killing things or go fishing.

Good games are like B, C even D movies - you got to accept some crap or you'll never get anything original or fun.

Also nothing should be ever offered as pure live service - every game you pay should be available offline even just to explore. The next point would be the ability to experience all of the content, even in limited capability (story mode raids when you can't connect with other people anymore etc.).

Strictly speaking you have more control with F2P models, though it hugely depends on the specific game. A lot of them are so siffocatingly restrictive that you end up paying more in the end indeed unless you go super long term which most won't I think. Funny enough the most succesful MMOs still use subscription like WoW and FF 14.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

MMOs that use subscriptions still monetize like F2P games, they just doubledip now