Eternity Pillars of Eternity + The White March Expansion Thread

[Orud]

The combat is interesting because buffing all the time is gay and boring. I'm not sure how great it is in the end but it is something. I am glad it exists. Then again I am not a Dungeons and Dragons fanboy.

Sure, but at the same time we lost the ability to use invisibility outside of combat. Want to cast an invisibility spell to steal some shit right in front of someone or get into a better position? Not possible.

Same with kiting or laying more than 1 trap. It might be lame, but people should be able to tackle a fight the way they want (or add mechanics that do not allow reloading while moving for example). In PoE however, it's not possible since enemies will reset to their original position if you kite them far enough.

 

[Bigg Boss]

The combat is interesting because buffing all the time is gay and boring. I'm not sure how great it is in the end but it is something. I am glad it exists. Then again I am not a Dungeons and Dragons fanboy.

Sure, but at the same time we lost the ability to use invisibility outside of combat. Want to cast an invisibility spell to steal some shit right in front of someone or get into a better position? Not possible.

Same with kiting or laying more than 1 trap. It might be lame, but people should be able to tackle a fight the way they want (or add mechanics that do not allow reloading while moving for example). In PoE however, it's not possible since enemies will reset to their original position if you kite them far enough.

Agreed.

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

The combat is interesting because buffing all the time is gay and boring. I'm not sure how great it is in the end but it is something. I am glad it exists. Then again I am not a Dungeons and Dragons fanboy.

Sure, but at the same time we lost the ability to use invisibility outside of combat. Want to cast an invisibility spell to steal some shit right in front of someone or get into a better position? Not possible.

Same with kiting or laying more than 1 trap. It might be lame, but people should be able to tackle a fight the way they want (or add mechanics that do not allow reloading while moving for example). In PoE however, it's not possible since enemies will reset to their original position if you kite them far enough.

I found it really annoying that I couldn't apply cleric buffs out of combat. It made some encounters a lot harder than they needed to be as if you got hit by an earlier dominate before you can cast that spell that prevents it you're pretty much screwed.
It felt like a really forced way to introduce difficulty.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Sure, but at the same time we lost the ability to use invisibility outside of combat. Want to cast an invisibility spell to steal some shit right in front of someone or get into a better position? Not possible.

It's because magic is the most underbaked part of the entire generic forgotten realms knockoff setting which is really impressive.

 

[Nano]

Favorite part of the Od Nua dungeon was the text event where you bathed in a tub of blood and bones and it was all described in lavish detail. Got me hard tbh.

Then I proceeded to get anal raped by the Drake living there. That part kinda put a damper on it.

 

[AwesomeButton]

Endless Paths is one of the worst and most superfluous dungeons in RPG history. Inexcusable and a clear example of Kickstarter incentives directly wasting resources on nonsense

Well, what did I say about insufficient resources?

 

[Haplo]

I was in partial agreement at least but then....

I found Wasteland 2's or Shadowrun's combat system to be more interesting for that reason, as whilst you do have spells in Shadowrun, they are not as powerful as in Pillars and you still have to use conventional tactics.

Ok, that's a REALLY low bar. I found the combat in Pillars WAY better then those 2. Particularly way above WL2, which is extremely bare-bones. Other then the different gun types, what tactical options do you have? To crouch (if you find a free spot on the map), to burst or take an aimed shot that will not matter at all?

 

[Haplo]

Same as with Fort Deadlight in Deadfire, they frontload the best dungeon right at the start while everything else is shitty until the DLCs.

Fort Deadlight is great indeed, but I would not say other areas are shitty. I mean sure, thee are plenty of tiny, focused areas, almost like most Kingmaker exploration locations. But plenty of solid ones too.

 

[Parabalus]

Endless paths is great if you do them in one-go.

I was in partial agreement at least but then....

I found Wasteland 2's or Shadowrun's combat system to be more interesting for that reason, as whilst you do have spells in Shadowrun, they are not as powerful as in Pillars and you still have to use conventional tactics.

Ok, that's a REALLY low bar. I found the combat in Pillars WAY better then those 2. Particularly way above WL2, which is extremely bare-bones. Other then the different gun types, what tactical options do you have? To crouch (if you find a free spot on the map), to burst or take an aimed shot that will not matter at all?

WL2 combat is complete trash. Shadowrun is decent in the beginning, but it has UI and animation problems that keep it from being great. Late-game it degenerates a lot.

 

[Grunker]

^ agree about WL2, the fake news is for scandalous endless paths comment. don't defend that absolute trash

World, story, role playing options. It's a big and detailed world they made, full of neat questlines that do have consequences, and I found it interesting.

You are one of the only five (5) people in the world to hold this opinion. But hey, you do you, I like a rebel.

him, sawyer and who else

 

[Grunker]

Endless Paths is one of the worst and most superfluous dungeons in RPG history. Inexcusable and a clear example of Kickstarter incentives directly wasting resources on nonsense

Well, what did I say about insufficient resources?

Huh? I think you might have misread my whole argument in that discussion

Again, what I'm saying boils down to: no, PoE does not have less content than BG1 - it just squanders a lot of them on useless nonsense and poor structure.

 

[Lacrymas]

him, sawyer and who else

The people who play on story mode. At first I was like "he's the one", but then I remembered story mode exists and was requested.

 

[Grunker]

him, sawyer and who else

The people who play on story mode.

There are more than 3 gaming journalists tho

 

[Lacrymas]

But story mode came way after the journos were done with the game.

 

[Lyric Suite]

Almost done with the hold.

So this is the best dungeon in the game, huh?

It's not bad, but it ain't no Durlag's Tower, that's for sure. Not even remotely close. I also think i should have grabbed Kana before coming here as it's taking me too long to clear it. Every fight is the same but takes a long time and i have to rest every two or three fights as i need all my spells to mow those bastards down, but mostly it's because once i deplete that spell Aloth has that scatters all the mobs around with charm i'm basically fucked as the AI swarms by back line every single time and there's nothing else i can do to stop them.

You should rest at most once or twice for the entire hold. Are you running back to an inn for supplies?

It'll ruin the game, don't spam rest.

I always try to rest as little as possible, but once Eder is in the red and i got no spells left i don't have much of a choice.

And no, i'm not going back to the inn. The priest in the second floor lets me rest.

 

[AwesomeButton]

Huh? I think you might have misread my whole argument in that discussion

Again, what I'm saying boils down to: no, PoE does not have less content than BG1 - it just squanders a lot of them on useless nonsense and poor structure.

Well you did say a lot of other things. Specifically that you disagree with me on PoE's lacking the people-and-money resources to bring about the same experience as BG/BG2. Disagreeing with that is different than the limited statement "PoE does not have less content than BG1", although I would contest that too, but it's a different subject.

EDIT: Even developers in their retrospectives have outright stated they've underestimated parts of the game - namely the stronghold.

And I'll repeat again - when you set out to check off kickstarter promises, you inevitably end up with something differing from your vision for the game.

 

[Parabalus]

^ agree about WL2, the fake news is for scandalous endless paths comment. don't defend that absolute trash

World, story, role playing options. It's a big and detailed world they made, full of neat questlines that do have consequences, and I found it interesting.

You are one of the only five (5) people in the world to hold this opinion. But hey, you do you, I like a rebel.

him, sawyer and who else

It's a huge, non-linear dungeon with several secrets and quests. What's so horrible about it?

It even has deep ties to the lore and the stronghold mechanics.

Durlag's comparison aside, I didn't find it to be much below the rest of PoE.

Almost done with the hold.

So this is the best dungeon in the game, huh?

It's not bad, but it ain't no Durlag's Tower, that's for sure. Not even remotely close. I also think i should have grabbed Kana before coming here as it's taking me too long to clear it. Every fight is the same but takes a long time and i have to rest every two or three fights as i need all my spells to mow those bastards down, but mostly it's because once i deplete that spell Aloth has that scatters all the mobs around with charm i'm basically fucked as the AI swarms by back line every single time and there's nothing else i can do to stop them.

You should rest at most once or twice for the entire hold. Are you running back to an inn for supplies?

It'll ruin the game, don't spam rest.

I always try to rest as little as possible, but once Eder is in the red and i got no spells left i don't have much of a choice.

And no, i'm not going back to the inn. The priest in the second floor lets me rest.

Ah, great catch with the priest, forgot about him.

I found that a good way to pace yourself is to use only looted camping supplies, and never buy them. Sawyer spread them around quite well, so when you pick one up it's a good rest signal.

 

[Lyric Suite]

Yeah, i'm doing the same with the camping supplies.

I think i'm just struggling a bit because i don't have a full party yet and i'm also lucking some dps. I suppose i could have taken some mercenaries but ho well.

 

[Grunker]

Huh? I think you might have misread my whole argument in that discussion

Again, what I'm saying boils down to: no, PoE does not have less content than BG1 - it just squanders a lot of them on useless nonsense and poor structure.

Well you did say a lot of other things. Specifically that you disagree with me on PoE's lacking the people-and-money resources to bring about the same experience as BG/BG2.

Maybe it's just me who's slow, but I really don't get where we disagree. Obviously they had the people-and-money resources to bring the same experience - they squandered it on useless stuff like Endless Paths!

 

[Grunker]

^ agree about WL2, the fake news is for scandalous endless paths comment. don't defend that absolute trash

World, story, role playing options. It's a big and detailed world they made, full of neat questlines that do have consequences, and I found it interesting.

You are one of the only five (5) people in the world to hold this opinion. But hey, you do you, I like a rebel.

him, sawyer and who else

It's a huge, non-linear dungeon with several secrets and quests. What's so horrible about it?

It's a samey copypasta-machine full of almost entirely uninteresting encounters and with no unique theme. Compare it to Durlag's or Watcher's and it is obvious how terrible it is - but even in isolation I don't imagine how anyone could derive much enjoyment from what is essentially just monster-dumps of poorly thought-out encounters and a minimum of lip service paid to a marginal amount of non-combat stuff.

 

[Ninjerk]

There is something oddly satisfying about using an invisibility spell to scout out future encounters more-or-less free of danger and especially satisfying in the superiority of invisibility+trap disarming over stealth (which breaks)+trap disarming. The player feels clever for having recognized and taken adavntage of the difference. (apologies if I'm not clear, I'm quite drunk atm).

 

[Orud]

It's a huge, non-linear dungeon with several secrets and quests. What's so horrible about it?

The problem is that you need to break up your progression through it ad-hoc. It was specifically designed that way; you're supposed to delve deeper into it until you hit a brick wall difficulty wise, and then later return when you've grown in strength.

The problem I have with that is that there is no clear guideline on when to return and it interrupts the flow of the rest of the game later on (because it's there is no reason, related to the rest of the game, to ever head back). In addition, if you hold off until you're strong enough to do it in one go, you'll basically overpower most of the dungeon to the point where there is no challenge at all.

I wouldn't have minded it so much if it was a self-contained package that you could undertake in one go once you're strong enough to start it. In addition its progression structure (both in player power and enemy encounter difficulty) should be self sufficient, allowing you to progress through it by simply playing the dungeon.

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

I was in partial agreement at least but then....

I found Wasteland 2's or Shadowrun's combat system to be more interesting for that reason, as whilst you do have spells in Shadowrun, they are not as powerful as in Pillars and you still have to use conventional tactics.

Ok, that's a REALLY low bar. I found the combat in Pillars WAY better then those 2. Particularly way above WL2, which is extremely bare-bones. Other then the different gun types, what tactical options do you have? To crouch (if you find a free spot on the map), to burst or take an aimed shot that will not matter at all?

True, WL2's combat isn't great, but you still have to make use of cover and flanking which is a little more interesting than just spamming spells.
In Pillars I found that most fights just devolved to "use tank and summons to hold them in place in a choke point, paralyze paralyze nuke nuke"
Mechanically you do have some nice abilities and I did like some ideas, such as the engagement mechanic and expendable summons to even the odds and flank numerically superior foes, but in terms of tactics I found it to be rather limiting in most encounters.

That said, the Thaos boss fight was fairly tactical as you did have to pay attention to position and couldn't just trap him in a choke point and chain stun him. The constant full self-heals was a little much though.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

There is something oddly satisfying about using an invisibility spell to scout out future encounters more-or-less free of danger and especially satisfying in the superiority of invisibility+trap disarming over stealth (which breaks)+trap disarming. The player feels clever for having recognized and taken adavntage of the difference. (apologies if I'm not clear, I'm quite drunk atm).

Making the player feel clever because they discovered something vs being handed it is something that is completely lost in modern cRPGs.
Compare how skills are used in Fallout to Fallout clones. In Fallout, you use the skill on objects in the world. In the clones, you just "talk" to the object(only the ones you can use a skill on are able to be "talked" to) and either automatically use the correct skill or select a dialogue option to do so.
Narrowing magic and reducing the ways it can be used to interact with the world is just a natural extension of this, makes the game easier for developers/designers but shit for players.

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

It's a huge, non-linear dungeon with several secrets and quests. What's so horrible about it?

The problem is that you need to break up your progression through it ad-hoc. It was specifically designed that way; you're supposed to delve deeper into it until you hit a brick wall difficulty wise, and then later return when you've grown in strength.

The problem I have with that is that there is no clear guideline on when to return and it interrupts the flow of the rest of the game later on (because it's there is no reason, related to the rest of the game, to ever head back). In addition, if you hold off until you're strong enough to do it in one go, you'll basically overpower most of the dungeon to the point where there is no challenge at all.

I wouldn't have minded it so much if it was a self-contained package that you could undertake in one go once you're strong enough to start it. In addition its progression structure (both in player power and enemy encounter difficulty) should be self sufficient, allowing you to progress through it by simply playing the dungeon.

There's even a point where you can't actually go back safely; on floor 12 its really easy to find yourself in an impossible situation, as there's 2 paths. One path has a really hard death ring trap. The other path has brambles you can't back track out of, and if you want to backtrack to resupply you have to fight a fairly difficult encounter and go through the trap. It isn't great.