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Gothic What is the most overrated cRPG on the codex?

Serus

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RPGs are kinda shit
The sad part is that it is true to a point. At least from my point of view. There are some very good crpgs but not even close as many as there are strategy/tactical/wargames or even adventure games, when i played those. I can think of games from those genres that are close to perfect but i have hard time to call any crpg like that. Perhaps it is the nature of the genre that was created based on multiplayer tabletop games but isn't that at all. Many tries to be very hard though, with zero chance for real success. The end results can never be satisfactory.
maybe you just don't like rpgs
Maybe. Maybe you just aren't too smart. Everything is possible.
[returns to play Underrail]
well I can list dozens of rpgs I consider to be good but I can't list a single adventure game I consider to be good
Sure. And neither can I list a single flight simulator or sport game I consider to be great*. Perhaps because i never liked those genres very much to begin with? If you can't name even one good game in a genre, then it is a good bet that you don't like the genre itself.
I can name good crpgs, crpgs i had fun playing. But only very few great ones and none that came close to perfect. However I CAN do that for strategy or adventure games. And I never even liked adventures as much as crpgs. The question is "why?". Why can't crpgs feel as good, as finished as games in other genres?
The fact that crpgs as a whole try to emulate another type of games made for different medium that they can never really do in satisfactory way. This is not a problem or less of a problem for many other genres. For example strategy or wargames. You are supposed to interact with other players too, those genres might have come to the computers from tabelotop as well. However the interactions they require can be simplified and very formulaic. "I put my unit there" "I raise a tax here"... etc. Nothing personal or outside the pre-designed possibilities is needed. Computer can handle those. Also the world itself is more simple and formulaic too. Only a few mechanisms are needed to be simulated, all in an abstract way. However In a crpg (that isn't a dungeon crawler) it isn't the case. And we come back to "unsatisfactory due to its nature".

*Gunship 2000 from early 1990 came close though.
 

Darth Canoli

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well I can list dozens of rpgs I consider to be good but I can't list a single adventure game I consider to be good

Either you didn't play any or go play RTS instead.
Take your pick: (In no particular order)
  • Quest for Glory (the number doesn't matter)
  • Quest for Infamy
  • Monkey Island
  • Zack McKracken
  • Maniac Mansion
  • Phantasmagoria (for the FMV gimmick and to add variety to the list)
  • Broken Sword
  • ...
Even leisure suit larry early games are good. There's a hundred at least good if not great adventure games.
 
Joined
Jan 14, 2018
Messages
50,754
Codex Year of the Donut
well I can list dozens of rpgs I consider to be good but I can't list a single adventure game I consider to be good

Either you didn't play any or go play RTS instead.
Take your pick: (In no particular order)
  • Quest for Glory (the number doesn't matter)
  • Quest for Infamy
  • Monkey Island
  • Zack McKracken
  • Maniac Mansion
  • Phantasmagoria (for the FMV gimmick and to add variety to the list)
  • Broken Sword
  • ...
Even leisure suit larry early games are good. There's a hundred at least good if not great adventure games.
no I just hate the genre, I don't have the patience for it. I didn't as a kid, and I don't now.
On the flip side, it seems like a lot of people on this site don't actually like RPGs but like strategy games with RPG elements.
 

Serus

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Small but great planet of Potatohole
well I can list dozens of rpgs I consider to be good but I can't list a single adventure game I consider to be good

Either you didn't play any or go play RTS instead.
Take your pick: (In no particular order)
  • Quest for Glory (the number doesn't matter)
  • Quest for Infamy
  • Monkey Island
  • Zack McKracken
  • Maniac Mansion
  • Phantasmagoria (for the FMV gimmick and to add variety to the list)
  • Broken Sword
  • ...
Even leisure suit larry early games are good. There's a hundred at least good if not great adventure games.
I'd add more Lucas Arts games, say Indiana Jones and the Fate of Atlantis. Also i would skip QfG3 and 5 (or at least wouldn't start by any of those two) but maybe that's onl1y me.
Otherwise, good list.
 

Serus

Arcane
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Joined
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Messages
6,681
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Small but great planet of Potatohole
well I can list dozens of rpgs I consider to be good but I can't list a single adventure game I consider to be good

Either you didn't play any or go play RTS instead.
Take your pick: (In no particular order)
  • Quest for Glory (the number doesn't matter)
  • Quest for Infamy
  • Monkey Island
  • Zack McKracken
  • Maniac Mansion
  • Phantasmagoria (for the FMV gimmick and to add variety to the list)
  • Broken Sword
  • ...
Even leisure suit larry early games are good. There's a hundred at least good if not great adventure games.
no I just hate the genre, I don't have the patience for it. I didn't as a kid, and I don't now.
On the flip side, it seems like a lot of people on this site don't actually like RPGs but like strategy games with RPG elements.
On the yet another side, many people on this site don't like Crpgs* but like visual novels or interactive fiction games. Some of them probably because they never bothered to read a single real novel in their life. What's your point again?

*Those are Crpg we discuss here, nort RPG. Many people seem to completely forgot also this part. I wonder how many people who NEVER ever played a tabeletop tries to play crpgs to see how it is to have friends to play tabletop with? People who basically would want crpgs to be some ersatz for them instead of an interesting COMPUTER GAME genre on its own?
 
Joined
Jan 14, 2018
Messages
50,754
Codex Year of the Donut
well I can list dozens of rpgs I consider to be good but I can't list a single adventure game I consider to be good

Either you didn't play any or go play RTS instead.
Take your pick: (In no particular order)
  • Quest for Glory (the number doesn't matter)
  • Quest for Infamy
  • Monkey Island
  • Zack McKracken
  • Maniac Mansion
  • Phantasmagoria (for the FMV gimmick and to add variety to the list)
  • Broken Sword
  • ...
Even leisure suit larry early games are good. There's a hundred at least good if not great adventure games.
no I just hate the genre, I don't have the patience for it. I didn't as a kid, and I don't now.
On the flip side, it seems like a lot of people on this site don't actually like RPGs but like strategy games with RPG elements.
On the yet another side, many people on this site don't like Crpgs* but like visual novels or interactive fiction games. Some of them probably because they never bothered to read a single real novel in their life. What's your point again?

*Those are Crpg we discuss here, nort RPG. Many people seem to completely forgot also this part. I wonder how many people who NEVER ever played a tabeletop tries to play crpgs to see how it is to have friends to play tabletop with? People who basically would want crpgs to be some ersatz for them instead of an interesting COMPUTER GAME genre on its own?
Yes, they're both wrong.
 

Black Angel

Arcane
Joined
Jun 23, 2016
Messages
2,910
Location
Wonderland
RPGs are kinda shit
The sad part is that it is true to a point. At least from my point of view. There are some very good crpgs but not even close as many as there are strategy/tactical/wargames or even adventure games, when i played those. I can think of games from those genres that are close to perfect but i have hard time to call any crpg like that. Perhaps it is the nature of the genre that was created based on multiplayer tabletop games but isn't that at all. Many tries to be very hard though, with zero chance for real success. The end results can never be satisfactory.
maybe you just don't like rpgs
Maybe. Maybe you just aren't too smart. Everything is possible.
[returns to play Underrail]
Maybe we all haven't truly understand: what is a(n) R(ole-)P(laying)G(ame).
 

Serus

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Small but great planet of Potatohole
I never played Fate of Atlantis and I don't get the QfG V hate, I completed it multiple times and had a lot of fun doing so.
Sure, why not. But wouldn't you think that there are better QFG to start the series with? Even storywise, iirc, 5 had several characters from earlier parts.

As to Indiana Jones, go play, you won't regret. Imo it is a solid adventure when it comes to puzzles and, as importantly, has great Indiana Jones type story plot. IIRC, it was at some point considered as a candidate for a potential sequel before it ended as a game. Might be wrong on that.
 

Darth Canoli

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Jun 8, 2018
Messages
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Location
Perched on a tree
Sure, why not. But wouldn't you think that there are better QFG to start the series with? Even storywise, iirc, 5 had several characters from earlier parts.

As to Indiana Jones, go play, you won't regret. Imo it is a solid adventure when it comes to puzzles and, as importantly, has great Indiana Jones type story plot. IIRC, it was at some point considered as a candidate for a potential sequel before it ended as a game. Might be wrong on that.

I don't know, QfG V is probably the easier to run on recent computers, for example, I want to replay QfG IV but I can't get it to look remotely decent, the story doesn't matter if you're not set on playing all 5 and enjoy them enough to do so.
So, new players shouldn't care much about the number, if they can get one to run faithfully, it's good enough.

And I don't know what stopped me from playing Fate of Atlantis, some friends recommended it to me back then so either I didn't have enough time or there's something else, I'll check some reviews when i'm in an adventure games set of mind.
 

Falksi

Arcane
Joined
Feb 14, 2017
Messages
10,539
Location
Nottingham
well I can list dozens of rpgs I consider to be good but I can't list a single adventure game I consider to be good

Either you didn't play any or go play RTS instead.
Take your pick: (In no particular order)
  • Quest for Glory (the number doesn't matter)
  • Quest for Infamy
  • Monkey Island
  • Zack McKracken
  • Maniac Mansion
  • Phantasmagoria (for the FMV gimmick and to add variety to the list)
  • Broken Sword
  • ...
Even leisure suit larry early games are good. There's a hundred at least good if not great adventure games.
no I just hate the genre, I don't have the patience for it. I didn't as a kid, and I don't now.
On the flip side, it seems like a lot of people on this site don't actually like RPGs but like strategy games with RPG elements.

Even if you hate the genre, if you've a sense of humour - which you have from your posts - surely you must have enjoyed some of the Monkey Island original trilogy? Either that or you haven't played it much?
 

Harthwain

Magister
Joined
Dec 13, 2019
Messages
4,692
The fact that crpgs as a whole try to emulate another type of games made for different medium that they can never really do in satisfactory way. This is not a problem or less of a problem for many other genres. For example strategy or wargames. You are supposed to interact with other players too, those genres might have come to the computers from tabelotop as well. However the interactions they require can be simplified and very formulaic. "I put my unit there" "I raise a tax here"... etc. Nothing personal or outside the pre-designed possibilities is needed. Computer can handle those. Also the world itself is more simple and formulaic too. Only a few mechanisms are needed to be simulated, all in an abstract way. However In a crpg (that isn't a dungeon crawler) it isn't the case. And we come back to "unsatisfactory due to its nature".
I disagree - I'd argue you can have a great cRPG if you do the basic actions and let the game flow from there. However, this means the focus is on the emergent gameplay rather than on the scripted narrative and requires a solid base for the gameplay.
 

Twiglard

Poland Stronk
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Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut
From a technical point of view you can freely move through the world and there is no level scaling.

Underrail has levelled NPCs and loot. It's minor, but it's there.

Don't believe me? Try looting electronic containers near the rathound dude in SGS caverns some 10 levels too late.

Try killing the group of 3 thugs near Junkyard's slums earlier and then later.

The loot is also generated from levelled lists. There's no fixed loot, except for very select cases.
 

octavius

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Bjørgvin
On the flip side, it seems like a lot of people on this site don't actually like RPGs but like strategy games with RPG elements.

I probably play more strategy games with RPG elements than pure CRPGs, due to so much high quality user made maps for games like Age of Wonder and HoMM 3. And all the mods for OpenXcom could probably last me several years.
What do we have for RPGs? Romance mods and nude mods.
 
Joined
Jan 14, 2018
Messages
50,754
Codex Year of the Donut
On the flip side, it seems like a lot of people on this site don't actually like RPGs but like strategy games with RPG elements.

I probably play more strategy games with RPG elements than pure CRPGs, due to so much high quality user made maps for games like Age of Wonder and HoMM 3. And all the mods for OpenXcom could probably last me several years.
What do we have for RPGs? Romance mods and nude mods.
To name a few?
Arkwendt, Nehrim, Enderal, Chronicles of Myrtana: Archolos, Fallout: Resurrection, Fallout: Nevada, Fallout: Sonora, Olympus 2207, Ultima V: Lazarus
 

Funposter

Arcane
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Messages
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Australia
I already posted early in this thread, but decided to scan through and didn't see anybody mention the Top 101 list WITH downvoting.

tpuy88W.png


As can be seen, the only highly-ranked game to suffer a genuinely significant change was The Witcher 3, which plummeted from 15th all the way down to 45th. The games with the second and third highest amount of downvotes, Morrowind and Baldur's Gate 2, didn't budge from their spots and help to display the power gap not just between the Top 10 and everything else, but also the tiers within the Top 10. Places 1 and 2 occupy the first tier, 3-6 the next tier, and 7-10 the one after that. With the changes, BG2 is closer to everything else in the second tier and Morrowind arguably drops into a fourth tier with AoD and Dark Souls, so it's really more of a Top 9. Apart from TW3, Divinity Original Sin 2, Pillars of Eternity, ELEX and Dragon Age: Origins all suffered drops of 15-24 spots. D:OS 1 suffered a drop of 8 spots but managed to stay in the top 50, unlike those games.

So, if you go by just the amount of downvotes, the most overrated games are The Witcher 3, Morrowind, Baldur's Gate 2, Planescape: Torment and Neverwinter Nights 2. If you go by amount of places dropped in the chart, it's The Witcher 3, Divinity: Original Sin 2, Pillars of Eternity, ELEX and Dragon Age: Origins.
 
Last edited:

OSK

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Codex 2012 Codex 2013 Codex 2014 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
Wow. That Top 101 with down voting actually restores my faith in RPG Codex a bit. I don't want to frequent a forum that considers Twitcher 3 the 15th greatest RPG of all time.
 

Butter

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Wow. That Top 101 with down voting actually restores my faith in RPG Codex a bit. I don't want to frequent a forum that considers Twitcher 3 the 15th greatest RPG of all time.
It should be the standard format of such polls.
 

Funposter

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Wow. That Top 101 with down voting actually restores my faith in RPG Codex a bit. I don't want to frequent a forum that considers Twitcher 3 the 15th greatest RPG of all time.
Agreed that it's a better poll and reflection of reality.
 

Volrath

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Messages
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Disco Elysium.

I've tried to beat it three times (stopped playing when they started the new update initially) but each time I find myself having to do the same thing to get to the same location like there is hardly any branching paths to the narrative aside from fluff text. Actually the voice acting they added brought some of the game down for me as well.

I guess Planescape kinda does this, but at least it tried combat and somehow managed to be less pretentious, even thought it dealt with deeper material.
Not an rpg.
 

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