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Star Wars Jedi: Fallen Order - action adventure from Respawn Entertainment

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This is kind of a weird argument in that Star Wars at least has different types of iconics (e.g. troopers, scoundrels), but it's kind of like which would you rather play: Batman or the guy getting mugged?
I think Han Solo is an interesting character, yes.

And your argument to begin with is flawed. Batman is the superhero without superpowers, he is the normal guy in a world full of Jedi and Sith.
 

baud

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which would you rather play: Batman or the guy getting mugged?
Was that a gotcha in your mind? Try inspector Gordon.

No it was an honest question. Probably a bad example because I'm not a comic nerd, so although I know who Inspector Gordon is, I have no idea why anyone would want to play him. Certainly not in an action oriented game. Maybe if it was more of an investigative thing.

So uh... good for you, I guess? Still stands, I'd rather play Batman.

maybe not a random mook that batman is beating into the ground, but how about one of his opponents? Like Joker so you'd get some wacky clown-theme gadgets or poison ivy and control a few plants, freeze to get a heavy armor and ice gun...
 

mediocrepoet

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This is kind of a weird argument in that Star Wars at least has different types of iconics (e.g. troopers, scoundrels), but it's kind of like which would you rather play: Batman or the guy getting mugged?
I think Han Solo is an interesting character, yes.

And your argument to begin with is flawed. Batman is the superhero without superpowers, he is the normal guy in a world full of Jedi and Sith.

In the sense that Superman could throw him into orbit, I guess so. But he still has his gadgets and what not. He's basically Iron Man. A normal guy doing who knows what is more like Hawkeye. But like I say, I'm not really a comic nerd, so... sure.

Anyway, I agree with what you said earlier about not reading anyone's posts. As I said earlier, Star Wars at least has a variety of iconics such as scoundrels and troopers. That covers Han Solo. And, oddly enough, there are games about Star Wars' troopers, bounty hunters and smugglers and other non-Jedi. So, as I say, it's a weird argument to try and make. Wah, I wish I could play a game as some rando dickhead.

It's like the people who wanted to play MMOs so they could be a shopkeep or bartender. I don't get it, but whatever.
 

Lyric Suite

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Jedi are just Samurai or Paladins in space. They are an integral part of the setting, so much so the main protagonist happened to be one.

It's true that the original trilogy gave a lot of space to secondary characters, so much so that you don't necessarely need Jedi in a Star Wars game in order for it to be Star Wars and that's been certainly exploited in the past, but Jedi will forever remain popular for a reason, given that the original films focus on them first and foremost, and furthermore, a game like this just seems to be made for them in the first place.
 
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"the jedi are super rare and there's only a handful at best in the entire galaxy"
"btw here's an entire cast of new jedi anytime we decide to make a new star wars-related product"
 

SpaceWizardz

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"the jedi are super rare and there's only a handful at best in the entire galaxy"
"btw here's an entire cast of new jedi anytime we decide to make a new star wars-related product"
Galaxies are big, and Jedi are only rare in one of the several established time periods they have.
Not that there is no room for anything else but Space Samurai with their laser swords and Taoist mysticism are the meat of Star Wars IMO.
 
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Star Wars Galaxies is basically the only videogame that treated Jedi like how they should be in that era. Incredibly rare, and if you became a jedi, you always died eventually.
Of course people's power fantasies caused them to revise this so that anyone could be a jedi and there was no downside to doing such.
 

wahrk

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It wouldn’t be an issue if they would just stop setting games in-between the prequels and OT. Any other time period would allow much more freedom in that regard. I guess they don’t want to get too removed from the films but I don’t know why they keep focusing on the rise of the Empire. It’s inherently not that interesting since you already know that nothing the characters do will be that impactful on the rest of the setting.
 

Ezekiel

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Story is boring so far. The one time I buy a AAA game in almost two years and it's just so so. Dark Souls clone, but does all those things worse than Dark Souls. In FromSoftware's games, I can forgive the enemies respawning whenever you use a bonfire. Actually, "forgive" is the wrong word. I like it there. But here, because Star Wars is so much more real, it just comes off as stupid.

Hate that they also stole the utterly stupid roll. Sure, you can side-step by only pressing Circle once, but it rarely gives you the distance you need.

The levels feel like discount Super Mario rather than structures that would really exist in Star Wars. The stupid slide and wall run areas and the moving platforms that you have to force freeze but which have no conceivable reason for being there. Also, some of the rolling platform puzzles. All feels so toy-like for this photorealistic game pretending to be grounded. More offensive than Uncharted. Tomb Raider reboot levels of cognitive dissonance.

That cinematic stuff is so fake. I'll give a perfect example. There's a part where you take control of an AT-AT and later on in the sequence, you have to shoot down a big carrier craft. Yet, nothing happens if you don't use the secondary cannons on it. You can shoot ten thousand regular lasers at it. It will just drift above the battle forever, until you do decide to take it down. No urgency.
 
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Ezekiel

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Mute this guy, play the music below over the video instead.



Like I said, really silly for a photorealistic game pretending to be grounded.
 

luj1

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"the jedi are super rare and there's only a handful at best in the entire galaxy"
"btw here's an entire cast of new jedi anytime we decide to make a new star wars-related product"
Galaxies are big, and Jedi are only rare in one of the several established time periods they have.
Not that there is no room for anything else but Space Samurai with their laser swords and Taoist mysticism are the meat of Star Wars IMO.

jedi are essentially battle mages

who can also read your mind and make you do stuff

so they should be rare imo
 

gerey

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Galaxies are big, and Jedi are only rare in one of the several established time periods they have.
Issue is that Star Wars can't seem to decide whether Jedi and Sith are mysterious, mythical figures only spoken about in hushed whispers, or well-known and established entities even people in the boonies can instantly recognize and name.

I mean, you go from the Prequels where everyone apparently knows who the Jedi are, to the OT/Mandalorian era where people seem surprised that people with magical powers can even exist, and that's a mere 20 to 30 years after the fall of the Republic and the Jedi Order, and this after the Jedi have been active on the galactic stage for thousands of years. Did the Empire add too much fluoride to the water or was Mando simply dropped one too many times as a baby, he does sound kinda slow.

Also, the inherent problem with Force users is the constant power creep. You go from fairly grounded and "well-balanced" examples like Luke or Vader, that while powerful audiences can still expect to see defeated by non-Force sensitive individuals, to people that can crash a Star Destroyed with their mind, destroy a whole fleet in orbit with a though, crack a planet, fly through space etc.

It’s inherently not that interesting since you already know that nothing the characters do will be that impactful on the rest of the setting.
The problem they have is that BioWare and EA have thoroughly fucked up the Old Republic setting (which was specifically created to give developers more creative freedom), and anything after the end of OT gets too close to the Disney trilogy which is universally despised, or even worse the High Republic, so all that they're really left with is the period between the end of the PT and the end of the OT.

Not that I think anything they do will be able to salvage Star Wars from the death spiral its been in the past 5 years.
 

JamesDixon

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This is kind of a weird argument in that Star Wars at least has different types of iconics (e.g. troopers, scoundrels), but it's kind of like which would you rather play: Batman or the guy getting mugged?
I think Han Solo is an interesting character, yes.

And your argument to begin with is flawed. Batman is the superhero without superpowers, he is the normal guy in a world full of Jedi and Sith.

Wealth is a superpower as is Intelligence. ;)

Galaxies are big,
Yoda was able to detect jedi across the galaxy, and telepathically communicate with them.
There was no way there was this many jedi just in hiding that Yoda was completely unaware of, they were meant to be almost wiped out.

If the Jedi wasn't hiding next to a dark side spot like Yoda was he would be blind. That's established in the PT when he can't detect life or see into the future due to the dark side clouding his vision. That's why in the EU former Jedi are always hiding next to dark side spots. Thus, when Yoda says in ESB that there was another he was talking about Leia who wasn't hiding next to a dark side spot.

If anyone is going to argue numbers keep in mind that George was a spectacular failure in that department. In the original Star Wars novelization it was stated that Jedi numbered only in the 10's of thousands in a galaxy with billions of planets. George vastly deflated the numbers that are necessary to have a logical universe that contains 10's of trillions of living beings. If anything, the numbers of Jedi should be in the millions in the PT and whittled down to the thousands. That is if you want to go with the statement that the Jedi stood as the protectors of the peace and dispensers of justice. A few hundred thousand Jedi will not be sufficient to do it.
 
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JamesDixon

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Issue is that Star Wars can't seem to decide whether Jedi and Sith are mysterious, mythical figures only spoken about in hushed whispers, or well-known and established entities even people in the boonies can instantly recognize and name.

I mean, you go from the Prequels where everyone apparently knows who the Jedi are, to the OT/Mandalorian era where people seem surprised that people with magical powers can even exist, and that's a mere 20 to 30 years after the fall of the Republic and the Jedi Order, and this after the Jedi have been active on the galactic stage for thousands of years. Did the Empire add too much fluoride to the water or was Mando simply dropped one too many times as a baby, he does sound kinda slow.

That really depends upon the era in the EU. In TOR, Jedi and Sith are fairly common with people remembering the Sith Wars among other things. In the OT, Jedi are unknown due to the fact that it's been 20 years since the end of the Clone Wars. Sith were thought to have been destroyed thousands of years prior to the PT. People wouldn't know a Sith and treat them as a fairy tale to scare children with. With Uncle Palpy declaring the Jedi are traitors and exterminated the Empire's propaganda machine took over. Within a single generation, teachers can warp what a person knows combined with the propaganda. If you want real world proof just look at the rise of Marxism and the rejection of a country's history due to claims of racism etc...

Also, the inherent problem with Force users is the constant power creep. You go from fairly grounded and "well-balanced" examples like Luke or Vader, that while powerful audiences can still expect to see defeated by non-Force sensitive individuals, to people that can crash a Star Destroyed with their mind, destroy a whole fleet in orbit with a though, crack a planet, fly through space etc.

That's the thing about the EU, George gave the fans the ability to declare what our own personal canon is. If you don't like certain aspects then they aren't in your canon. If you want to remove Starkiller and other super powerful force users go for it. Nobody is going to say you're wrong because you're not. It's your canon. Just like I reject the Disknee canon altogether and stick with the old G and EU canon. Fuck Disknee.

The problem they have is that BioWare and EA have thoroughly fucked up the Old Republic setting (which was specifically created to give developers more creative freedom), and anything after the end of OT gets too close to the Disney trilogy which is universally despised, or even worse the High Republic, so all that they're really left with is the period between the end of the PT and the end of the OT.

Not that I think anything they do will be able to salvage Star Wars from the death spiral its been in the past 5 years.

Did they when you decide what is your canon? Reject what you hate and embrace what you like. Fuck everyone else with a double-bladed lightsaber. Start by rejecting the Disknee shit that bears the Star Wars name and work from there. Just like I reject Disknee Star Bores and Wizards of the Woke Not-D&D. As a consumer take a stand and live by your principles.

If you want Old Republic then stick with the original Tales of the Jedi stuff from Dark Horse Comics. It's far superior to the shit Biowaste and EA shovel out the door.
 

gerey

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In the OT, Jedi are unknown due to the fact that it's been 20 years since the end of the Clone Wars. Sith were thought to have been destroyed thousands of years prior to the PT. People wouldn't know a Sith and treat them as a fairy tale to scare children with.
I'll agree that it makes sense that the Sith being fairly unknown since they were nearly wiped out, but people forgetting about the Jedi in a mere 20 years?

It doesn't make any sense, especially since instantaneous communication across the galaxy is possible, and it's not like Jedi hiding who they are, so events featuring Jedi would be televized for the masses. It's a bit of lore that is incongruous between the PT and OT.

So maybe the Imperial propaganda machine could have brainwashed the younger generations to forget the Jedi, but that theory also introduces its own set of problems - for one, the stranglehold the Empire has on the galaxy wasn't and isn't absolute - they spend the better part of 20 years fighting Separatists holdouts and rebellions, and the Outer Rim is largely lawless with a token Imperial presence, and then you have to take into account that many planets lack the infrastructure and resources to provide mandatory education for children.

George gave the fans the ability to declare what our own personal canon is
No, he didn't, he specifically said the movies and Clone Wars are canon, and anything else isn't unless confirmed by the former two and is subject to change and retconning as necessary. Lucas didn't much care about the EU and largely gave the authors free reign, which was both good and bad.
 

JamesDixon

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In the OT, Jedi are unknown due to the fact that it's been 20 years since the end of the Clone Wars. Sith were thought to have been destroyed thousands of years prior to the PT. People wouldn't know a Sith and treat them as a fairy tale to scare children with.
I'll agree that it makes sense that the Sith being fairly unknown since they were nearly wiped out, but people forgetting about the Jedi in a mere 20 years?

It doesn't make any sense, especially since instantaneous communication across the galaxy is possible, and it's not like Jedi hiding who they are, so events featuring Jedi would be televized for the masses. It's a bit of lore that is incongruous between the PT and OT.

So maybe the Imperial propaganda machine could have brainwashed the younger generations to forget the Jedi, but that theory also introduces its own set of problems - for one, the stranglehold the Empire has on the galaxy wasn't and isn't absolute - they spend the better part of 20 years fighting Separatists holdouts and rebellions, and the Outer Rim is largely lawless with a token Imperial presence, and then you have to take into account that many planets lack the infrastructure and resources to provide mandatory education for children.

The Empire controls the interstellar communications system and maintains a strict policy on what is broadcast. If it's Jedi then it will be played as they are traitors with the valiant Inquisitors and Imperial troops bringing them to justice.

The Separatists weren't fighting in between the PT/OT. You know why? They were all droids. The entire war was designed that the Separatists would end up losing which is shown in the OT. This is why droids are so hated in the OT is due to the Clone Wars. Once the war ended, the droids were shut down and the Separatists rejoined the Republic/Empire.

The Outer Rim is the minority of the population. It is sparsely populated compared to the regions going towards the Deep Core. The closer you get to the core the more people there are. Jedi didn't operate that far outside of the Republic usually and were already myths as per Star Wars novelization.

George gave the fans the ability to declare what our own personal canon is
No, he didn't, he specifically said the movies and Clone Wars are canon, and anything else isn't unless confirmed by the former two and is subject to change and retconning as necessary. Lucas didn't much care about the EU and largely gave the authors free reign, which was both good and bad.

You just repeated what I said. There is G-Canon which is George Lucas canon that is the 6 movies and The Clone Wars TV show. Everything else is EU which you, as the consumer, decide what you want to be canon. If you haven't read a book or comic or even played a game in the EU then it doesn't exist in your canon. Your canon is what you have personally experienced.

"Anything in the films and from George Lucas (including unpublished internal notes that we might receive from him or from the film production department) is considered ”G” canon. Next we have what we call continuity ”C” canon which is pretty much everything else. There is secondary ”S” continuity canon which we use for some older published materials and things that may or may not fit just right. [...] Lastly there is non-continuity ”N” which we rarely use except in the case of a blatant contradiction or for things that have been cut."

"By everything else I mean EVERYthing else. Novels, comics, junior novels, videogames, trading card games, roleplaying games, toys, websites, television."---Leland Chee, LLP continuity database admin

I went with the strict two canon policy that was the original. You have G-Canon and C-Canon. You pick what YOU want for your C-Canon. If you disagree with this then I feel sorry for you in being a mindless consumer drone to the Disknee Empire.
 

gerey

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If anyone is going to argue numbers keep in mind that George was a spectacular failure in that department. In the original Star Wars novelization it was stated that Jedi numbered only in the 10's of thousands in a galaxy with billions of planets. George vastly deflated the numbers that are necessary to have a logical universe that contains 10's of trillions of living beings. If anything, the numbers of Jedi should be in the millions in the PT and whittled down to the thousands. That is if you want to go with the statement that the Jedi stood as the protectors of the peace and dispensers of justice. A few hundred thousand Jedi will not be sufficient to do it.
Yeah, Lucas, like far too many fantasy/sci-fi writers has little understanding of scale and numbers, or how they would impact worldbuidling.

In the second episode, when the clones are being introduced those aliens that made them mention that this grand army of the Republic is made up of a measly 1 million clones. Some have interpreted that the units mentioned are actually armies, but it's never fully clarified.

Also, the movies never really explain how the Republic plans to win a war against an opponent that can literally drown them in droids. I remember some autist crunching numbers and coming to the realization that a single, average planet could produce trillions of droids in a single year.

Then, as you say, the size and population of the galaxy is just too massive to easily conceptualize. Even 40k, as insane as it is, never claims that the Imperium has more than 3 million habitable planets, and even that propels the human population into the trillions, with billions of active soldiers on a million different battlefields.

Yet when wars do happen in Star Wars they tend to look like fairly tame affairs - you won't see anything like the casuality rates of LOGH or 40k.

The Empire controls the interstellar communications system and maintains a strict policy on what is broadcast. If it's Jedi then it will be played as they are traitors with the valiant Inquisitors and Imperial troops bringing them to justice.
And what has that to do with people forgetting Jedi, especially if the Empire is busy telling everyone on their equivalent of television that Jedi are traitors?

The point is that it makes little sense that people have forgotten about the Jedi in a mere 20 years, especially since many recall both the Republic and the Clone Wars.

The Separatists weren't fighting in between the PT/OT. You know why? They were all droids. The entire war was designed that the Separatists would end up losing which is shown in the OT. This is why droids are so hated in the OT is due to the Clone Wars. Once the war ended, the droids were shut down and the Separatists rejoined the Republic/Empire.
No, this is pretty much confirmed, even as recently as in Rebels. There were many Separatist holdouts, hidden bases, rogue fleets and even whole systems that kept the fight going after the Republic was toppled. While the mainstay of the Separatists were droids, there were plenty of planets that deployed living troops.

If you haven't read a book or comic or even played a game in the EU then it doesn't exist in your canon. Your canon is what you have personally experienced.
Except plenty of EU stories reference each other, or are direct sequels to them. As far as the EU is concerned the Thrawn trilogy is pretty much canon, since it's basically the foundation upon which the rest of the EU rests upon.

If you disagree with this then I feel sorry for you in being a mindless consumer drone to the Disknee Empire.
I don't think you quite grasp what I said. Movies and Clone Wars/Rebels is canon, anything that directly contradicts them is not, everything else is treated as canon by Lucas Arts, the writers, the fans etc. unless specified otherwise.
 

JamesDixon

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Yeah, Lucas, like far too many fantasy/sci-fi writers has little understanding of scale and numbers, or how they would impact worldbuidling.

In the second episode, when the clones are being introduced those aliens that made them mention that this grand army of the Republic is made up of a measly 1 million clones. Some have interpreted that the units mentioned are actually armies, but it's never fully clarified.

Also, the movies never really explain how the Republic plans to win a war against an opponent that can literally drown them in droids. I remember some autist crunching numbers and coming to the realization that a single, average planet could produce trillions of droids in a single year.

Then, as you say, the size and population of the galaxy is just too massive to easily conceptualize. Even 40k, as insane as it is, never claims that the Imperium has more than 3 million habitable planets.

Winning the war for whom? Uncle Palpy was in charge of both sides. No matter what he would win. It didn't make one bit of difference if it was the Republic or the Separatists.

And what has that to do with people forgetting Jedi, especially if the Empire is busy telling everyone on their equivalent of television that Jedi are traitors?

The point is that it makes little sense that people have forgotten about the Jedi in a mere 20 years, especially since many recall both the Republic and the Clone Wars.

I already explained that in a single generation you can turn children to hate specific things. I even gave you the real world as an example and you fail to understand it. This is a you problem.

No, this is pretty much confirmed, even as recently as in Rebels. There were many Separatist holdouts, hidden bases, rogue fleets and even whole systems that kept the fight going after the Republic was toppled. While the mainstay of the Separatists were droids, there were plenty of planets that deployed living troops.

Rebels is not G-Canon. It is non-canon fanfiction by Disknee. Shall you try again? Rebels was started after George sold the IP to Disknee. As such it does not fall under the definition of G-Canon. C-Canon was removed by the Evil White Slavers at Disknee and no longer exists in their view. I reject their view and stick with what George established before the White Slavers got ahold of the IP.

Except plenty of EU stories reference each other, or are direct sequels to them. As far as the EU is concerned the Thrawn trilogy is pretty much canon, since it's basically the foundation upon which the rest of the EU rests upon.

There are also those that contradict them. The point still stands. You decide what is or what isn't canon. Are you afraid of controlling what you like?

I don't think you quite grasp what I said. Movies and Clone Wars/Rebels is canon, anything that directly contradicts them is not, everything else is treated as canon by Lucas Arts, the writers, the fans etc. unless specified otherwise.

The first 6 movies and Clone Wars are G-Canon. Rebels is Disknee fanfiction unless you're a mindless drone of the House of Rat. Are you a mindless drone of the House of Rat? If so then don't talk me. Disknee fanfiction is not canon to me. You can understand a simple sentence like right?
 
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Dr1f7

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Mute this guy, play the music below over the video instead.



Like I said, really silly for a photorealistic game pretending to be grounded.


o bro i loved that part of mario
i could listen to this song all day

love the little penguin mofo
mucHCLj.gif
 

Ezekiel

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Still playing Fallen Order. Does EA not understand that the Empire are fascists who would never employ other races in their uniforms or do they just not care?

20220213012037-1.jpg


In before someone mentions extended universe material that misunderstands it too. (I wouldn't know, since I haven't read any of it and have barely watched any.)
 
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lightbane

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Wasn't there an Imperial angry black woman with afro (of course!) as a pilot in the recent Squadrons game?
 

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