Underrail: The Incline Awakens

[Major_Blackhart]

How many enemies perform bleeding attacks? I just did a check, and besides humans with feats or specific weapons, the only wildlife that can actually do it is Rathounds with Rend, Burrower Warriors, Bladelings, Chop Chop, and maybe a few others.

Seems like a missed opportunity. I'd love to see more sources of bleeding stacking up. But the thing is I've used heavy armors so much, either riot suits OR metal, that these guys don't actually manage to penetrate my defenses.

 

[lukaszek]

maybe because along the way bleed became enabler for stuff like taste for blood or eviscerate. Actual bleed dmg? Just like poison dmg it isnt much in game where you worry about number of enemies you can put down in a single turn. Funny considering that in theory you could apply a bunch of poison and bleed stacks, then flashbang enemies and see them die. Except dmg is too low for it to happen. Different story with gas grenade and flashbang for example

 

[Parabalus]

Cutthroat bleed is pretty baller though. Only useful on DOM though.

someone make me a high con build capable of doing damage and passing attribute checks

ItsChon

Too vague. What weapon do you want to use? Do you want to be ranged or up close and personal? And checks are largely based on skills. The attribute checks that are based on base stats are almost all agility/perception, which can be boosted, and the rest are relatively minor and can also be boosted.

Tons of lore is gated behind INT/WILL though.

PER/AGI stuff is super useful for skipping annoying stuff, especially in the XPAC, but is arguably less 'important'.

 

[Zeem]

On topic of locusts and Fetid Marsh.
Personally I consider the latter to be the second worst part of the game, right after Gauntlet. It is the nexus of almost everything wrong with Expedition - locust hive spam, lack of cover, enemies that are impossible to reach with melee, on-foot fights versus serpents. On their own each one of these is tolerable, but together they make for a terrible slog. A major problem with locusts and serpents is the fact that they are clearly balanced to be fought either in tight corridors or riding a jet. Their attacks have too much effective range and they are too happy to pelt you from a distance instead of closing in and engaging in melee. Permanent rusting acid entanglement from half a dozen wyrms attacking you at the same time does not make for a particularly riveting melee gameplay, not to mention all the hives that are unreachable on foot.
I think a lot of this bullshit could be mitigated with AI tweaks to limit the amount of projectile spam they do. Reducing the number of wyrms in the Marsh on Dom would also be an improvement..

someone make me a high con build capable of doing damage and passing attribute checks

Here’s 2 out of the 3 things you asked for. Attribute checks suck

Wonderful thumbnail.

 

[Blaine]

Almost enough Detection to detect Death Stalkers in a timely manner, just need some Third Eye and I'll be good to go.

View attachment 23435

Where did you get that portrait from?

It might be a new vanilla portrait (that's what I assumed), but if not, it's probably from a collection of user-made portraits that I installed years ago (plus a few of my own).

I believe there's a portrait thread in the dedicated Underrail subforum, might want to check there. I'm at work currently and can't check.

 

[Tygrende]

maybe because along the way bleed became enabler for stuff like taste for blood or eviscerate. Actual bleed dmg? Just like poison dmg it isnt much in game where you worry about number of enemies you can put down in a single turn. Funny considering that in theory you could apply a bunch of poison and bleed stacks, then flashbang enemies and see them die. Except dmg is too low for it to happen. Different story with gas grenade and flashbang for example

 

[lukaszek]

nice try, stop trying to make xbows a thing

 

[Tygrende]

Too late.

 

[lukaszek]

heartbreaker bear traps are funny I give you that.

 

[Blaine]

Too late.

With that many poison traps and crawler caltrops deployed, my grandma's cane would be able to kill those pipeworkers. I ain't sold on jack shit. Literally any other ranged weapon would also kill them, and probably faster.

I played a Crossbows build many years ago, before they were buffed, and my biggest issue (other than shit armor penetration) was their Godawful accuracy. They have less optimal than an AR and no dedicated scope slot, unlike a sniper rifle—so if you use a scope, you get one other enhancement.

A dedicated scope slot would, all by itself, bring Crossbows up to par. There is also no reason not to have one other than game balance; I've used crossbows in real life, and all of them that are worth a damn have a scope attachment rail/hardpoint, which doesn't require sacrificing other components. Crossbows in Underrail are not good enough to be denied a scope slot for the sake of game balance, so there's absolutely no good reason for them not to have one.

Pretty much the entire justification for their reduced range, lower optimal, and no scope slot is that they can kill silently at range, and yet you will still end up in pitched battles on the regular, because they can't powernuke an entire small roomful of dudes like a silenced SMG can.

End of rant.

 

[Blaine]

Oh yeah, I almost forgot: Crossbows require you to use up your utility slots in order to shoot anything but basic bolts. This is quite a built-in disadvantage. You don't need another skill (such as Throwing) to use them, and they don't have inherent cooldowns, but you do need 2-3 feats to get the most out of them. It seems to me that their real purpose is to crowd you out of using grenades, in addition to devouring feats. Crossbows devour more feats than a sniper build, particularly if you want to maximize crits, but no crossbow bolt exists that can one-shot a tin can (including DOMINATING Balor, under the right conditions) from across the map.

In my opinion, the additional AP cost of special bolts should be removed entirely, and Marksman retooled for +10% additive crossbow accuracy. Its specialization would remain the same (up to +5% further additive accuracy).

It's good to know that bleed/poison crossbow builds can at least be viable. I may have to try one to really get a post-Expedition taste of Crossbows, so that I can bitch and complain about them with up-to-date knowledge.

 

[lukaszek]

With that many poison traps and crawler caltrops deployed, my grandma's cane would be able to kill those pipeworkers. I ain't sold on jack shit. Literally any other ranged weapon would also kill them, and probably faster.

you missed the part where enemy dies to single bear trap dipped in heart stopper poison, without further help. Id say its pretty huge

 

[ItsChon]

someone make me a high con build capable of doing damage and passing attribute checks

ItsChon

Too vague. What weapon do you want to use? Do you want to be ranged or up close and personal? And checks are largely based on skills. The attribute checks that are based on base stats are almost all agility/perception, which can be boosted, and the rest are relatively minor and can also be boosted.

last time I played underrail was not too long after release, I just want a build for dominating

The Sledgehammer Tank Build I posted earlier in the thread is a great build. You can do a tank Psion/AR/Psion + AR build if you want as well. I can't just give you a build without direction. Tell me what you want to use and I can post something.

 

[Blaine]

you missed the part where enemy dies to single bear trap dipped in heart stopper poison, without further help. Id say its pretty huge

It's no wonder that the best accompaniment to crossbows is a utility than can kill the enemy with absolutely no assistance from the crossbow whatsoever.

Don't let Styg see these videos, or every enemy will be carrying 2-3 antidotes.

 

[Major_Blackhart]

ItsChon Can you post that build? I'm rocking a Tin Can AR build right now. Haven't done a sledge hammer build since before Expedition.

 

[ItsChon]

ItsChon Can you post that build? I'm rocking a Tin Can AR build right now. Haven't done a sledge hammer build since before Expedition.

It's not a full Sledgehammer build, though I'm sure I could find/put something together for you if you wanted. I use Psionics to poke and deal with enemies long range, before smashing my sledgehammer into the face of those who come too close. When everyone is half health after walking through a hail of Psionics, it's easy to one shot people.

-snip-

-snip-

 

[Major_Blackhart]

They got snipped?

 

[Blaine]

They got snipped?

I don't know why he posted them that way rather than simply posting links, but just click the little hyperlink arrow: ↑

 

[ItsChon]

I wanted to quote myself, but I didn't want to clutter the thread with my large paragraphs, so I went ahead and just posted the links without all the text. Man has been on the forums for almost as long as I've been alive, so I figured he would know. Regardless, if you use it, lmk what you think Major_Blackhart

 

[Blaine]

Man has been on the forums for almost as long as I've been alive, so I figured he would know.

He spends about 90% of his Codex time cranking his hog to pics of trannies, and doesn't pay much attention to the technical particulars.

 

[Major_Blackhart]

Not just trannies.

 

[Blaine]

Refurbished Steyr-Auch compared to q164 Chimera (no Gun Nut).

Analysis: Top-of-the-line damage, optimal range, and magazine capacity; middling burst precision, but coupled with good potshot precision; higher crit chance, lower crit damage bonus; higher mag capacity; and, importantly for many builds, only 5 STR.

Overall, it's top of the line.

Spoiler

Just don't compare its damage, optimal, and AP cost to that of a Super Scoped Cyclon, like I did, and then get pissed off about crossbows all over again.

 

[ciox]

It's nice how they keep squeezing real world parallels in there, a 9mm version of the Steyr Aug does exist, and its magazines come in 25 and 32 round variants, which is what you get in the game for the Steyr-Auch, in its basic and refurbished version respectively.

 

[Blaine]

It's nice how they keep squeezing real world parallels in there, a 9mm version of the Steyr Aug does exist, and its magazines come in 25 and 32 round variants, which is what you get in the game for the Steyr-Auch, in its basic and refurbished version respectively.

The Steyr AUG 9mm conversion fires 9x19mm Parabellum. Therefore, the Steyr-Auch fires 9x19mm Parallellum.

In all seriousness though, 9x19mm Parabellum is a pistol cartridge, and the Steyr AUG has what is called a "mid-length" 20-inch (50 cm) barrel, only a few inches more than the average carbine. It's generally referred to as a carbine.

I can't get an exact reading right now because I don't have the materials, but I'm going to put together a Super String q160+ Tornado at some point, and I absolutely assure you the damage per bolt will be no more than 25-30% higher than a single bullet fired from the Steyr-Auch, and with an additional 125% mech resistance penalty, as well as only 3/4 the optimal. Crossbows truly were designed to cause suffering in this game, by someone who has likely never laid hands on a crossbow.

Yes, the range even of 9mm Parabellum fired from a carbine is much greater than that of a broadhead bolt, but if ranges were actually realistic in this game, a novice would be able to fire a sniper rifle accurately from one corner of a screen in Foundry to the other. An expert would be able to fire a precision rifle accurately from one side of all of Foundry to the other.

Meanwhile, I challenge anyone to hunt a deer with potshots from a Steyr AUG 9mm conversion.

I just can't let it go. I don't want crossbows to be shit, it really annoys me.

 

[ciox]

It's nice how they keep squeezing real world parallels in there, a 9mm version of the Steyr Aug does exist, and its magazines come in 25 and 32 round variants, which is what you get in the game for the Steyr-Auch, in its basic and refurbished version respectively.

The Steyr AUG 9mm conversion fires 9x19mm Parabellum. Therefore, the Steyr-Auch fires 9x19mm Parallellum.

In all seriousness though, 9x19mm Parabellum is a pistol cartridge, and the Steyr AUG has what is called a "mid-length" 20-inch (50 cm) barrel, only a few inches more than the average carbine. It's generally referred to as a carbine.

I can't get an exact reading right now because I don't have the materials, but I'm going to put together a Super String q160+ Tornado at some point, and I absolutely assure you the damage per bolt will be no more than 25-30% higher than a single bullet fired from the Steyr-Auch, and with an additional 125% mech resistance penalty, as well as only 3/4 the optimal. Crossbows truly were designed to cause suffering in this game, by someone who has likely never laid hands on a crossbow.

Yes, the range even of 9mm Parabellum fired from a carbine is much greater than that of a broadhead bolt, but if ranges were actually realistic in this game, a novice would be able to fire a sniper rifle accurately from one corner of a screen in Foundry to the other. An expert would be able to fire a precision rifle accurately from one side of all of Foundry to the other.

Meanwhile, I challenge anyone to hunt a deer with potshots from a Steyr AUG 9mm conversion.

I just can't let it go. I don't want crossbows to be shit, it really annoys me.

You have to personally make up your mind whether the bullets in Underrail are all rifle caliber, or all pistol caliber, because it's not mentioned what they are, and they can't be both at once. At any rate I don't see how it changes much, it's still real world inspiration.

Crossbows are balanced around you firing a Shock Bolt MK3 with each shot, that's just how it is. Maybe later Infusion will take a different route with crossbow balance.