Younger generations and retro gaming.

[JarlFrank]

There is definitely a hand-holding element which me & my mates had to break in them to start with. But after a few family sessions together they soon picked it up.

 

[JarlFrank]

Dishonored and Thief often display similar level design, but (in addition to the obvious gameplay differences) they end up being massively different experiences because Dishonored literally puts a floating arrow in the player's retina at all times that details exactly where to go.

Only if you leave that on in the options menu.
I immediately deactivated that shit before even starting the game, and the experience was improved a thousandfold.

 

[†††]

Dishonored and Thief often display similar level design, but (in addition to the obvious gameplay differences) they end up being massively different experiences because Dishonored literally puts a floating arrow in the player's retina at all times that details exactly where to go.

Only if you leave that on in the options menu.
I immediately deactivated that shit before even starting the game, and the experience was improved a thousandfold.

I've just remembered when one of Dishonored’s playtesters wouldn’t even try going up some stairs (needed to advance the game) because a guard told him that they were off limits.

 

[Viata]

Men of the sea didn't have manuals.

Many games had you looking up some pages on manual because of copy protection.

 

[Rahdulan]

Pages?

 

[Rincewind]

I admit it takes some deconditioning to go back to old games, even for me who grew up with them. It's a bit like going back to the gym after just laying on the couch and watching TV for 6 months straight. It will take some effort and perseverance first.

E.g. I started playing Rick Dangerous and the original Lode Runner a few weeks ago, and first it was hard as hell, I hated the controls, etc. But you know what, after persevering for a few hours, I'm blasting through the levels like 30 years ago and the controls are just fine. And that's exactly how everybody played these back in the day, they sucked at first, and kept trying until they got better at it. It's literally like building up muscle, these games require skill.

Same goes for the no handholding in old text adventures and RPGs. You'll feel quite helpless at first, but after a while you'll develop the same habits everybody had back in the day in order to succeed (examine everything, pick up anything that's not nailed down, have a notebook handy and make your own notes, draw maps, etc.) Like with everything, what you get out of it is proportional with what you put in — I get much more satisfaction out of these old games (or new games that are old-school in spirit) because they require dedication and perseverance. They certainly help build character better than the new "press X to win" school of modern game design.

Oh, and limiting online time also helps, so no scrolling through feeds, Twitter, binge watching YouTube, and shit like that. Incidentally, that's also good advice for increasing your life quality in general; you can't achieve much without the ability to focus.

 

[Morpheus Kitami]

For younger generations, that is people who grew up with a smartphone in their hand, the problem is that they have just so much competing for their attention. I don't know the rough numbers, but there's something like 100 books, albums, movies, TV episodes, games and something else I'm forgetting, each, released each day. Added to the grand total of these that already exist over the course of the years. Choice paralysis is a thing...even here, since you often see people complain about not having anything to play. That's not even what absorbs everyone's attention either, that's social media of all stripes. How can a game that requires you to give it considerable attention compete when ever a game that basically plays itself is still having to fight for that attention? Even when these big Youtubers play old games, granting them a bit of exposure I don't think their fans are playing it for fun as much as to copy their idols.
However, it is folly to think this is unique to zoomers and generation alpha. People as far back as boomers are/were guilty of not having patience for this stuff either, you just didn't notice. Someone had to dumb things down and give out the participation awards. Not everyone wanted one of those, even if they got them. Some of the zoomers around here have beaten the original Wizardry titles, while a lot of the older folks haven't. (and I'm willing to bet its some of the ones whining about the whippersnappers too) The only thing you can do is try to encourage people to do better and to think on things better.

 

[Mostly_Harmless]

Many games had you looking up some pages on manual because of copy protection.

Had to use disassembler/hex-editor for those, this is pretty much how and why I learned assembler. Sometimes digging into code to solve these "meta-puzzles" was more fun than the actual puzzles the game offered.

 

[Norfleet]

Many games had you looking up some pages on manual because of copy protection.

I remember when we had to learn everything about pirates to pirate Pirates!.

 

[Pentium]

For younger generations, that is people who grew up with a smartphone in their hand, the problem is that they have just so much competing for their attention. I don't know the rough numbers, but there's something like 100 books, albums, movies, TV episodes, games and something else I'm forgetting, each, released each day. Added to the grand total of these that already exist over the course of the years. Choice paralysis is a thing...even here, since you often see people complain about not having anything to play. That's not even what absorbs everyone's attention either, that's social media of all stripes. How can a game that requires you to give it considerable attention compete when ever a game that basically plays itself is still having to fight for that attention? Even when these big Youtubers play old games, granting them a bit of exposure I don't think their fans are playing it for fun as much as to copy their idols.
However, it is folly to think this is unique to zoomers and generation alpha. People as far back as boomers are/were guilty of not having patience for this stuff either, you just didn't notice. Someone had to dumb things down and give out the participation awards. Not everyone wanted one of those, even if they got them. Some of the zoomers around here have beaten the original Wizardry titles, while a lot of the older folks haven't. (and I'm willing to bet its some of the ones whining about the whippersnappers too) The only thing you can do is try to encourage people to do better and to think on things better.

This has a lot to do with the omnipresent mainstream consumerism encouraged by the producers and social authorities because you have to support the everlasting economic growth of the unsustainable system and since the number of producers is enormous in globalised world and the number of dealers perhaps magnitudes higher, you're under a constant marketing pressure, which might ironically have the opposite effect like the mentioned choice paralysis or apathy, but essentialy you are being wilfully turned into addicted, obidiently masticating sheeple that easily eats any low-grade shit thrown. The dumbing down of everything to the lowest common denominator to reach masses and inducing instant gratification is a part of this. And this manipulation has been very successful because it seemingly improves the quality of life of people and the younger you are, the more successful it gets cuz parents are consumption jukies too and do nothing to save you from it, rather they'll rise you into it instead.

This is true for people without clearly defined values and preferences (which the system tries to suppress). I'm rather niche in almost all aspects of my life and I try to pick carefully whenever the option and I usually know very well what I'm generally after to begin with, be it games, movies, shows, books, food, whatever. I have never really seen any new blockbuster in cinema or show upon release, fastfood makes me sick. I've got a specific taste and I'm happy with little. And people like that are those who beat Wizardry today.

I've don't have serious trouble to play very old games (early 90s child) if they're good enough but I have some demands too, but certainly not instant gratification or dumbed down gameplay.

 

[Morenatsu.]

I have no taste!

 

[Pentium]

I have no taste!

nope

 

[Zenithsan]

Love to see the boomer gang bitching bout new games hand-holding, when they grew up with games that had LITERAL MANUALS with dozens of pages on HOW TO PLAY THE GAME.

 

[Hace El Oso]

Love to see the boomer gang bitching bout new games hand-holding, when they grew up with games that had LITERAL MANUALS with dozens of pages on HOW TO PLAY THE GAME.

Unfortunately no amount of hand-holding will make zoomers literate.

 

[Carpincho Pampeano]

UPDATE

She's in the Alice in Wonderland world now, had to tell her that there's abilities to equip , she also missed a door in the throne room where there's two guards standing, don't know how she missed that.

 

[Assisted Living Godzilla]

Is Kindgom Hearts considered retro now?

It's 20 years old now. As much time between its release and now as between Pac-Man and the year 2000.

 

[JamesDixon]

Love to see the boomer gang bitching bout new games hand-holding, when they grew up with games that had LITERAL MANUALS with dozens of pages on HOW TO PLAY THE GAME.

Oh yes, I'm playing one such game. It's the SSI Pools of Radiance with its abridged AD&D rules so players understand what they're doing. It also has the entire history of the world, journal entries, council proclamations, etc... The beautiful thing is that there are plenty of false entries in the proclamations and journals that will utterly confuse you. Did I mention the code wheel that is both the copy protection and translating onscreen text into readable messages? This all requires actually reading, comprehension, and critical thinking skills which your generation lacks. Tell us again how bad Gen X was again I dare ya.

Did I mention that Pool of Radiance and the other SSI Gold Box games lack an in game journal and even quest markers? That's right you were also expected to keep notes of your quests and make your own game maps for navigation.

 

[Morenatsu.]

reading fucking sucks i only play games with no words

 

[Viata]

Is Kindgom Hearts considered retro now?

It's 20 years old now. As much time between its release and now as between Pac-Man and the year 2000.

Is Pac-Man retro now too?

 

[Strig]

Many games had you looking up some pages on manual because of copy protection.

Had to use disassembler/hex-editor for those, this is pretty much how and why I learned assembler. Sometimes digging into code to solve these "meta-puzzles" was more fun than the actual puzzles the game offered.

Sometimes you could even guess the word. My first adventure with Dark Sun: Shattered Lands started after I downloaded it from an abandonware site during my IT classes in high school. I brought the files home on floppies, I didn't really bother with downloading a manual, it probably wasn't even there to begin with. I made my first party, conquered the arena, escaped to the sewers and... the game went "no pasaran" and asked me a question about a five letter word starting with "p" on a page such-and-such of the manual. RPG? Five letter word? First letter's "p"? I plonked in "power" smashing every key with fervent intent and lo and behold — hemos pasado. All these years later and I'm still kind of proud of that.

 

[Zenithsan]

Love to see the boomer gang bitching bout new games hand-holding, when they grew up with games that had LITERAL MANUALS with dozens of pages on HOW TO PLAY THE GAME.

Oh yes, I'm playing one such game. It's the SSI Pools of Radiance with its abridged AD&D rules so players understand what they're doing. It also has the entire history of the world, journal entries, council proclamations, etc... The beautiful thing is that there are plenty of false entries in the proclamations and journals that will utterly confuse you. Did I mention the code wheel that is both the copy protection and translating onscreen text into readable messages? This all requires actually reading, comprehension, and critical thinking skills which your generation lacks. Tell us again how bad Gen X was again I dare ya.

Did I mention that Pool of Radiance and the other SSI Gold Box games lack an in game journal and even quest markers? That's right you were also expected to keep notes of your quests and make your own game maps for navigation.

pool of what?

 

[Carpincho Pampeano]

Love to see the boomer gang bitching bout new games hand-holding, when they grew up with games that had LITERAL MANUALS with dozens of pages on HOW TO PLAY THE GAME.

Oh yes, I'm playing one such game. It's the SSI Pools of Radiance with its abridged AD&D rules so players understand what they're doing. It also has the entire history of the world, journal entries, council proclamations, etc... The beautiful thing is that there are plenty of false entries in the proclamations and journals that will utterly confuse you. Did I mention the code wheel that is both the copy protection and translating onscreen text into readable messages? This all requires actually reading, comprehension, and critical thinking skills which your generation lacks. Tell us again how bad Gen X was again I dare ya.

Did I mention that Pool of Radiance and the other SSI Gold Box games lack an in game journal and even quest markers? That's right you were also expected to keep notes of your quests and make your own game maps for navigation.

pool of what?

Of trannies, like every western RPG.

 

[JamesDixon]

Love to see the boomer gang bitching bout new games hand-holding, when they grew up with games that had LITERAL MANUALS with dozens of pages on HOW TO PLAY THE GAME.

Oh yes, I'm playing one such game. It's the SSI Pools of Radiance with its abridged AD&D rules so players understand what they're doing. It also has the entire history of the world, journal entries, council proclamations, etc... The beautiful thing is that there are plenty of false entries in the proclamations and journals that will utterly confuse you. Did I mention the code wheel that is both the copy protection and translating onscreen text into readable messages? This all requires actually reading, comprehension, and critical thinking skills which your generation lacks. Tell us again how bad Gen X was again I dare ya.

Did I mention that Pool of Radiance and the other SSI Gold Box games lack an in game journal and even quest markers? That's right you were also expected to keep notes of your quests and make your own game maps for navigation.

pool of what?

See this only proves that your generation is retarded. You can't even do a simple web search using the game's name to find out what it is because of retardation and laziness.

 

[Zenithsan]

Love to see the boomer gang bitching bout new games hand-holding, when they grew up with games that had LITERAL MANUALS with dozens of pages on HOW TO PLAY THE GAME.

Oh yes, I'm playing one such game. It's the SSI Pools of Radiance with its abridged AD&D rules so players understand what they're doing. It also has the entire history of the world, journal entries, council proclamations, etc... The beautiful thing is that there are plenty of false entries in the proclamations and journals that will utterly confuse you. Did I mention the code wheel that is both the copy protection and translating onscreen text into readable messages? This all requires actually reading, comprehension, and critical thinking skills which your generation lacks. Tell us again how bad Gen X was again I dare ya.

Did I mention that Pool of Radiance and the other SSI Gold Box games lack an in game journal and even quest markers? That's right you were also expected to keep notes of your quests and make your own game maps for navigation.

pool of what?

Of trannies, like every western RPG.

Dude, I know I might sound crazy, but just imagine, for a second, that trannies were real.
Not the legendary creature from the beloved rpg series "Pool of trannies", but the real deal here IRL.
A mighty creature; half woman half man, with tits, junk, pussy and ass. What a delightful succulent experience that could be for very few lucky people.

 

[anvi]

My little sister asked me if i could get Kingdom Hearts for her because she has been interested in the series for some time (i think that her interest comes from the "fan art" of Riku and Sora) so i got the game for her. She couldn't figure out how to get past the screen after choosing the shield, sword and staff.

She was supposed to go to the light to continue, i knew that and waited for her to do that. After a few minutes i told her that she must go to the light and her response was " Oh, no one told me i should do that so how would i know?", i told her that she should have some innate desire to explore.

I don't think kids have been getting dumber because that makes no sense, but i do belive that they have been strongly conditioned to follow orders and being told what they should do. I love my sister and it genuinely broke my heart that she couldn't go past that screen by itself. She also took her sweet time to leave destiny island i think she clocked 2hs to do so.

Have you seen similar things? How was your experience making someone younger play something like Morrowing where you have to read to figure stuff or free exploration with next to no instruction to progress the game?

Often the things that people do that seem dumb, are just because of their expectations. If you put her in an actual room with a light etc. she would have done it. But she probably never played or saw anything like that. She probably played something else that made her expect to wait for something to happen.

You can change her development by introducing her to other games though. You might get her hooked on some other game, The Sims or Civilization or whatever. And even then people miss out on so much if they only find what comes to them. You could introduce her to stuff like STALKER, System Shock, Portal, Halflife, C&C, tycoon games, adventure games, etc. I have young relatives and they don't know anything about gaming. They know only what has been released since about 2020. And Minecraft. That's about it. 100% of what I'd call 'the classics' of gaming, they have never heard of. And there's no point me even talking about it either, they wouldn't understand.