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World of Darkness World of Darkness Unbound - Paradox lets anyone can make and sell VtM games

Roguey

Codex Staff
Staff Member
Sawyerite
Joined
May 29, 2010
Messages
35,660
How so? The entire game you are doing someone else's bidding, knowingly or not, right upon until a few moments before the end (and only if you choose to not side with anyone), also there isn't anything in the game that tells the fledgeling is special in any way.

If there is someone that pawned everyone of power in L.A. in the game, that would certainly be Jack, who is already a pretty powerful and old vampire himself, that basically is responsible for handling in the shadows all the trouble with the sarcophagus (hell, and that might possibly have been all idealized by Caine).

jfZwIPf.jpg

LycgED0.jpg

KtfeuAa.jpg

g8e73Bn.jpg


You are both Super Special and the pawn of even more powerful beings.
 
Joined
Jun 23, 2020
Messages
202
there isn't anything in the game that tells the fledgeling is special in any way

Do listen to Andrei's final conversation one more time.
To me it sounded too vague to make any assumptions besides "the protagonist might be a bit stronger than I presumed at the beginning" (besides he talks about he smell of the blood being greater, and I don't know if there is any other way to make your blood stronger other than through diablerie, but honestly I don't know much of WoD lore so yeah), but anyways, the main point of my argument is that the fledgeling is, through the story, treated as just a pawn that any other vampire could occupy were in his place.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Jun 23, 2020
Messages
202
How so? The entire game you are doing someone else's bidding, knowingly or not, right upon until a few moments before the end (and only if you choose to not side with anyone), also there isn't anything in the game that tells the fledgeling is special in any way.

If there is someone that pawned everyone of power in L.A. in the game, that would certainly be Jack, who is already a pretty powerful and old vampire himself, that basically is responsible for handling in the shadows all the trouble with the sarcophagus (hell, and that might possibly have been all idealized by Caine).

jfZwIPf.jpg
This image is obviously referring to (Smiling) Jack and Caine being behind everything, which leaves so far only what Andrei said as any indication of the fledgeling being special.
 

Roguey

Codex Staff
Staff Member
Sawyerite
Joined
May 29, 2010
Messages
35,660
This image is obviously referring to (Smiling) Jack and Caine being behind everything, which leaves so far only what Andrei said as any indication of the fledgeling being special.

LaCroix can dominate you into following orders every time he speaks to you except the final part, which is a clear indication that your generation has been lowered (by the vampire behind Caine).
 
Joined
Jun 23, 2020
Messages
202
This image is obviously referring to (Smiling) Jack and Caine being behind everything, which leaves so far only what Andrei said as any indication of the fledgeling being special.

LaCroix can dominate you into following orders every time he speaks to you except the final part, which is a clear indication that your generation has been lowered (by the vampire behind Caine).
You mean the vampire behind Jack (which is Caine)?

Otherwise, I think it is a valid assumption, after all I have no idea what the extent of his power would be being the father of all vampires.
 

wishbonetail

Learned
Joined
Oct 18, 2021
Messages
671
Fledgling maybe a pawn but still Caine let him handle all of the major decisions, which made him a wild card. Rigged sarcophagus and fucked Lacroix are the only constants in this pucture. And it is a pretty elaborate plan just to deliver bomb to Lacroix. Camarilla is fucked either way but it seems Caine did not care who inherits LA, anarchs or KweiJin.
 

Saerain

Augur
Patron
Joined
May 27, 2011
Messages
495
... I laugh, but immediately think of what I could do. Anyone up for a shovelhead roguelike? A Nosferatu sewer simulator?
 

Sarkile

Magister
Patron
Joined
Aug 13, 2003
Messages
1,380
shovelhead roguelike is a brilliant idea but probably requiring more effort than this shit deal warrants
I think any effort is more than that deal deserves. If you're capable enough to make a VTM-like game, just make your own version and sell it on Steam. At least then people might buy it.
 

Storyfag

Perfidious Pole
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Messages
15,899
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Stealth Orbital Nuke Control Centre
Rigged sarcophagus and fucked Lacroix are the only constants in this pucture. And it is a pretty elaborate plan just to deliver bomb to Lacroix.

More than that. A grand experiment.

Camarilla is fucked either way but it seems Caine did not care who inherits LA, anarchs or KweiJin.

There is a Camarilla win state. And Caine did care. He was greatly interested in the experiments results.
 

RaggleFraggle

Ask me about VTM
Joined
Mar 23, 2022
Messages
990
This is cool and I'd like to see more B-tier IPs do something similar. Sad that they've sabotaged themselves with two poison pills:
  • You cannot use "Vampire: The Masquerade" or "World of Darkness" in the title.
  • They can terminate the license with 30 days notice at any time for any reason.
Typical for corporate lawyers, they are only thinking about protecting their client, not how to create a contract that entices the less-than-desperate to agree to it. They should have created a new branding moniker and encouraged people to use it.

May as well make your own urban fantasy game with vampires and werewolves, the concept isn't copyrighted.
You don't get to use the VTM trademark in your title, so what's the point? Make your own vampire urban fantasy and you can sell it on Steam and GoG, get all of the revenue (minus what the storefront takes), port it to consoles and mobile if you want, and never have to worry about losing the license cause it's your own setting. You can even pump out sequels if it's successful enough.

Kinda like these:




If this guy took Paradox's offer here and made his games with the official VTM license... but then only got to offer them on itch.io and couldn't even slap VTM into the title... what would he have gained?
Nothing.
This deal is completely worthless.

I really think WRF shot himself in the foot by making his games dungeon crawlers rather than crpgs with interesting characters and plots. It’s probably a budget thing.

In any case, yeah I think we need to break Paradox’s seemingly monopoly on urban fantasy and promote other IPs. Preferably ones that aren’t woke. It’s really disheartening to me when nobody is interested in making urban fantasy unless it’s fanfic for Paradox’s IP. I am up to my ears in cyberpunk games, but outside of Paradox IP the urban fantasy genre is a desert. There’s Shadowrun and Vampyr, but nothing else I could find. I can’t think of any solid reasons for why that is beyond coincidence.

I have some ideas for urban fantasy games myself (although it’s a lot easier to do if I had other people to bounce ideas off), but I don’t have any game design skills and I’m already locked into a career path that doesn’t require them. At most I could try writing short stories, maybe a novel or two. Le sigh
 

RaggleFraggle

Ask me about VTM
Joined
Mar 23, 2022
Messages
990
So they’re trying to turn World of Darkness into a crude substitute for Chronicles of Darkness, rather than use Chronicles of Darkness or do another reboot with the benefit of hindsight? I actually liked Chronicles of Darkness once upon a time and it pisses me off that Paradox threw it in the trash because “lol nostalgia” while ripping off the premise anyway. Fuck Paradox and fuck their IP. We’re better off making our own IPs and that’s what I intend to do.
 
Joined
Dec 28, 2021
Messages
202
So they’re trying to turn World of Darkness into a crude substitute for Chronicles of Darkness, rather than use Chronicles of Darkness or do another reboot with the benefit of hindsight? I actually liked Chronicles of Darkness once upon a time and it pisses me off that Paradox threw it in the trash because “lol nostalgia” while ripping off the premise anyway. Fuck Paradox and fuck their IP. We’re better off making our own IPs and that’s what I intend to do.

Paradox are trying to desperately justify purchasing this IP but time and time again, they've proven they really have no idea what they're doing and what they even want from it. You can see how in the realm of video games, it was literally all centered around Bloodlines 2 with the other games providing supplementary goodies that expanded the brand. You'd go in with Bloodlines 2, and while Paradox ordered some overpriced DLC and expansion packs to be developed, you'd get to experience that shit Werewolf game, or the Wraith VR game no one gives a fuck about, and then when you were done playing frenchjank VTM Telltale, hop on fucking VTM battle royale but now all that garbage has to do the heavylifting. They don't even mention anything about World of Darkness anymore. It's like they're ashamed of it. Can't blame them when the people who run that shit are the most annoying people ever.

At least Night Road and Parliament of Knives were good but when you're Paradox you don't want text games and visual novels.
 

RaggleFraggle

Ask me about VTM
Joined
Mar 23, 2022
Messages
990
If you are a developer considering this, please do not do it. Just make your own urban-fantasy setting and scratch the serial numbers off.
“Scratch the serial numbers off” makes it sound like you’re copying the IP and only changing the names. I don’t think that’s remotely necessary. I think you can do a lot better by making your own setting from scratch rather than trying to carefully rehash Paradox’s IP while trying not to get sued. You can even use similar ideas by drawing on public domain resources, while still doing something unique with them.

Bloodlust: Shadowhunter and Red Embrace: Hollywood are examples. (Not great examples but they’re the only ones I can find because the genre’s a desert.)
 

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