What is the ideal RPG structure to you?

[Dyspaire]

Icewind Dale.

 

[Faarbaute]

Im not gonna lie, I was hoping for more unhinged manifesto-style posts to compare notes with but this is also fine.

 

[Late Bloomer]

Im not gonna lie, I was hoping for more unhinged manifesto-style posts to compare notes with but this is also fine.

Gotcha

My ideal RPG structure is giving the player as much of an open-ended world to live in as possible. Sights and sounds to behold. Exploration and adventure to be had.

I do my best roleplaying out in the open, in a cave, a dungeon, fighting a lone vampire or half a dozen skeletons. I prefer the world around me to instill a sense of adventure, of wonder, to ping a spot in my soul that craves exploration, to map out hidden recesses, to find a treasure chest, to learn about the world around me. I like my stories told via the lands. A broken down wagon that has been ransacked, on the side of the road with its less valuable contents scattered about. To peer in close and find an interesting spell tome the bandits didnt notice. To rest at the local inn. Have a cup of mead and observe the townsfolk. Get a nights rest and wake up to a new day. Watch the sun rise and marvel at the amount of adventure that awaits me. Narration told via the environment of importance to me.

Alone is many times my preferred way of roleplaying. Although, if the companion(s) is right for me and my character then that is most welcome. I prefer the companion to say little to nothing at all. Imagining the coversations we have around the campfire at night, as we spelunk a hidden cave, as we explore a dilapidated tower lost to memory, are far more interesting that any dialogue a mod author or some game dev who has no idea what the player character is thinking, can come up with. An occasional snippet of dialogue that is aware of our surroundings or the goings on of the local town is fine. But inevitably, that dialogue repeats and grows tiresome.

I find coversation with NPC's, while stimulating at times, mostly contrived and limiting. Most of the times the dialogue is not to my liking. And if I was truly roleplaying, the dialgue options to choose from, more often than not, are not the choices I am interested in. Amounting to not much more than a choose your own adventure book. Turn to page 92.

I can't express the need for good sound enough. Footsteps crunching on leaves, the odd sound in a marsh, the crackling of the fire, winds howling in the night, the river rushing past. The quality of said audio is of importance as well. Nostalgic midi is also ok. Music, while not quite as important to me, is most welcome. If the soundtrack is shit you can turn it off. But if the sounds are bad, that can ruin an experience. The people working audio are the unsung heroes of game development in many ways.

Overall, I like my imagination to be sparked. To bring out emotions and thoughts, stories and memories. I dont need the game to tell me what to think. I need the game to give me a world to spend time in. For my own stories to be told.

 

[Jason Liang]

Combat -> sexing up hot bitches -> more combat.

**chef's kiss gameplay loop** Add some good writing and progression mechanics somewhere in there.

Alicesoft is way ahead of you bro

 

[Darth Canoli]

My ideal RPG structure for example is that of a gauntlet or a series of gauntlets.

In other words, overcomming a series of challenges. Be they combat, puzzles, riddles or what have you. And seeing as we're talking about RPGs here - through the development of your character or characters.

This necessarily influnces my opinion on most things to do with RPGs and games in general. Things like level scaling, immersion, RTWP vs TB, world design, single vs multiplayer, narrative and so on make more or less sense and could be more or less motivated in the broader context of your idea of what an RPG ideally should be like.

For example, my opinion is that narrative, as it exists outside of player agency, should primarily serve to frame and give context to your actions, to motivate and to propell you towards new challenges. It should not necessarily exist to tell a story in and of itself.

Now this might sound stupid if you're of the opinion that RPGs are about something different entirely. But it makes sense in the context of my idea of RPGs. Mind you, it dosen't have to be as all or nothing as I paint it here, that is for illustrative purposes.

So, what is the ideal RPG structure to you and what is it all about? Is it about creating worlds and submerging yourself into a narrative? Is it all about choice and consequence? Is it art? Is it about the human condition? Are RPGs evolving towards something?

Brutal difficulty, no saving, endless dying and restarting

You both should run and grab KotC 2: Augury of chaos before the stores runs out.
It's exactly what you're looking for.

As for me, it's easier to give some examples as it has almost already been done:
- Prelude to Darkness (PtD) with a better bestiary and encounter design.
- Dark Sun in KotC 2 engine with very challenging encounters, no random encounters, more handcrafted ones.
- Fallout 1 & 2 with handcrafted encounters.
- PST, Turn-Based in ToEE/KotC 2 engine with challenging handcrafted encounters.
- Colony Ship

If it's a blobber:
- Wizardry 8 with a bigger world and 4/5 more dungeons like the monastery covering various level range.
- Might & Magic III with great sound effects.
- Wizardry 7 in Wizardry 8 engine or at least Wiz 7 refreshed engine to improve the UI and remove some weird features (ability loss on level up, drowning in fountains)

What matters the most is the system, Turn-Based and party based, good mechanism, great encounter design and varied bestiary, high difficulty.
Then comes the quest design, the settings, the originality of the bestiary and encounters, open world is better or semi open world.

I don't care much about the narrative, I prefer if there is one with some scripted events (NO 3D unskippable cut-scenes though) if it's good enough, like the encounters with the Dark Savant in Wizardry 8 or the tower early invasion in KotC and Torburry's events in KotC, PtD events in the Barrier...

 

[luj1]

I thought this might be an interesting topic to discuss as it naturally influences your opinion on a variety of other topics that get discussed here on a daily basis.

My ideal RPG structure for example is that of a gauntlet or a series of gauntlets.

In other words, overcomming a series of challenges. Be they combat, puzzles, riddles or what have you. And seeing as we're talking about RPGs here - through the development of your character or characters.

This necessarily influnces my opinion on most things to do with RPGs and games in general. Things like level scaling, immersion, RTWP vs TB, world design, single vs multiplayer, narrative and so on make more or less sense and could be more or less motivated in the broader context of your idea of what an RPG ideally should be like.

For example, my opinion is that narrative, as it exists outside of player agency, should primarily serve to frame and give context to your actions, to motivate and to propell you towards new challenges. It should not necessarily exist to tell a story in and of itself.

Now this might sound stupid if you're of the opinion that RPGs are about something different entirely. But it makes sense in the context of my idea of RPGs. Mind you, it dosen't have to be as all or nothing as I paint it here, that is for illustrative purposes.

So, what is the ideal RPG structure to you and what is it all about? Is it about creating worlds and submerging yourself into a narrative? Is it all about choice and consequence? Is it art? Is it about the human condition? Are RPGs evolving towards something?

Be as specific as you like.

I like freeform design, go anywhere, off the boat, do anything

such as Morrowind, Kenshi, Gothic, Stalker, etc.

 

[Ysaye]

Im not gonna lie, I was hoping for more unhinged manifesto-style posts to compare notes with but this is also fine.

Gotcha

My ideal RPG structure is giving the player as much of an open-ended world to live in as possible. Sights and sounds to behold. Exploration and adventure to be had.

I do my best roleplaying out in the open, in a cave, a dungeon, fighting a lone vampire or half a dozen skeletons. I prefer the world around me to instill a sense of adventure, of wonder, to ping a spot in my soul that craves exploration, to map out hidden recesses, to find a treasure chest, to learn about the world around me. I like my stories told via the lands. A broken down wagon that has been ransacked, on the side of the road with its less valuable contents scattered about. To peer in close and find an interesting spell tome the bandits didnt notice. To rest at the local inn. Have a cup of mead and observe the townsfolk. Get a nights rest and wake up to a new day. Watch the sun rise and marvel at the amount of adventure that awaits me. Narration told via the environment of importance to me.

Alone is many times my preferred way of roleplaying. Although, if the companion(s) is right for me and my character then that is most welcome. I prefer the companion to say little to nothing at all. Imagining the coversations we have around the campfire at night, as we spelunk a hidden cave, as we explore a dilapidated tower lost to memory, are far more interesting that any dialogue a mod author or some game dev who has no idea what the player character is thinking, can come up with. An occasional snippet of dialogue that is aware of our surroundings or the goings on of the local town is fine. But inevitably, that dialogue repeats and grows tiresome.

I find coversation with NPC's, while stimulating at times, mostly contrived and limiting. Most of the times the dialogue is not to my liking. And if I was truly roleplaying, the dialgue options to choose from, more often than not, are not the choices I am interested in. Amounting to not much more than a choose your own adventure book. Turn to page 92.

I can't express the need for good sound enough. Footsteps crunching on leaves, the odd sound in a marsh, the crackling of the fire, winds howling in the night, the river rushing past. The quality of said audio is of importance as well. Nostalgic midi is also ok. Music, while not quite as important to me, is most welcome. If the soundtrack is shit you can turn it off. But if the sounds are bad, that can ruin an experience. The people working audio are the unsung heroes of game development in many ways.

Overall, I like my imagination to be sparked. To bring out emotions and thoughts, stories and memories. I dont need the game to tell me what to think. I need the game to give me a world to spend time in. For my own stories to be told.

Sounds like a prospective Elden Ring fan.

 

[Faarbaute]

You both should run and grab KotC 2: Augury of chaos before the stores runs out.
It's exactly what you're looking for.

I very mutch look forward to playing it. I've been following it's relevant thread on and off, waiting for all bugs and stuff to be hammered out before I take the plunge.

 

[Faarbaute]

Im not gonna lie, I was hoping for more unhinged manifesto-style posts to compare notes with but this is also fine.

Gotcha

My ideal RPG structure is giving the player as much of an open-ended world to live in as possible. Sights and sounds to behold. Exploration and adventure to be had.

I do my best roleplaying out in the open, in a cave, a dungeon, fighting a lone vampire or half a dozen skeletons. I prefer the world around me to instill a sense of adventure, of wonder, to ping a spot in my soul that craves exploration, to map out hidden recesses, to find a treasure chest, to learn about the world around me. I like my stories told via the lands. A broken down wagon that has been ransacked, on the side of the road with its less valuable contents scattered about. To peer in close and find an interesting spell tome the bandits didnt notice. To rest at the local inn. Have a cup of mead and observe the townsfolk. Get a nights rest and wake up to a new day. Watch the sun rise and marvel at the amount of adventure that awaits me. Narration told via the environment of importance to me.

Alone is many times my preferred way of roleplaying. Although, if the companion(s) is right for me and my character then that is most welcome. I prefer the companion to say little to nothing at all. Imagining the coversations we have around the campfire at night, as we spelunk a hidden cave, as we explore a dilapidated tower lost to memory, are far more interesting that any dialogue a mod author or some game dev who has no idea what the player character is thinking, can come up with. An occasional snippet of dialogue that is aware of our surroundings or the goings on of the local town is fine. But inevitably, that dialogue repeats and grows tiresome.

I find coversation with NPC's, while stimulating at times, mostly contrived and limiting. Most of the times the dialogue is not to my liking. And if I was truly roleplaying, the dialgue options to choose from, more often than not, are not the choices I am interested in. Amounting to not much more than a choose your own adventure book. Turn to page 92.

I can't express the need for good sound enough. Footsteps crunching on leaves, the odd sound in a marsh, the crackling of the fire, winds howling in the night, the river rushing past. The quality of said audio is of importance as well. Nostalgic midi is also ok. Music, while not quite as important to me, is most welcome. If the soundtrack is shit you can turn it off. But if the sounds are bad, that can ruin an experience. The people working audio are the unsung heroes of game development in many ways.

Overall, I like my imagination to be sparked. To bring out emotions and thoughts, stories and memories. I dont need the game to tell me what to think. I need the game to give me a world to spend time in. For my own stories to be told.

That's more like it!

 

[Faarbaute]

And the feet are the best part about any RPG

My favorite structure for an RPG is an open goal-based structure like Fallout 1. The Vault Overseer tells you to get a water chip, then you're released into the wild and gotta find it. How you do it is up to you. You have to gather the clues all by yourself and you can approach the objective in any way. There's no rigid line going from Quest A -> Quest B -> Quest C, all the main quest cares about is that you get a water chip and it's completely acceptable to break the intended sequence.

Let's take your classic "defeat the evil overlord" scenario many RPGs have. A lot of them force you into a linear sequence of main quests where you first have to contact the rebellion, then you have to meet a contact who knows the location of the overlord's lair, then you have to deliver crates of weapons to the rebels, then you can start the final battle. But if you discover the overlord's lair on your own while exploring, you can't go back to the rebellion and tell them about it - you have to do the quest where you meet the contact. That's rigid and linear and I don't like it. A proper RPG should only give you the goal of defeating the overlord, and if you want you can just explore on your own, find the lair, and attack the boss. You will likely die without preparation, but you can try. Any steps between would be optional, and there would always be multiple ways to achieve your goals.

Wanna find the location of the overlord's lair? Talk to people who might know it, explore for yourself, try to find a map that shows it.
Want support in the fight against the evil overlord? Contact the rebellion and help them, or hire mercenaries with your gold, or even discover an ancient ruin filled with techno-magical golems you can command.

The game never tells you exactly what to do and where to go, you have to figure that out by yourself. No handholding, no forced linear sequences of quests. Just overarching goals and a handful of tools to help you achieve them. This also makes it easier to include failure states that don't force you to reload: if you fail a quest or piss off a faction to the point it will never deal with you ever again, you have enough alternative approaches to take the failure and move on.

Also, the world would be 100% hand-crafted and nothing would scale to the player or be procedurally generated. All the dungeons, enemies, unique items etc are always found in the same location. It's a real world that can be explored in detail, its secrets uncovered bit by bit.

I like this aproach aswell. Although, seeing as im more of a structured structure guy I can't help but to prefer if it's done piecemeal or atleast structured in acts.

I also feel like it's way harder to pull off.

 

[anvi]

I could talk more but it would mostly be about EQ which is still ideal to me in a lot of ways.

 

[Late Bloomer]

I could talk more but it would mostly be about EQ which is still ideal to me in a lot of ways.

Please do.

 

[Absinthe]

It seems Faurbaute's preferred structure of RPG seems to be mostly about dungeoncrawling, hack-n-slash, etc.

I don't really have a specific structure that I require RPGs to follow. Mostly I want choice & consequence, combat that is properly difficult, optionality in how you go about pursuing your objectives, more non-linear levels, more exploration, and a system of character-building that actually has consequences for how you interact with the gameworld instead of it being 90% combat where the gameworld is thoroughly apathetic to how you handled combat, and the remaining 10% of noncombat build options is like 1 or 2 dialogue skills everyone'll obviously max out.