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In-game advertising

JarlFrank

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Viable source of income (especially for indies who're not exactly swimming in money and need every buck) or piece of shit retarded crap fag idea that ruins the atmosphere?

I think it can be used well in the right setting. Anything that is playing in the modern world and in a city can make good use of in-game adverts (VtM:Bloodlines, GTA, Sims). The real world does have adverts, and so should your game if it's set in a modern city. So why not use real adverts instead of invented fantasy products? It wouldn't hurt immersion - might even increase immersion, actually.

So what does the Codex think? Good idea or not?
 

Alex

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Tongue in cheek fantasy settings also could use it, and science fiction might have the ad about a "vintage" item. I am not against, but I think it should be done on a case by case basis, not simply by inserting the ad in the game from a random list like websites do. This way you might also make sure the ad is compatible with the art style of the game.
 

Unkillable Cat

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It depends on how it's implemented.

Zool was sponsored by Chupa Chups, and their products could be seen all over the place as Zool jumped over enourmous lollipops.

Space Quest 5 used advertising as an in-joke by having the Sprint logo appear at the end of every space communiqué.

Where billboards do not appear as being out-of-place within the game world, I think it's perfectly justifiable to have them use real-life adverts on those billboards. Having your headshot rewarded with a "Cool as Pepsi!" soundbyte is NOT a good way to advertise.
 

Antihero

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Unkillable Cat said:
It depends on how it's implemented.

Zool was sponsored by Chupa Chups, and their products could be seen all over the place as Zool jumped over enourmous lollipops.

Space Quest 5 used advertising as an in-joke by having the Sprint logo appear at the end of every space communiqué.

Where billboards do not appear as being out-of-place within the game world, I think it's perfectly justifiable to have them use real-life adverts on those billboards. Having your headshot rewarded with a "Cool as Pepsi!" soundbyte is NOT a good way to advertise.
One problem is when you don't have many advertisers lined up (even on some ad-network) and all your billboards are the same or a slight variation, which is an even bigger eye-sore. (I suppose one way to mitigate that is to mix in some fake ads for variety.) But I've seen that in games like ETQW, which I ad blocked after a while since I couldn't stand it anymore. I don't mind as much for something that's completely ad supported (it's my choice not to play), but not if I already paid good money for it upfront.

It breaks "immersion" since you play games partially to escape, not to be reminded of the crap that's advertised everywhere else in the world and do your best to ignore. If there are going to be billboards, they'd better have something to the with the gameworld, or just be something lulzy in general. Put real ads in the game and then I start ignoring parts of the gameworld, instead of exploring it as much, and resent it.
 

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JarlFrank said:
Viable source of income (especially for indies who're not exactly swimming in money and need every buck) or piece of shit retarded crap fag idea that ruins the atmosphere?

I think it can be used well in the right setting. Anything that is playing in the modern world and in a city can make good use of in-game adverts (VtM:Bloodlines, GTA, Sims). The real world does have adverts, and so should your game if it's set in a modern city. So why not use real adverts instead of invented fantasy products? It wouldn't hurt immersion - might even increase immersion, actually.

So what does the Codex think? Good idea or not?
It's certainly an idea one should be cautious with. Billboards would work in the right setting (modern, for some products even futuristic - Frontier had billboards, for example, and I wouldn't feel terribly violated finding a Pepsi ads on some of them, as people would still need something to drink even in a year >3k. In fantasy it's almost completely impossible to have anything resembling an ad of a modern product, unless in a very veiled, tongue in the cheat and extremely stealthy manner - an easter egg of sorts. This might actually prove quite effective, despite reaching relatively few players initialy, as seeking easter eggs is surprisingly popular, of course, it would have to not be lame.

Now the problem is that it's extremely easy to go full retard with in-game ads, and even a single intrusive ad would suffice to make an otherwise decent game an obnoxious, unplayable shit.
 
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I'd rather see the use of promotional items as done in movies, than actual ads. If you know that you're going to be featuring a soft drink and a car in a particular scene, get some soft drink company and vehicle manufacturer to pay you to use their products instead of making up names for them. Almost all films do it - there's going to be SOME scene in any film where you're doing a car chase, or someone's drinking a soft drink, or checking their stylish-looking watch, or similar, so if selected appropriately it doesn't cheapen the film.

That could easily be done in games. Deus Ex has soft drink and vending machines everywhere - Coke can pay for them to be called 'Coca-cola Eclypse'. FO2 could have done exactly what Mad Max 2 did, and get a General Motors to kick in some cash by making the 'old car that characters comment on as being awesome' a Holden. I could tolerate that - just using items where they are supposed to be anyway, except using real names. If anything, it helps the game by allowing it to use the 'real' names of the products featured in the game, rather than having to make up names to avoid breaching IP.
 

Antihero

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Azrael the cat said:
I'd rather see the use of promotional items as done in movies, than actual ads. If you know that you're going to be featuring a soft drink and a car in a particular scene, get some soft drink company and vehicle manufacturer to pay you to use their products instead of making up names for them. Almost all films do it - there's going to be SOME scene in any film where you're doing a car chase, or someone's drinking a soft drink, or checking their stylish-looking watch, or similar, so if selected appropriately it doesn't cheapen the film.
That might be something if it's low key, but it's still kind of cheap and if you're an indie you're not going to get paid the big bucks for it (for an obscure reference in a likely obscure game). Anyway, didn't FEAR have Dell XPS ads as screen savers on office computers? Even if it didn't, something not completely in your face like that.

Vending machines plastered with the Coke symbol would be too much, but less so if it were maybe one of the selection bars on the machine. Take VTM:B: I'd rather see something weird like this: http://aloysius.soder-shef.org/wp-conte ... onseed.jpg than it completely defiled with ads (safe for work - just didn't want to spam with a larger image). Then again, some companies might be touchy about logo placement and associations, and all that.
 

Alex

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Antihero said:
(...snip) but it's still kind of cheap and if you're an indie you're not going to get paid the big bucks for it (for an obscure reference in a likely obscure game). (snip..)

I think this is an important practical problem of the idea. Big companies (heck, even medium sized ones) aren't likely to agree to their products being show in some work that doesn't follow some kind of strict rules, in order to make sure their brand doesn't become devalued. I wouldn't be surprised if you not only needed to actually pay Coca Cola to use its brand name, but also it required the right of greenlight anything you do in your game.
 
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JarlFrank said:
or piece of shit retarded crap fag idea that ruins the atmosphere?
This. Judge Dredd and Ghost in the Shell/Manga something in Syndicate Wars weren't bad, though - it was basically an AD exchange between companies doing similar stuff, not typical advertising that would be in games.
 

DwarvenFood

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I really enjoyed it when ads appeared in the NFS franchise, in my opinion it added to immersion.

What always strikes me is that you cannot just use real car names as you can see in the GTA series. I heard it was because the manufacturers do not want mangled and burnt out models of their cars. I always thought the idea of having real car names would add brand value instead of devalue it.

But how cool would it be to have a hostage situation in SWAT4 taking place inside a KFC hehe..
 

JarlFrank

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To everyone who says it's inaccpetable in fantasy or historical settings:
That's what I said in my first post, too. In-game ads are only okay if they're used in a setting that plays in our modern (or a future scifi version of our) world. In a fantasy setting that is medieval in technology and not in any way connected to our real world, it would just be utterly stupid.

The idea of just having some products introduced sounds kinda good. Like cars or other items that would be in the game anyway. Then again, yes, it's always a question if the company wants their product to be used in the way you want to use it in the game (cars in GTA being used to drive over pedestrians and being destroyed by driving at other cars).
 

7hm

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Yeesh said:
Frankly, at this point I don't begrudge devs anything that keeps them making PC games.

Pretty much this. If it keeps them making good RPGs (or good games) I can ignore a couple out of place ads.
 

Shemar

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Like the majority in this thread, I am somewhere in the middle between "I don't begrudge devs anything that keeps them making PC games" and "piece of shit retarded crap fag idea that ruins the atmosphere". As long as ads do not interfere with the game's function or atmosphere, I don't mind them.
 
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- Ads in a game where that product can realistically be explained to exist in the setting, this is acceptable, potentially even an opportunity to increase the degree of believability and robustness of the world.

- Ads in a game where that product cannot be explained within the world in a plausible way will not only totally rot that game from the inside slowly, but bring the entire industry even closer to popular acceptance of these monstrosities in games.

Money is always an important motivating factor, especially for those with a lack of, but to me the most important consideration should be the demands being made by the owners of the products being advertised. If they think they can change mechanics or alter the presentation of the game in a way that results in the game somehow working around the presence of the advertising, then I would completely disagree with its inclusion. Acquire your funding elsewhere, and do not become a precedent for inevitable further decline.

One day I expect this to happen, and I dread that day like I dread the future of mainstream RPGs.

Oh and to give some perspective on my stance - the DLC advertisement in DA about that golem guy for me crossed that line even though it was their own product and an addition to the game. It was still advertising, and it was not done in the interest of the game. You have no respect for your own art you hacks.
 
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Oh. I forgot one detail. Ads are evil. I hate them. Especially after two years of marketing and psychology of advertisement classes.
 

Phelot

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I would like them better if it's a prearranged deal and not some online shit where the ads are loaded from some server i.e. real billboards.

I just fear that it could get over the top. I mean, we've got US schools that have ads in them, there are ads all over the place, do we need them bombarding us in game? Not to mention the trend for devs to do ANYTHING that makes money to death.
 

DriacKin

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piece of shit retarded crap fag idea that ruins the atmosphere

I've never seen a game where it doesn't hurt the atmosphere. Even if they integrate the ads/product placement into the game, it still always pisses me off when every single in-game pc has a 'Dell' logo, or every single soda bottle has a 'Pepsi', etc...
If anything, this type of ad pisses me off even more.
 

SCO

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Adblock for games :smug:

Let the peasants be mind programmed.
 

Krice

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If you don't like ads in games don't buy games that have them. I think they could be a nice way to support creative game development with more esoteric game genres I guess. But then again, how can you get advertising for that kind of games?
 

spectre

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I abhorr ads and advertising with every fibre of my being. I realize it's an uphill battle, but still. If it has ads, I will go out of my way to block them. If I can't, I'll find an alternative bit of software.
If it stands out as blatant advertising, if it interrupts my session in any way, it will be to the detriment of your game and the thing being advertised.
But that doesn't make for a productive discussion, does it?

If I buy a product, there is an unspoken understanding that you've gotten paid your due and trying to mooch off more cash is bad form.
So if you want to base your revenue on ads, a good start is to make it free to play.

And it can work, or so it seems, with all the cosmetic item shops, etc. Not sure about their profits, but I think Path of Exile
gets a decent money stream by advertising its in-game merch and cosmetics.

There's also the pay to win route, but the less said about it, the better.

I think the point is in breaking immerision and interrupting the game. Self-advertising is the lesser of two evils,
seeing missing content with direct links to store always irks me. I can stand these things in the launcher, somewhere in the main menu perhaps,
but the "in-game" should be sacrosanct, untarnished by the filth of real-world currency. Sure, it's probably more effective,
consumer-oriented and leads to impulse buys, and whatever bullshit terms you want to paint it with.

In full realization of the slippery slope, here's what I would find tolerable:
Product placement. If it's a car game, it makes sense to have licensed stuff. If it has guns, let's have a glock instead of klock or whatever.
If it's a hunter simulation, makes sense to have products by real world companies. If you're riding bikes, let's have real ones.
These doesn't bother me, and might even add to the game. Guess I've fallen prey to the subliminal jude-hexen.

If it's set in the real world, it's probably going to have billboards and whatnots, as long as they're sorta there in the background.
Sure, I'll roll my eyes if I'd ever see a coca cola or snickers poster in-game, but if it is reasonably integrated, preferably tongue-in-cheek,
I might live with that.

So this is the real world and sims. How about fantasy stuff? The genre is immediately worse off because pretty much everything from real life will (or should) stand out,
unless you're aiming for a zany, tongue-in-cheek, theme park experience. A way out would be to become part of an IP, warhammer, D&D, Magic the Gathering,
Marvel,etc.. Unfortunately, the reality is these franchises will want you to pay for the dubious privilege of doing their advertising for them and will most likely enforce
some guidelines to, uh, channel your creative energies the right way.

It's a bit of a paradox, who is really advertising who, but from the developer's standpoint, if it nets your game some extra exposure, that's a win.
If you actually enjoy the franchise, another win.

Another angle is to have your own merchandising, setup a store and let people buy shit connected to your game - miniatures, mugs, t-shirts, jewelerry, boardgames, cardgames.
For a bit more blatant advertising, you might link in-game challenges to redeemable vouchers. So you defeated Sarevok huh? How about a 5% discount on the guy's funko pop in our store.
As long as supplies last.
Yeah, I feel all dirty just typing it up. Still, that's basically setting up a separate business with its own production lines, so I'm not sure a small studio will have the resources (or stomach) for it.
 

Delterius

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Neonate before you go: here's the keys to your new apartment. The computer inside comes with a 3 month subscription to Nord VPN and Raid Shadow Legends pre-installed. Yes I know I'm spoiling you.
 

JarlFrank

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This thread aged badly. How could I have known back then that "ads in games" would become a reality, but in a much much different way than I imagined?

My idea was billboards in something like a GTA game showing real world ads, because that makes sense. Big cities have billboards with ads on them. A game set in a modern real world city can have real companies pay money to be featured on in-game billboards. Simple. Easy. Doesn't hurt the game.

But the truth... oh god, the truth is so much worse... so, so much worse...
 

Dorateen

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Somewhat tangential, but one of the underlying themes of Grimoire is how deceptive marketing ads duped the Winged Exemplar, not once but twice.

grimoire-havoc-seed.png
 

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