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Why do you pay for abandonware?

Joined
Jan 14, 2018
Messages
50,754
Codex Year of the Donut
If only we were required to pay for things merely to those people or companies who "deserve the money", based on our subjective take
Yes, that's what I already do. Problem?
That's not how the law works
Following a law that has been written and repeatedly rewritten by multi-billion dollar corporations for their own benefit is serf mentality.
so "the original developers aren't getting my money now
Yeah, how dare someone want to reward effort instead of rent-seeking behavior.
If you want to be taken seriously, you have the option of boycotting a company's products by not buying them and avoiding them completely. Now that would actually stand for something.
Taken seriously for... What?
I want to perform a basic business transaction, not be extorted by companies benefiting from arbitrary government monopolies.


By the way, have you contacted the IP owners of all the profile pictures on the codex and asked for their permission to reproduce their work here or are you ....breaking the law?
 

Taluntain

Most Frabjous
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I want to perform a basic business transaction, not be extorted by companies benefiting from arbitrary government monopolies.

Nobody's extorting you. You have the choice to buy their products or not. You simply want to have your cake and eat it too, which you try to justify with a weak excuse that only really works from your personal POV. If you were an owner of an IP via, say, inheritance, I'm pretty sure that you'd be singing a different tune about your rent being stolen by pirates.

By the way, have you contacted the IP owners of all the profile pictures on the codex and asked for their permission to reproduce their work here or are you ....breaking the law?

Using someone's artwork without their permission is technically illegal, but naturally it depends on the circumstances of how the artwork is used, where it comes from, under what terms/conditions was the artwork commissioned and sold as a video game asset and so on. We don't really know, so we work on the assumption that whoever owns the rights to the artwork is OK with it being used on various forums as it serves to promote the games it comes from. But naturally, if any artist (or whoever owns the rights to the art) mailed us and presented evidence that they own the artwork in question and have the final say in how it is used themselves and that they don't want to see it used on the forums here, we'd take it down. No doubt about that.
 

ERYFKRAD

Barbarian
Patron
Joined
Sep 25, 2012
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Strap Yourselves In Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
But naturally, if any artist (or whoever owns the rights to the art) mailed us and presented evidence that they own the artwork in question and have the final say in how it is used themselves and that they don't want to see it used on the forums here, we'd take it down. No doubt about that.
You have some nerve thinking you can use my graphics.
 
Joined
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Messages
50,754
Codex Year of the Donut
Nobody's extorting you.
Except the multi-billion dollar corporations writing laws for their own benefit, sure, why not. Something tells me that if I go look into who lobbied for these copyright extension laws, I'd most likely find corporations like Hasbro(Dungeons & Dragons -- Goldbox games) on that list. Using your wealth and connections to get the government to threaten me with fines or prison time if I don't give them money sure sounds like extortion to me anyways.
You have the choice to buy their products or not.
Yep.
You simply want to have your cake and eat it too
What's the point of having cake and not eating it?
which you try to justify with a weak excuse that only really works from your personal POV
The most important POV.
If you were an owner of an IP via, say, inheritance, I'm pretty sure that you'd be singing a different tune about your rent being stolen by pirates.
I'm aware that the original intention of copyright was a vehicle for social benefit not personal enrichment via an effectively perpetual monopoly, so, no.


Using someone's artwork without their permission is technically illegal,
Ah, suddenly copyright infringement is different now. Something something your personal POV, right?
We don't really know, so we work on the assumption that whoever owns the rights to the artwork is OK with it being used on various forums as it serves to promote the games it comes from.
Ignorance of the law is not a valid defense.
 

Taluntain

Most Frabjous
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It's not ignorance of the law, we're quite clear on that. Merely guesswork as to the benevolence of the artwork holder rights' intentions. Since forums in general aren't getting artwork takedown requests on anywhere near regular basis, we all operate under the assumption that the IP holders are ok with the kind of usage of their art that is common on internet forums. As I already mentioned.
 

A horse of course

Guest
But what about games where no one even knows who owns the IP? Where's the issue when nobody can lay claim to what has allegedly been stolen? Does that just not matter?

It's basic quantum mechanics.
One can't know the owner before one sells it. By selling it the wave function collapses, producing a shoal of corporate lawyers.

I believe Take2 were quoted as saying regarding the Oni rights something like : "We can't licence it to you because we're not sure which licence holder fully owns the publishing rights, but we can't guarantee we won't sue you if the other possible licence holder licences it out to you"
 

Ismaul

Thought Criminal #3333
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Codex 2014 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech A Beautifully Desolate Campaign My team has the sexiest and deadliest waifus you can recruit.
It's not piracy if you're participating in the preservation of classic games for future generations.

Every bit downloaded is a service to humanity. :salute:
 

Bad Sector

Arcane
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Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Codex Year of the Donut Codex+ Now Streaming! Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Sure, but what I meant is that you don't have to wait for a game to be sold to play it. So to me there's not real reason to say "finally!", since the option to play the game was always there. If you cared that much, you would have played it already.

Ah yeah i agree with that.

Is this actually legally true? How can you steal something that no one is charging for in the first place?

But what about games where no one even knows who owns the IP? Where's the issue when nobody can lay claim to what has allegedly been stolen? Does that just not matter?

Well, technically what happens isn't "stealing", it is copyright infringement and if something is sold or not is irrelevant - for example all open source licenses rely on copyrights to work despite the software pretty much always being available for free. So even if a game isn't sold anymore, someone somewhere still owns the IP.

Also another important thing to keep in mind is that not everyone can come after you (specifically sue you for infringing some copyrights) - only the copyright holder(s) (and those who represent them) can do that. When it comes to abandonware, the software has been practically "abandoned" ie. the copyright holders do not care about it anymore. This doesn't give you any rights towards that software (so from the perspective of copyright laws you'd be in the wrong to copy/download it), but in practice since the copyright holders give zero cares about it, the chances of them coming after you are also practically zero. Even more for the cases where "no one even knows who owns the IP".

With that in mind, when someone decides to put a game on GOG they have some form of ownership or at least be in a position to go after copyright infringement.
 

El Presidente

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It's finally as in "finally I can just click install and play" and not "finally I can play this previously unavailable game". People pay for convenience.

(the deal begins to make less sense when the port quality is shit and you still have to jump through hoops, sure)
Pretty much this, I don't give a fuck about the law, when I grab retro games on GOG I do it for my own convenience. I'm old, I don't have enough spare time, if it isn't a system's fullset of roms I don't wanna torrent it, let alone find cracks, deal with potential malware, etc. Fuck that, I'm not 16 anymore, give me the game for 4.99 on a sale, vast majority also already comes with dosbox/scummvm properly set out of the box. That money is not for the original devs, it's for my precious time. Gabe's famous quote is absolutely correct, piracy is a service problem (and a jobless teenager thing).
 

racofer

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Discussing something bad that GOG did gets all posts moved into a new thread.

Arguing about the merits of piracy keeps going for pages upon pages without any issues, though.
 

A horse of course

Guest
Discussing something bad that GOG did gets all posts moved into a new thread.

Arguing about the merits of piracy keeps going for pages upon pages without any issues, though.

Jannies let me link directly to cracked h-games in shoutbox, they have zero respect for artists.
 

Raghar

Arcane
Vatnik
Joined
Jul 16, 2009
Messages
22,500
Discussing something bad that GOG did gets all posts moved into a new thread.

Arguing about the merits of piracy keeps going for pages upon pages without any issues, though.

Jannies let me link directly to cracked h-games in shoutbox, they have zero respect for artists.
Artists wants theirs work to be used. Not laid down with some price tag and kept forever as a merchandise.
 

Glop_dweller

Prophet
Joined
Sep 29, 2007
Messages
1,161
Is abandonware piracy?
Of course it is; for (at least) two simple reasons.
  1. No one is entitled to another person's work, period, unless it is sold, given, or traded to them by (and with consent of) the author(s) or their authorized agents. If I spend my time creating a work, it is mine, even if some jack ass steals it, and gives it away for free without my consent.

  2. The owner (including new owners) has the right to remove it from the market. If the author wants to make it no longer available for sale (and has retained, or re-acquired the rights to it), then so be it; that's their right to do so with their own product.
Personally, I am against involuntary public domain, but so be it. If the author demands a work of their own be destroyed, then their wishes should be respected even after death.
 
Joined
Jan 14, 2018
Messages
50,754
Codex Year of the Donut
Is abandonware piracy?
Of course it is; for (at least) two simple reasons.
  1. No one is entitled to another person's work, period, unless it is sold, given, or traded to them by (and with consent of) the author(s) or their authorized agents. If I spend my time creating a work, it is mine, even if some jack ass steals it, and gives it away for free without my consent.

  2. The owner (including new owners) has the right to remove it from the market. If the author wants to make it no longer available for sale (and has retained, or re-acquired the rights to it), then so be it; that's their right to do so with their own product.
Personally, I am against involuntary public domain, but so be it. If the author demands a work of their own be destroyed, then their wishes should be respected even after death.
I'm sure you used absolutely zero public domain inspirations in your work, right?

Oh no, what's that, you benefited from public domain works but you think your own work is simply too important to ever be public domain? Wow, I'm just shocked!
 

Raghar

Arcane
Vatnik
Joined
Jul 16, 2009
Messages
22,500
I even heard disabled shouldn't get disability pension, and they should work.

Obviously an artist would like to get some fiscal compensation. But we are living in era of copyright. And copyright protection should be only for short time to allow recoup cost. In case of computer games, a game that don't recoup development cost within 5 years has A LOT of problems.
 

Gastrick

Cipher
Joined
Aug 1, 2020
Messages
1,704
So pretty much, the original owners no longer give a shit about the game, and you aren't given a "legal" way to buy it, then of course you should just download it off Abandonware.
 

Derringer

Prophet
Joined
Jan 28, 2020
Messages
1,934
Dead software is the last thing on my mind caring about people pirating when Squeenix sold off their garbage dead western ips they ruined for a digital scam.
 

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