Butthurt Wesp5's VtM: Bloodlines patch is the biggest poison in the RPG modding community

[Rean]

I like Wesp5 and have officially crowned him SAINT MARTYR for spending 200 years restoring content from a fucking 30% finished game, bringing it to about half-finished.

 

[Wesp5]

The worst part about it is you introduce bugs as a way of getting attention.

Believe me I don't. I only monitor a lot of boards for new bug reports and answer whenever people need help. Most of the time though I would rather write "Read the friggin manual!" Like 90% of the reported problems come from people experiencing a bug in the original game, downloading the patch and installing it, and then continueing an old save. Due to the save game format of Bloodlines this is not possible, the patch displays a big popup explaining this right after installation and even moves the old saves, but still people try...

 

[Wesp5]

I remember playing the game on release. It's exactly as you say, it was not possible to escape using the boat after the fight with the main vampire hunter guy.

This was fixed in the official patch 1.2, which I heard took the solution from the Unofficial Patch without giving credit which made the guy who started it angry and thus made him hand it to me...

 

[Roguey]

Noticed this today https://www.nexusmods.com/vampirebloodlines/mods/197?tab=description

I think this game is a masterpiece, not a flawed masterpiece, and I wanted players to have a choice to experiencing the game in the same way I want to experience it. Originally, I started playing Official v1.2 after years of playing UP Basic, just to see for myself what it was like. The more I played it the more enamored I became with the game and the more I came to appreciate how much of a masterpiece the game was.

But there wasn't any patch that allowed a player to experience the game in this way. Since I was in a position to create a mod/patch that is what I did.

A patch made by a person who isn't as crazy and hypocritical as Tess that only fixes bugs and adds no fan-fic. Finally, an option for people who want the purest Troika-intended experience as possible without any of the glaring issues left behind or caused by newer hardware/software.

 

[Semiurge]

No backstreet blowjobs, no download.

 

[RaggleFraggle]

I remember when Offkorn made "unofficial patch stripped" back in the late 2000s. I would love most to see an official remaster to finally put an end to these inane patch wars, but Paradox is cheap af and refuses to negotiate with Microsoft. Also BL isn't even representative of their brand anymore even though they bought the damn IP just because BL is a cult classic with half a million purchases on Steam according to Wikipedia. Which has little to do with the IP itself and everything to do with Troika's writing, which Paradox isn't even using. My head is going to explode.

 

[Terra]

Mirror mirror on the wall, which is the truest patch of all?

But there wasn't any patch that allowed a player to experience the game in this way. Since I was in a position to create a mod/patch that is what I did. When I first started work, I was cleaning and fixing too much and I felt the game lost its unique feel, so I reversed many of those changes. Under the DOCS tab is expanded, more detailed information on my thoughts for the mod.

And so the eternal struggle continues, is it a fix or is it a tweak, one more modder wraps themself in knots trying to discern the answers.

 

[Wesp5]

A patch made by a person who isn't as crazy and hypocritical as Tess that only fixes bugs and adds no fan-fic. Finally, an option for people who want the purest Troika-intended experience as possible without any of the glaring issues left behind or caused by newer hardware/software.

That patch isn't much different to my basic patch, with the authors permission I analysed it and fixed many small leftover problems. The purest Troika-as-released-but-certainly-not-as-intended experience is using only the fixed executables with the official 1.2 patch.

 

[Rean]

I wish I had even a quarter of Wesp's patience to spend half a lifetime delving into the guts of a game only to get whined at by a bunch of retards who just go 'ooga-booga, I click download, I click play, let me tell you about how this game should be'.

What's the point of contention here? That he's put his name in the credits?
The guy has, at this point, spent more time on the game than any single one of the original devs.

That there's 'unintended' content there, that might have been written by him?
Who the fuck gives a shit? It's based on a setting originally intended for tabletop play, it's literally made to be built upon.

I'd be more concerned about the people responsible for the way LaCroix pronounces his own name.

The purest Troika-as-released-but-certainly-not-as-intended experience

Therein lies the problem. Some individuals like to think Troika intended, for some ungodly reason, to put out an unfinished, broken game, even though they have specifically stated again and again they wanted to do better and had much more in mind. Imagine deifying and worshipping a disaster story and something inherently broken.

 

[Spukrian]

Noticed this today https://www.nexusmods.com/vampirebloodlines/mods/197?tab=description

From that link:

In the Golden Temple 2 map during the final sequence if the player makes a save while the PC is crouched (stealth) the Barricade Bar to the double doors will be frozen solid. Any save made with the PC standing will free the Barricade Bar to slide back and forth normally.

I had this bug when I played v1.2, 15 or so years ago. The only time I used the console actually IIRC. Nice to know the cause of the bug.

 

[RaggleFraggle]

It's based on a setting originally intended for tabletop play, it's literally made to be built upon.

This is the fandom that sent Jess Henig so many death threats that he was afraid to open his inbox for years, just because he oversaw the writing of Mage 3e. They worship their headcanon and will rip you in half if you dare to violate it. That shit drove me out of the community years ago and after glancing at the V5 debacle I’m gladder I did. As far as arguments go, this is not a good one. Even if the tabletop scene wasn’t a dumpster fire, it’s still an irrelevant argument to make.

Ultimately, we have no idea what Troika intended. The game was released in an unfinished state with a rush job. Unless Paradox spends a ton of cash to reassemble as much of the original team as they can to remaster and finish the game, which is never gonna happen, we will never know what their vision was.

In any case, I find it very strange that Wesp has continually worked on patches since 2007 with no signs of stopping. You say yourself that he spent more time on the game than the original development team. No game can possibly be that buggy that you spend more time fixing it than making it. Wesp could’ve made a new game, several games, with the time he spent on these patches. I can’t imagine spending over a decade of my life making patches when I could make my own games. That’s ridiculous.

 

[Comte_II]

It's based on a setting originally intended for tabletop play, it's literally made to be built upon.

This is the fandom that sent Jess Henig so many death threats that he was afraid to open his inbox for years, just because he oversaw the writing of Mage 3e. They worship their headcanon and will rip you in half if you dare to violate it. That shit drove me out of the community years ago and after glancing at the V5 debacle I’m gladder I did. As far as arguments go, this is not a good one. Even if the tabletop scene wasn’t a dumpster fire, it’s still an irrelevant argument to make.

Ultimately, we have no idea what Troika intended. The game was released in an unfinished state with a rush job. Unless Paradox spends a ton of cash to reassemble as much of the original team as they can to remaster and finish the game, which is never gonna happen, we will never know what their vision was.

In any case, I find it very strange that Wesp has continually worked on patches since 2007 with no signs of stopping. You say yourself that he spent more time on the game than the original development team. No game can possibly be that buggy that you spend more time fixing it than making it. Wesp could’ve made a new game, several games, with the time he spent on these patches. I can’t imagine spending over a decade of my life making patches when I could make my own games. That’s ridiculous.

Truth

 

[Wesp5]

Ultimately, we have no idea what Troika intended. The game was released in an unfinished state with a rush job.

I completely agree. When we restored the Public Library and Chateau Hotel maps I even emailed Brian Mitsoda and asked him what he still remembered about the connected quests, but sadly it was very little. So I would be the first one to admit that the plus patch contains a lot of improvisation and speculation.

In any case, I find it very strange that Wesp has continually worked on patches since 2007 with no signs of stopping.

I can explain that. First of all I'm not a professional, I have a full time job and a kid and I do this in my spare time only. There were several occasions when I thought the patch was final, but everytime some fan appeared who was even more a perfectionist than I am and kept reporting always smaller getting issues!

 

[Nano]

Wesp keeps finding bugs to fix because a triple-A RPG like Bloodlines will *always* have bugs, no matter how many were already fixed. And Bloodlines is far from the only game like this. Look at New Vegas's YUP Patch, every few months a new version of it comes out with a massive changelog.

 

[Technomancer]

because a triple-A RPG like Bloodlines will *always* have bugs, no matter how many were already fixed. And Bloodlines is far from the only game like this. Look at New Vegas's YUP Patch

Calling it an RPG is a stretch but oblivion fan patching process was more or less finished in 2016, bethesda games are notoriously buggy and they have larger game worlds. Technically last update was in 21 but all updates after 16 were very minor and even fixed fuckups of previous patches.

 

[Sykar]

because a triple-A RPG like Bloodlines will *always* have bugs, no matter how many were already fixed. And Bloodlines is far from the only game like this. Look at New Vegas's YUP Patch

Calling it an RPG is a stretch but oblivion fan patching process was more or less finished in 2016, bethesda games are notoriously buggy and they have larger game worlds. Technically last update was in 21 but all updates after 16 were very minor and even fixed fuckups of previous patches.

How is Bloodlines not a RPG?

 

[Technomancer]

How is Bloodlines not a RPG?

Talking about TES 4: Oblivion to make a comparison in patching time. I disagree with a statement that you can patch the game forever. Eventually you can reach the point where 99% of bugged elements will get fixed. Of course you can get there much faster if you have a group of like-minded individual (like beths patch mods do). Wesp does this solo.

 

[Serus]

because a triple-A RPG like Bloodlines will *always* have bugs, no matter how many were already fixed. And Bloodlines is far from the only game like this. Look at New Vegas's YUP Patch

Calling it an RPG is a stretch but oblivion fan patching process was more or less finished in 2016, bethesda games are notoriously buggy and they have larger game worlds. Technically last update was in 21 but all updates after 16 were very minor and even fixed fuckups of previous patches.

They probably mostly fixed stuff. Oblivion, as shitty as it is, wasn't half unfinished when it comes to quests and areas. Basically it was like Wesp's basic patch not his "real" masterpiece with restored (and "restored") content. Apples and oranges.
At least i assume the above is true, I only played an non-patched game very long time ago.

 

[Diggfinger]

Wesp5 stole my bike once, too.

Glad there's finally a place I can vent my anger !

 

[Sykar]

Wesp5 stole my bike once, too.

Glad there's finally a place I cant went my anger !

Did he try to fix it? Might explain its long absence and why you think he is a thief.

 

[Wesp5]

Talking about TES 4: Oblivion to make a comparison in patching time. I disagree with a statement that you can patch the game forever. Eventually you can reach the point where 99% of bugged elements will get fixed.

I agree. I almost thought that 11.1 would have been the final patch, but then people continued to go over it with a fine toothed comb, as Beckett would say . Just take a look at Planet Vampire, there are people who replay with every new patch! Also compared to TES or id games, there is no source code for Bloodlines and the SDK was patched together by some Russian modders out of an HL2 alpha build leak. There are still dozends of known issues and unrestored content that we will never be able to fix or restore as far as I can imagine.

 

[Storyfag]

Wesp5 stole my bike once, too.

Back in fifth grade, eh boss?

 

[Daemongar]

Talking about TES 4: Oblivion to make a comparison in patching time. I disagree with a statement that you can patch the game forever. Eventually you can reach the point where 99% of bugged elements will get fixed.

I agree. I almost thought that 11.1 would have been the final patch, but then people continued to go over it with a fine toothed comb, as Beckett would say . Just take a look at Planet Vampire, there are people who replay with every new patch! Also compared to TES or id games, there is no source code for Bloodlines and the SDK was patched together by some Russian modders out of an HL2 alpha build leak. There are still dozends of known issues and unrestored content that we will never be able to fix or restore as far as I can imagine.

Wesp5 I appreciate what you do. I also like having updated patches as an excuse to play the game over from the beginning.

The only bug that is still there that drives me crazy is Caller you've got the first shot at Deb tonight! So who do I have the pleasure of speaking with? Hi Deb this is uhhh... Vigo... - I am not sure I've ever heard more than the first 120 seconds of that gal on the radio as every time there is a radio to be found - either playing in the background or I turn on, it starts at the beginning with Vigo. I've played the game 5+ times, and still - I never heard more than 2 minutes of "Deb of the Night"

 

[HansDampf]

Can't you just listen to it in your haven?

 

[Ol' Willy]

there are people who replay with every new patch

Hardcore autism