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KickStarter System Shock 1 Remake by Nightdive Studios

Bad Sector

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I went through this on some thread a while ago. A lot of it's to do with missing depth perception (z axis). We have no trouble navigating the real world for salient objects, even though it would be just as visually messy and confusing if projected into a 2-d surface as any modern game (actually much more so - think of a photo of a Favela).

I don't think that'd be the case, i personally do not have depth perception (i "see" things like in a monitor or a photo) yet i do not have issue parsing real world 3d spaces - and my place is incredibly cluttered :-P. The brain uses multiple cues to parse 3d space, including lighting, shadows, scale and motion and depth is only one of them, otherwise -e.g.- people who have lost one eye wouldn't be able to parse 3d spaces at all.
 

gurugeorge

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I went through this on some thread a while ago. A lot of it's to do with missing depth perception (z axis). We have no trouble navigating the real world for salient objects, even though it would be just as visually messy and confusing if projected into a 2-d surface as any modern game (actually much more so - think of a photo of a Favela).

I don't think that'd be the case, i personally do not have depth perception (i "see" things like in a monitor or a photo) yet i do not have issue parsing real world 3d spaces - and my place is incredibly cluttered :-P. The brain uses multiple cues to parse 3d space, including lighting, shadows, scale and motion and depth is only one of them, otherwise -e.g.- people who have lost one eye wouldn't be able to parse 3d spaces at all.

Isn't that just because your brain (or the brain of the one-eyed person) is used to the condition and has adapted to it? It's a different story for people who are used to having direct z-axis perception, then suddenly it's missing.

I believe it's actually one of the causes of nausea from playing 3-d games for some people - it's like your eyes are fumbling for the z-axis on the 2-d surface, not finding it, and it makes you dizzy.

There was a long discussion by John Carmack about it a few years ago somewhere, in the context of problems with VR.
 

Gargaune

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I remember playing Deus Ex: Human Revolution for the first time and encountering a janitor's cart in a little fenced in area in the first mission. I looked at the bottles and rags and different shelves and was like "what the fuck is this all FOR?". It was one prop, sitting off to the side, that did nothing and served no purpose and it contained more polygons than 2 levels of the Abyss in Ultima Underworld.

It's odd how ignoring almost everything you are seeing and hearing is a basic part of playing a modern game.
I'm not arguing for a strictly utilitarian approach to environmental design, I think having all sorts of details like that janitor's cart you mention is very valuable to engaging with the diegesis. But at the same time, level designers and artists should mind the limitations of the interfaces, like gurugeorge pointed out below, and the intended interactions.

Since you mentioned it, nü-DX is actually a good example. Even though it features some very detailed environmental decor, replete with romanticised piles of clutter everywhere, it never really interfered with combat because of the cohesive visual composition. Your eyes had little trouble picking apart the tactical geometry of the space and the moving parts and actors within. And at least in DX4, the UI is brilliantly ergonomic.

Cyberpunk 2077, on the other hand, is very spectacular to look at in a screenshot but I constantly feel like I'm fighting drunk. I charge into a room and there's so much asymmetry, so much clutter, decals, so many twinkling lights and flickering UI elements that's it's hard for me to get an immediate tactical feel for the space, it's hard enough to keep track of enemies, let alone form an instinctive, on-the-spot memory for cover placement. You're dealing with an overload of visual information, the bulk of which isn't tactically relevant and your brain struggles to keep up with it in the heat of the moment.

Swinging back to nü-System Shock here, the screenshots look encouraging. You know, aside from being dark enough for Matthew McConaughey to drive a spaceship through 'em.

I went through this on some thread a while ago. A lot of it's to do with missing depth perception (z axis). We have no trouble navigating the real world for salient objects, even though it would be just as visually messy and confusing if projected into a 2-d surface as any modern game (actually much more so - think of a photo of a Favela). The problem is that our eyes are unable to selectively focus in the z axis when depth is merely represented in terms of perspective on a 2-d surface, in the way that they are in the real, 3-d world. And VR doesn't solve the problem either.

What with things like Nanite, you could have actually fully realistic 3-d game worlds now, with all the messy real-world detail, but until the z axis problem is solved (e.g. with "holotanks" or something like Star Trek's holodeck), games are going to have to discipline themselves to be really selective in what they show, otherwise gameplay becomes confusing and difficult for this simple, mechanical reason. (e.g. paradigmatically, you'll still need consistent "big white box with blue stripe=medkit" signals and that type of thing - whereas with a holodeck you'd be able to spot medical kits in whatever form). Consistent art design and art direction, with some element of stylization that works around this problem is still going to be necessary until the z-axis problem is solved.

To put this another way, our visual system is really good at discerning edges and colour differences, but the full visual system includes selective z-axis focus, information from which is integrated with the "2d" aspects of edge and colour difference perception. Games without real (not simulated perspectival) z-axis depth put the whole weight of discernment into the 2-d aspects of our visual system, and that's not enough to enable gameplaly navigation in fully realistic environments.
Yeah, that could be part of it. Even a "realistic" level of visual detail is gonna be harder to parse in two dimensions, and videogame developers are already trying to one-up the real world. Which makes sense artistically, you want interesting, memorable spaces, but what works for watching in film won't necessarily cut it when you gotta do the pew-pew yourself.

I don't think that'd be the case, i personally do not have depth perception (i "see" things like in a monitor or a photo) yet i do not have issue parsing real world 3d spaces - and my place is incredibly cluttered :-P. The brain uses multiple cues to parse 3d space, including lighting, shadows, scale and motion and depth is only one of them, otherwise -e.g.- people who have lost one eye wouldn't be able to parse 3d spaces at all.

Isn't that just because your brain (or the brain of the one-eyed person) is used to the condition and has adapted to it? It's a different story for people who are used to having direct z-axis perception, then suddenly it's missing.
It's an interesting argument. Bad Sector, I'd be curious whether you find a game like Cyberpunk 2077 more visually confusing than the norm, like I do, or not. I'd ask my father, he's got astigmatism, but he regards videogames about as favourably as I do Twitter.
 
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Honestly I think a big problem with the visual design is just how dark it is. When you play System Shock and System Shock 2, a big part of what makes the games' atmospheres so effective is that Citadel Station and the Von Braun feel lived in. When you're in medbay in System Shock, for example, despite the fact that the place is trashed it feels like one that humans would design. It has a relatively warm color palette, soft lighting, etc. In System Shock 2 the same is applicable. The ship seems like an environment that people would construct with the intent to spend a considerable duration of time in. This is especially noticeable in places like crew quarters and recreation in regards to warmth, but applies throughout the entire game. This believability I find enhances the horror because even though the atmosphere of the location isn't blatantly dark and ominous in and of itself, the contrast of a very recognizable and familiar sort of space with the nightmarish events that unfold creates a very surreal feeling of fear. Obviously the first System Shock doesn't really go for a horror approach in most places so that aforementioned feeling of fear is far less apparent, but even in non-horror games having an immersive world is very important (especially in immersive sims). If you were to remake System Shock and focus on the horror element (as this game is attempting to do) you could use this contrast quite effectively without even having to alter the game's visual design. This is essentially what System Shock 2 did, except with a sequel instead of a remake.

When I look at the screenshots for this game, especially the one quoted of the updated medical room, I see extremely high contrast, dark, spooky lighting. I see cold, sterile rooms. I see a video game, not a lived-in world.

I respect the tremendous amount of effort that's probably gone into the visuals of this game (along with the game as a whole), but it simply feels to me like they've missed the point.

WhWabdm.png


gR1RnIK.png
 

GhostCow

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It's an interesting argument. Bad Sector, I'd be curious whether you find a game like Cyberpunk 2077 more visually confusing than the norm, like I do, or not. I'd ask my father, he's got astigmatism, but he regards videogames about as favourably as I do Twitter.

Not the person you asked but I was born blind in one eye and have never had depth perception. I don't find Cyberpunk or any other game I can think of visually confusing. I don't really get this discussion at all. I have noticed that I have less trouble with first person melee than all the people who complain that they need depth perception to tell if they are close enough for their weapon to reach.
 

LudensCogitet

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I remember playing Deus Ex: Human Revolution for the first time and encountering a janitor's cart in a little fenced in area in the first mission. I looked at the bottles and rags and different shelves and was like "what the fuck is this all FOR?". It was one prop, sitting off to the side, that did nothing and served no purpose and it contained more polygons than 2 levels of the Abyss in Ultima Underworld.

It's odd how ignoring almost everything you are seeing and hearing is a basic part of playing a modern game.
I'm not arguing for a strictly utilitarian approach to environmental design, I think having all sorts of details like that janitor's cart you mention is very valuable to engaging with the diegesis. But at the same time, level designers and artists should mind the limitations of the interfaces, like gurugeorge pointed out below, and the intended interactions.

I agree, totally utilitarian would be too far.
The Deus Ex example is really a personal reference, just because that was the first game where I started feeling confused by the number of things on screen and started to feel like an old man. Lol.
 

Bad Sector

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Isn't that just because your brain (or the brain of the one-eyed person) is used to the condition and has adapted to it? It's a different story for people who are used to having direct z-axis perception, then suddenly it's missing.

Yes, i am certainly used to it - or more specifically, i never knew any other reality (in fact it was only a few years ago that i realized that people see things differently than i do). But wouldn't someone who is used to be playing 3D games for a long time be the same case? Ie. used to parsing 3D worlds without the element of depth?

I believe it's actually one of the causes of nausea from playing 3-d games for some people - it's like your eyes are fumbling for the z-axis on the 2-d surface, not finding it, and it makes you dizzy.

Yes that is a very likely cause.

It's an interesting argument. Bad Sector, I'd be curious whether you find a game like Cyberpunk 2077 more visually confusing than the norm, like I do, or not.

No i never had any issue with parsing the 3D space of any modern (3D) game. Though i did have issues parsing the 3D space of Unreal Tournament 3 (and still find it a little harder than other games but not as much as i used to back when i first tried to play it) because i felt there was too much noise with the contrast being too uniform over the entire screen. Note that this is the only game i had that issue with.

I have noticed that I have less trouble with first person melee than all the people who complain that they need depth perception to tell if they are close enough for their weapon to reach.

FWIW i do have an issue judging if i'm close enough too but i think that is because games often have separate FOV for viewmodels and the world so there is a mismatch there. Though in melee combat i pretty much always run up against the enemy anyway so it doesn't matter :-P.
 

gurugeorge

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Isn't that just because your brain (or the brain of the one-eyed person) is used to the condition and has adapted to it? It's a different story for people who are used to having direct z-axis perception, then suddenly it's missing.

Yes, i am certainly used to it - or more specifically, i never knew any other reality (in fact it was only a few years ago that i realized that people see things differently than i do). But wouldn't someone who is used to be playing 3D games for a long time be the same case? Ie. used to parsing 3D worlds without the element of depth?

Oh sure. I've been playing games for decades now, and I'm somewhat used to it. But I think that's partly because games were graphically simple enough for a long time. At first you had the distinction of sprites (with their limited, recognizable movements, and often gaudy colours standing out against a background), then you had the still fairly simple grapics of early 3-d. But even then the "everything's brown" problem started showing up.

As realism increases, I think the gap starts to appear. It just means that there's that sliding scale of realism vs. playability, and developers are going to have to consciously eschew richer realism sometimes, in order to maintain playability.
 

HansDampf

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The high contrast between the dark background and the bright, bloomy lights is not easy on the eyes. When I played the demo some years ago, I also didn't like the scanlines and chromatic aberration effects on HUD elements and inventory graphics. And it looks like they haven't changed them. :|
 

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https://www.windowscentral.com/nightdive-studios-expect-largely-complete-system-shock-remake

Nightdive Studios on what to expect from 'largely complete' System Shock remake
"Our goal is always to remake games so that they look like what you remember, not the way that they actually looked when you played them on your 14-inch CRT monitor."

It's been a long road for the System Shock remake. The project began as a Kickstarter in 2016 from Nightdive Studios, a company that has made a name for itself with its work on various classic game remakes and remasters. While the campaign was a huge success — fundraising over $1.3 million with an original $900,000 goal — the game is still not out yet.

The team hasn't been silent about the process involved with bringing this retro game to newer platforms and audiences, however, thanks to monthly updates on the Kickstarter. The remake has been through an engine change and a few different teams, but it's finally on its way towards release. Larry Kuperman, director of business development at Nightdive, was on hand at GDC to give updates on System Shock, and said it's "largely complete." He referred to it as being in "pre-beta"; the PC version has all of the weapons, enemies, and other elements, but the team is still working on the console versions. Kuperman noted that the developers want to release the game simultaneously across all platforms.

While we didn't get hands-on time with System Shock at GDC, we were shown a number of recorded snippets from the game, including a trek through maintenance on Level 3 and one from later on. Based on my brief time with the footage, it seems on track to hit the studio's target for later this year. It also seems to strike a great balance between old and new, between classic and modern, which has been at the core of many great remakes and remasters over the past few years.

Why focus on game remakes?
Nightdive is well known in the business for its remasters of high-profile classic titles that typically aren't available on newer platforms. It began its run with a version of System Shock 2 that was released on GOG, but has worked on a number of games since, including Turok, DOOM 64, Blood: Fresh Supply, and the recent Quake remaster, which was released following QuakeCon 2021. While it started off rough by just taking a version of System Shock 2 and putting it up for purchase, the company realized quickly that it wasn't good enough. They couldn't just put straight ports out; they had to do more.

Kuperman talks about one of these pieces of early feedback, which mentioned this port didn't include a lot of the work community modders had done for the game. Then, the company, which was founded by Stephen and Alix Kick after the former discovered he couldn't play System Shock 2 without an emulator, hired that modder on full time.

"The more that we worked on the game, the more that we wanted to do, and the further we got from the original concepts that made System Shock so great."

Nightdive now has way more experience crafting remakes and remasters. Not only is keeping the game's original content a priority, but it needs to offer something for more modern players who might not have played the game the first time around. For example, in its Turok for the N64 remaster, the studio made a previously unfindable shotgun much easier to find and gave users the option to keep the fog on or turn it off. System Shock will be similar. The studio already upgraded the game for more modern PC players with System Shock: Enhanced Edition, but the remake will contain a version of the original game and a new experience built from the ground up.

"Our goal is always to remake games so that they look like what you remember, not the way that they actually looked when you played them on your 14-inch CRT monitor," Kuperman said.

It's all a balancing act. You have to offer the newer players at least part of the original experience. This was the case with much larger remake projects, like Resident Evil 2, where the core story was mostly the same, but Capcom updated the engine and the gameplay to move away from outdated tank controls.

"Because of the fact that the original game already exists, some of the decisions they're already made for you, right?" Kuperman, who has a background in theater elaborated. "There are a million different variations on Hamlet, right? But Hamlet doesn't win at the end of it in any of them. You have certain givens that you can't vary from."
A journey to a new System Shock
This remake has been rebuilt from the ground up, according to the project's Kickstarter. At first, the game was being built in Unity, but the studio decided to switch over to Unreal Engine 4 a couple of years in.

"Unity is not a great engine to use if you want to make an FPS on console," game director Jason Fader told Polygon back in 2017, citing fidelity and cross-platform support as some of the reasons why the team made the switch.

In February 2018, a Kickstarter update from Stephen Kick explained that while the game first started as a straight remaster, the team had to shift focus, which caused further delays.

"As our concept grew and as our team changed, so did the scope of what we were doing and with that budget for the game," he wrote. "The more that we worked on the game, the more that we wanted to do, and the further we got from the original concepts that made System Shock so great."

Kuperman explained that Nightdive also switched teams around this time. They had been receiving feedback from its Discord and Kickstarter backers that the earlier build was just not what they had expected. He echoes what Kick wrote in his Kickstarter update, noting that people had great ideas, but it just wasn't right for the project. The team has now been working on this version of System Shock for the past four years, going back to some of the concepts that were shared with the 2016 campaign, and making it closer to the original game.

"It was not the vision that we had," Kuperman said of the first build, adding that "We went through a painful process — costly, both in terms of time and money. Refocused, we put together a new team. You're going to see it's going to be very true to the spirit of System Shock."

OK, but how is the game?
I saw what he meant when I got a look at the new System Shock footage. The original System Shock was a combination of a point-and-click adventure and a first-person shooter (FPS). While it used a WASD control scheme on PC, it required the use of your mouse to pick up loot, for example. Also, it came out in 1994 so it has all the trappings of games from that era. However, it was created in an all-new 3D graphical engine, and its range of movement was still innovative for the time. It had mild RPG elements where you could upgrade your weapons and skills, and had hacking puzzles that have gone on to become practically the norm in other games. It may look like Wolfenstein 3D and DOOM, but it's much closer to Deus Ex or other cyberpunk immersive sims that came after it. It became one of the best shooters of all time despite it being horrifically outdated by 2022 standards.

The System Shock remake is now a full-blown FPS, with what I assume is a more streamlined control scheme to go along with it. You no longer have to drag the screen with your mouse or keep hitting A or D to turn around, and you can pick up objects without having to click and drag with your mouse. You do have to click on objects to pick them up, but it's a simple right-click on your mouse, and then you can organize your attached inventory later. You can also assign items to quick slots.

The game also features more robust animation for picking up weapons, for example, or throwing grenades. This is all fairly typical by modern shooter standards, but to see it implemented here shows Nightdive understood a lot needed to be changed to account for nearly 30 years of game development.

What struck me the most, however, was the way it looked. The original System Shock has a familiar level design and user interface, but it's also quite colorful. There are a lot of bright blues, greens, and reds, which contrast nicely with the dark colors used for the design of the Citadel Station. It's quite striking, and makes for a great way to differentiate sections across levels. The remake keeps a lot of the same palette and integrated a bunch of the very crowded UI into the environment. It's still a game where you play as a hacker with a gun, but it's a lot cleaner, there's way less mess blocking your line of sight, and it's just pretty to look at.

You can tell in many ways that this is a remake of a classic game. It doesn't hinge on ideas of photorealism like many AAA titles do these days and has a cartoonish, semi-blocky look. However, the point of the remake is not to redo System Shock, but rather to find the balance between old and new.

"I think that the modern gamer is going to start playing a game and it's going to look and feel the way that a game should look. And we'll bring them in and I think the core System Shock audience will go 'yes!'" Kuperman said.

Final thoughts
Since we weren't able to go hands-on with this version System Shock, we can't talk fully about how it plays or how minute details from the game do (or don't) come over. You can still try out the demo available on Steam, GOG, and the Epic Games Store, but it's an alpha build from 2020. There have been other demos in the meantime though, and you can check them out on YouTube.

However, whether you want to play the original game or the remake, both will be available. Nightdive wants to allow you to enjoy the classic titles you may have missed or the ones you remember from your childhood, and that includes providing experiences for the most people possible. This was a studio that started because one person couldn't play System Shock 2 easily, and continuing that mission with other games while making sure the heart of it is preserved has become is foundation.

"Our industry is less than 60 years old," Kuperman said. "And … it's important. At the same time, we're at a point where the future is uncertain. We don't want to see not just the games, but the people that made the games lost to history."

System Shock remake is expected to launch later this year on PC, Epic Games, and GOG. Console editions of the game for Xbox and PlayStation are also in the works.
 
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"largely complete"
:thisisfine:

"I think that the modern gamer is going to start playing a game and it's going to look and feel the way that a game should look. And we'll bring them in and I think the core System Shock audience will go 'yes!'" Kuperman said.
This grotesque word salad makes me wish for a
biden2020.png
-rating in General Gaming.
 

soulburner

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I wonder if the game will properly support HDR mode on modern displays, this would enhance the bright highlights and darkness so much more.
 

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not done yet? Apparently it's harder to complete a SS remake now than a SS original in 1994. They had to deal with being creative pioneers in those days, but whatever. Colored lights must be pretty complicated
 

Nifft Batuff

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I realized now that the development of this game started so long ago that remakes were still something rare and interesting.
 

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https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1598858095/system-shock/posts/3499646

Backerkit Update

Hello hackers,

The lengthy process of locking surveys has come to an end, and with that, starting tomorrow we will be charging cards! You will still be able to update your shipping address until we are ready to ship your physical rewards, we will be sure to post when that happens so do not worry.

Also, here is a little something new on Citadel:

1daab081f2c7df683c51eb5afaf77d41_original.jpg

Be sure to follow us on:

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See you next time!

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Tweed

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not done yet? Apparently it's harder to complete a SS remake now than a SS original in 1994. They had to deal with being creative pioneers in those days, but whatever. Colored lights must be pretty complicated

It's hard work building up the hype, making a demo and then switching engines, blowing all of the money out of your ass trying to change things and licensing a sequel that will never come out.
 

Denim Destroyer

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The time span between both System Shock's release date is less than the announcement of Nightdive's remake and modern day. Five years and six years respectively.
 

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