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Quake Enhanced Edition

toughasnails

Guest
Trying to push this type of mod as some kind of official and essential experience is just weird, though not unheard of these days.
And who is doing that exactly? I get that some people are blaming Copper for the changes this rerelease made to the Nightmare difficulty, and it may or may not have served as inspiration for that. But p much nobody is pushing it as T H E way to play Quake. People who are triggered by the sheer existence of any and all gameplay mods are the annoying ones here...
 

ciox

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Joined
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Trying to push this type of mod as some kind of official and essential experience is just weird, though not unheard of these days.
And who is doing that exactly? I get that some people are blaming Copper for the changes this rerelease made to the Nightmare difficulty, and it may or may not have served as inspiration for that. But p much nobody is pushing it as T H E way to play Quake.

https://www.doomworld.com/forum/topic/123868-quake-remastered/?page=3&tab=comments#comment-2369893

People who are triggered by the sheer existence of any and all gameplay mods are the annoying ones here...

I know that sentiment well. Don't subscribe to it, since what bothers me is the lack of proper advertisement. I make mods that turn games upside down if I feel like it, they are properly advertised as mods that turn the game upside down however. There's no "official unofficial official community patch" nonsense.
 
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Buddy of mine had recommended Underdark Overbright so I probably should look at it at some point now that I can be a lazy piece of shit and play it with one click. Going to wait on at least finishing Ion Fury first though, maybe even Hedon episode 2 just 'cause Quake already had a good stack of play recently. Guess one point in favor of doing it sooner would be my memories of playing everything else would be a little fresher and it'd be fun to stack it against the vanilla episodes and expansions.
 

Morenatsu.

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I usually keep my FOV at 90.

The default of Quake is 90 hFOV for a 4:3 monitor which translates to ~121 hFOV for a 16:9 monitor. 90 on a 16:9 monitor is too narrow for it.
It's actually 106 hFOV. I don't know why, I don't do math, but I assume it's probably because the view is not actually flat.


Speaking of FOV... things are different when a game uses vertical FOV as its base. Source Engine games used 75, which to most people seems like that's low because it's not 90, but actually, not only is 75 vFOV close to 90 hFOV, it's actually slightly wider. Of course, those games also have seperate FOV for weapons, which makes people even more confused. Just saying, because I was there back in the old days of the Steampowered User Forums, where people measured FOV diagonally and tried to improve graphics by turning them off, and I aspired to be one of the non-retarded, and actually was. So I know my sheeeit about FOV, I tell you.
 

Bad Sector

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It's actually 106 hFOV. I don't know why, I don't do math, but I assume it's probably because the view is not actually flat.

You are right, i mistyped in the calculator i used (it doesn't do two-way calculation so i just did it backwards).

However...

Source Engine games used 75, which to most people seems like that's low because it's not 90, but actually, not only is 75 vFOV close to 90 hFOV, it's actually slightly wider. Of

Source Engine - like other Quake-based engines - uses horizontal FOV, however it scales the fov to match the current aspect ratio. The FOV you type in the console is the horizontal FOV for a 4:3 monitor. There is even a calculator for that (actually that is the calculator i initially wanted to use but couldn't find :-P).

Fun fact: the developers of Zeno Clash (made in Source) got this wrong when they made Zeno Clash 2 (made in UE3) - after the game was released people complained that the FOV felt too narrow, which to the devs sounded weird since they simply used the same FOV values from ZC1 - until it was pointed out that the engines use these FOVs differently :-P (they fixed it in a patch a couple of days later).
 

Morenatsu.

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Source Engine games used 75, which to most people seems like that's low because it's not 90, but actually, not only is 75 vFOV close to 90 hFOV, it's actually slightly wider. Of

Source Engine - like other Quake-based engines - uses horizontal FOV, however it scales the fov to match the current aspect ratio. The FOV you type in the console is the horizontal FOV for a 4:3 monitor. There is even a calculator for that (actually that is the calculator i initially wanted to use but couldn't find :-P).
FOV in source engine is "fun", because like almost all engines with Quake heritage, aspect ratio correction is done by scaling the horizontal FOV to keep the vertical FOV intact. This puts people with the same FOV but wider screens than others at an advantage.
This is describing Source's FOV correctly, that is, the vertical FOV is fixed and the horizontal FOV is scaled. That's it. But this description is also saying that's what Quake does? But that's completely wrong. Original Quake uses fixed horizontal FOV, as do most other games and engine based on it, except Source. It's GoldSource that still used horizontal FOV. But that means this calculator is entirely misleading. It assumed a fixed horitzontal FOV, with the first section converting the 4:3 setting to the proper, horizontally-expanded FOV for the set aspect ratio, and the second section converting it back to 4:3. So it's more like the everything-but-Source calculator.

Fun fact: the developers of Zeno Clash (made in Source) got this wrong when they made Zeno Clash 2 (made in UE3) - after the game was released people complained that the FOV felt too narrow, which to the devs sounded weird since they simply used the same FOV values from ZC1 - until it was pointed out that the engines use these FOVs differently :-P (they fixed it in a patch a couple of days later).
You know, this isn't Unreal Engine, but when I tried playing Doom 2016 before, I swear the FOV felt really weird for being set to 90. I have no idea if that's right, but it did make me wonder whether some engines might be doing some kind of conversion. Like, instead of setting vertical FOV directly, you set the 4:3 horizontal FOV, and then they take the 4:3 vertical FOV and use that as the actual FOV for all aspect ratios, or something. I haven't played either Zeno Clash, but it might be something like that...
 

Bad Sector

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This is describing Source's FOV correctly, that is, the vertical FOV is fixed and the horizontal FOV is scaled. That's it. But this description is also saying that's what Quake does? But that's completely wrong. Original Quake uses fixed horizontal FOV, as do most other games and engine based on it, except Source.

It says "almost all engines with Quake heritage", not the original Quake - the original Quake only had unscaled FOV. However many engines that are based on the Quake engine added a FOV scaling where the FOV you enter is a horizontal FOV using a 4:3 as a reference and scaled to preserve the vertical FOV. I'm not sure what GoldSrc does, but -e.g.- this option was already there in Quake 3 and was also implemented in various Quake 1 source ports. Valve also seems to have implemented it as well. As there isn't a common ancestor though, not all engines support it.

AFAIK most of those changes were made back in the late 90s and early 2000s when 4:3 were still the mainstream choice, so everything was really made for that aspect ratio - including FOV definitions. So making the engine "pretend" the FOV command always refers to a 4:3 aspect ratio would make everything work "automagically" and let the (few then) people with widescreen see more stuff.

You know, this isn't Unreal Engine, but when I tried playing Doom 2016 before, I swear the FOV felt really weird for being set to 90. I have no idea if that's right, but it did make me wonder whether some engines might be doing some kind of conversion. Like, instead of setting vertical FOV directly, you set the 4:3 horizontal FOV, and then they take the 4:3 vertical FOV and use that as the actual FOV for all aspect ratios, or something. I haven't played either Zeno Clash, but it might be something like that...

Yeah that is basically what i did in an older engine of mine which internally uses vertical FOV but many people seem to have a harder time wrapping their heads around vertical FOV, so the "fov" console command actually worked like i describe above where it assumed horizontal FOV for a 4:3 monitor and calculated the vertical FOV accordingly.
 

Morenatsu.

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It says "almost all engines with Quake heritage", not the original Quake - the original Quake only had unscaled FOV.
Unscaled? Quake sets the horizontal FOV, which can be changed through the console, same as everything derived from it.

However many engines that are based on the Quake engine added a FOV scaling where the FOV you enter is a horizontal FOV using a 4:3 as a reference and scaled to preserve the vertical FOV. I'm not sure what GoldSrc does, but -e.g.- this option was already there in Quake 3 and was also implemented in various Quake 1 source ports. Valve also seems to have implemented it as well. As there isn't a common ancestor though, not all engines support it.

AFAIK most of those changes were made back in the late 90s and early 2000s when 4:3 were still the mainstream choice, so everything was really made for that aspect ratio - including FOV definitions. So making the engine "pretend" the FOV command always refers to a 4:3 aspect ratio would make everything work "automagically" and let the (few then) people with widescreen see more stuff.
No games from the time ever did this. They always just slapped the same horizontal FOV on every aspect ratio, leaving widescreen cropped unless you manually increased the FOV. Source changed it to set vertical FOV instead, other engines might have done something different, but that was well into the mid-2000s when games were starting to really care about widescreen. You have a really bad habit of talking about things you don't know and confusing everything.
 

Bad Sector

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Unscaled?

Yes, the real horizontal FOV doesn't get scaled based on the current aspect ratio or anything else, you get what you ask for.

Quake sets the horizontal FOV, which can be changed through the console, same as everything derived from it.

Yes but that isn't what i was referring to.

No games from the time ever did this. They always just slapped the same horizontal FOV on every aspect ratio, leaving widescreen cropped unless you manually increased the FOV. Source changed it to set vertical FOV instead, other engines might have done something different, but that was well into the mid-2000s when games were starting to really care about widescreen.

I mentioned "late 90s" mainly because i was under the impression that Quake 3 did this, but i checked the source code and while it has a r_customaspect variable which was supposed to be used to adjust the FOV based on the aspect ratio, it isn't used anywhere. I most likely confused it with Doom 3's r_aspectratio (which is used to do that and i just checked the source code for it to confirm it). Or it is very possible i saw it somewhere earlier in a Quake 3 based game that had fully implemented the r_customaspect variable as a feature that didn't make it in the Quake 3 game but was added later.

Also note that i was referring to Quake derived engines, not all engines. Many engines used vertical FOV from the beginning (and actually even Quake 3 converts the horizontal FOV to vertical FOV internally).
 

Morenatsu.

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I don't think we're even using the same terms anymore. I don't know what Quake 3 does, but the end result of it is the same as any other game: cropped widescreen. All that really matters is the FOV that ends up on the screen when I try to play it, and the value I put into the console to change it. And I only brought this up because of the mistaken idea some people have of certain settings being too low when they're really the same thing expressed a different way.
 

Bad Sector

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I don't know what Quake 3 does, but the end result of it is the same as any other game: cropped widescreen. All that really matters is the FOV that ends up on the screen when I try to play it, and the value I put into the console to change it.

The idea was that you'd put your monitor's aspect ratio instead of using a different FOV as that can change from the game or a server can have it locked to 90 and then the engine would adjust it (increase it) based on that. But it turns out it wasn't implemented (or it was removed at some point, which now that i think of it might be more likely since that would allow people to bypass the server FOV restriction - at the time when there were very few widescreen monitor users it probably seemed better to penalize them). It was implemented in Doom 3 though and some other games.
 

LESS T_T

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Codex 2014
Update 3 brings accessibility options, new Horde mode maps, adjustments and fixes: https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/2310/view/3177861894960065434

Quake-Accessibility-DisableALL_960x540_ESRB.gif
 

ferratilis

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You need to log in to Bethesda servers every time you launch, in order to access add-ons, so probably no. It's the same with Doom 1 and 2 Unity ports. Unless they remove that requirement.
 

Naraya

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You need to log in to Bethesda servers every time you launch, in order to access add-ons
No, you don't. Also, GOG release is already confirmed (though it's taking suspicious amount of time already).
I've read the forum you linked several months ago and still I doubt this will happen. How long can a simple game release on a particular store be in the finalising state?
 
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Also, GOG release is already confirmed (though it's taking suspicious amount of time already).
"Confirmed" by one of gog's retardo-tier PR representatives. Whenever somebody contacted Bethesda or NightDive directly, they both denied that a gog version was ever in the works.
a99cade9e5574714baf6aae90d436cecbb2124ab.png

Source: https://af.gog.com/forum/general/qu..._coming_to_gog_apparently/post1?as=1649904300

There's also this:
So some days ago I was in the chat of the German Bethesda Twitch channel and mentioned this problem. Someone from their community team was so kind to forward this to the Bethesda sales team. I told them the whole story and also gave them the link for this thread so they where able to see the official announcement. A bit later I got a reply and they told me that nobody had any info about the Enhanced version being finalised for a GOG release. SmollestLight lied to us.
Source: https://af.gog.com/forum/quake_series/quake_enhanced_update/post315?as=1649904300

Wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if the gog staffer straight-up lied as damage control.

Two more points to ponder:
- The Unity-ports for Doom never showed up on gog either
- The singleplayer part of the Steam version is already more or less DRM-free, all you have to do is drop an appid txt file into the Quake EE folder. If they wanted, they could've dropped a singleplayer-only build for gog months ago. And I highly doubt they'll bother to implement working multiplayer for a gog version.

Bethesda will probably give away the EE on Epic sooner than even contemplate (let alone start work on) a gog release.
 

Arthandas

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Well, GOG is a joke so what do you expect?
Not only most of the titles get slapped in months/years after Steam, many of them have cut features or dlc. You really need to cherry pick and do your own research before buying anything unless you want an inferior version. IMO it's best to stick to old games and exclusives only.
 

Curratum

Guest
Mouse in the remastered Kex port / engine feels a lot more responsive and immediate than what I get in Quakespasm.

Any ideas how to turn off smoothing / acceleration in the Quakespasm engine? Mouselook in Spasm just feels floaty, like you have quite a bit of accel/smoothing going on, while in the remaster it's much better and more immediate.
 

soulburner

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Sep 21, 2013
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Seems weird. Maybe it's a case of vsync being enabled in Quakespasm and disabled in Remastered?
 

Denim Destroyer

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Not a definitive answer but a possible lead. In the past it was a known issue in Quakespasm that the mouse would be near impossible to use without using the SDL2 .exe. This came about due to a Windows update changing things along those lines. Maybe you could try looking into that?
 

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