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Metroidvanias and RPGs - different genres, similar "game feel"

Sykar

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also think it's tough to draw hard lines between when something is like Metroid, Zelda or Dark Souls as there are many commonalities of the core gameplay/exploration aspects, and certain games
I think the hard line is that Metroidvania should be a platformer.
I dunno man, Metroid Prime sticks pretty close to the core and checks all the boxes for me despite the fact that one could technically put it in the first person shooter box and call it a day...

Metroid Prime is a great Metroid game, and a great game in general, but it is not a Metroidvania. This is also not a bad thing. Categorization is just that, categorization. A game does not become good or bad just because it does not belong to a certain genre.
The reason why Metroidvania games have such a narrow definition tied to 2D platformers is the fact that this kind of open exploration they offered was a novelty back in the day while exploration was there in 3D games early on.
 

Grauken

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The term Metroidvania however is specifically about a variant that added all the RPG stuff Symphony of the Night added to the equation, so the Vania part isn't superfluous, it's the very thing the name was about.

Only the name isn't specifically about interconnected world, it's specifically about the things SotN did, which is the interconnected world...but also the RPG stuff

this is just blatantly false and historical revisionism, this was never just about SotN but about games that are like Super Metroid and SotN, the RPG elements SotN introduced were rather irrelevant
 

Nifft Batuff

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Can anyone recommend any 3D Metroidvania games for PC? Something similar to King’s Field on the PlayStation. Doesn’t have to be first person.

I already am aware of the From Software games.
Soul Reaver, Shadowman. Both should be on GOG.
 
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The term Metroidvania however is specifically about a variant that added all the RPG stuff Symphony of the Night added to the equation, so the Vania part isn't superfluous, it's the very thing the name was about.

Only the name isn't specifically about interconnected world, it's specifically about the things SotN did, which is the interconnected world...but also the RPG stuff

this is just blatantly false and historical revisionism, this was never just about SotN but about games that are like Super Metroid and SotN, the RPG elements SotN introduced were rather irrelevant

No, you're wrong, it's very specifically about what SotN was doing; it's why SotN gets referred to as the first Metroidvania as opposed to the older games SotN was building on. You didn't need a new term for what Metroid was doing because there was already a term...the game is just an Action Adventure Platformer. Having interconnected stages is a normal aspect of Action Adventure games that goes back to Adventure on the Atari...which itself is playing off older Text Adventure games. You had Adventure in 1980, at the beginning of 1986 Nintendo releases The Legend of Zelda, and then in the summer of that same year they'd come out with a Platformer variant on Action Adventure with Metroid. The thing that set SotN apart is it was a JRPG variant of the old Action Adventure Platformer.
 

cvv

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I had avoided this genre for the longest time, the combat always felt BSB compared to "proper" 3D action adventures or RPGs like Souls.

But a few months ago I played Ori 2 and totally fell in love. A fantastic experience. Immediately bought Hollow Knight and had a blast too. Now half-way through Blasphemous, it's not as good as Ori 2 or HK but still a great game. The aesthetics and vibe are 10/10.

I have about 5 more metroidvanias lined up, already got some tips in the HK thread. I'll probably play all the most popular ones (the ones available on PC that is) - Salt&Sanctuary 1/2, Axiom Verge, Yoku, Guacamelee 1/2, Vigil. Someone also recommended The Messenger and F.I.S.T. (anyone played?).

Sadly, as a PC master race gaymer, no Metroid or Castlevania games for me.

Also passing up anime stuff like Bloodstained or Ender Lillies for now. Maybe when I run out of other games to play.
 

cvv

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Sadly, as a PC master race gaymer, no Metroid or Castlevania games for me.

If you change your mind, the Master Race has access to all the best emulators.
Shiiit, how did I not think of that? Maybe because my horribru experience trying to emulate Demon's Souls years ago. Wasted half a day trying to run that shit.

Yeah, I'll definitely look into that. Hopefully I'll be able to procure the .isos of the games. Would love to play Dread most of all, hopefully my PC will be up to that.
 

Grauken

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No, you're wrong, it's very specifically about what SotN was doing; it's why SotN gets referred to as the first Metroidvania as opposed to the older games SotN was building on. You didn't need a new term for what Metroid was doing because there was already a term...the game is just an Action Adventure Platformer. Having interconnected stages is a normal aspect of Action Adventure games that goes back to Adventure on the Atari...which itself is playing off older Text Adventure games. You had Adventure in 1980, at the beginning of 1986 Nintendo releases The Legend of Zelda, and then in the summer of that same year they'd come out with a Platformer variant on Action Adventure with Metroid. The thing that set SotN apart is it was a JRPG variant of the old Action Adventure Platformer.

No idea where you get this from, but that's just false. I've been on the net since 1997 and since I encountered the term around 2005 and onwards it was always used as a genre description for games that are like Super Metroid and SotN, never specifically for games that are just like SotN and its RPG elements. You're flat out wrong there

As for why the term was only coined after SotN appeared has due to with the specifity of what Metroid and later SotN were doing compared to similiar but not same 2d action adventures, which is gating content of an open map by abilities. That's what makes them different from other 2d action adventures and once there were more games than just Metroid that did it the term stuck around and since SotN was the second big success to do it, they stuck Metroid and Castlevania together
 
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cvv

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Sadly, as a PC master race gaymer, no Metroid or Castlevania games for me.

If you change your mind, the Master Race has access to all the best emulators.

Some of the best Castlevania metroidvania can be found on Steam



Have those games aged well? For a relative newcomer to the genre like me, coming from the hottest new metroidvanias like Ori 2 or Hollow Knight, isn't it gonna be too much of a "return to prehistory" feeling?
 

Grauken

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Have those games aged well? I understand nostalgia but for someone coming from the hottest new ones like Ori 2 or Hollow Knight isn't gonna be too much of a "return to prehistory" feeling?

I'm not really objective when it comes to them. I would say yes (to aged well), but HK and Ori are just more modern than those so if you expect a similar experience you probably get disappointed
 

cvv

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Have those games aged well? I understand nostalgia but for someone coming from the hottest new ones like Ori 2 or Hollow Knight isn't gonna be too much of a "return to prehistory" feeling?

I'm not really objective when it comes to them. I would say yes (to aged well), but HK and Ori are just more modern than those so if you expect a similar experience you probably get disappointed
Cheers. Mind you I'm not talking about graphix. It's more about gameplay, systems and the like. I just wondered if it's gonna be like going from Civilization 5 back to Civ 1. The first Civ is a great game and an important part of the vidya history but you wouldn't really want to play it seriously today.

I guess I'll watch a few videos and make up my mind.
 

JarlFrank

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Sadly, as a PC master race gaymer, no Metroid or Castlevania games for me.

If you change your mind, the Master Race has access to all the best emulators.

As a PC master race man who doesn't own a controller, I played Super Metroid on an emulator with keyboard only and it plays perfectly fine. Keyboard controls work well for SNES games and performance is smooth as butter.
It's almost like using DOS Box for DOS games.
 

Renevent

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...but I would still recommend Bloodstained: Ritual of the Night.

I started replaying this one, it's IMO one of the best metroidvanias out there. Tons of content, lots of secrets, robust equipment system, tons of ways to upgrade, and the amount of mechanically distinct weapons/attacks is similar to something like Dark Souls. It's also gorgeous looking with beautiful 3D graphics that give more depth the side scrolling layout.

The only thing I hate about it is the cheesy japo characters and dialog, but even despite that it's outstanding. The monsters/bosses look awesome though, which is pretty par for the course I guess for japo looking games lol.

I've also been playing Super Metroid my girlfriend loves watching me play SNES games. I had never really played back in the day and it's surprisingly (well...I guess I shouldn't be surprised given how loved it is) still really fun.
 
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cvv

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...but I would still recommend Bloodstained: Ritual of the Night.

I started replaying this one, it's IMO one of the best metroidvanias out there. Tons of content, lots of secrets, robust equipment system, tons of ways to upgrade, and the amount of mechanically distinct weapons/attacks is similar to something like Dark Souls. It's also gorgeous looking with beautiful 3D graphics that give more depth the side scrolling layout.

The only thing I hate about it is the cheesy japo characters and dialog, but even despite that it's outstanding. The monsters/bosses look awesome though, which is pretty par for the course I guess for japo looking games lol.

But why does it have to be anime :despair:
 

Renevent

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...but I would still recommend Bloodstained: Ritual of the Night.

I started replaying this one, it's IMO one of the best metroidvanias out there. Tons of content, lots of secrets, robust equipment system, tons of ways to upgrade, and the amount of mechanically distinct weapons/attacks is similar to something like Dark Souls. It's also gorgeous looking with beautiful 3D graphics that give more depth the side scrolling layout.

The only thing I hate about it is the cheesy japo characters and dialog, but even despite that it's outstanding. The monsters/bosses look awesome though, which is pretty par for the course I guess for japo looking games lol.

But why does it have to be anime :despair:

Agree that's my biggest complaint and I almost didn't pick it up due the corny ass anime main character. Def recommend it despite that though, it's one of the best metroidvanias out there IMO.
 

Viata

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...but I would still recommend Bloodstained: Ritual of the Night.

I started replaying this one, it's IMO one of the best metroidvanias out there. Tons of content, lots of secrets, robust equipment system, tons of ways to upgrade, and the amount of mechanically distinct weapons/attacks is similar to something like Dark Souls. It's also gorgeous looking with beautiful 3D graphics that give more depth the side scrolling layout.

The only thing I hate about it is the cheesy japo characters and dialog, but even despite that it's outstanding. The monsters/bosses look awesome though, which is pretty par for the course I guess for japo looking games lol.

But why does it have to be anime :despair:
Which makes it even worse when it's not even full 2D. No reason to use anime if you are going with shitty 3D. :negative:
 

Renevent

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That I completely disagree with, the game is gorgeous and the 3d backgrounds adds a lot of awesome depth to the visuals.
 

KeighnMcDeath

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Isn't Shantea 1/2 genie hero a metroidvania?

I still haven't played SOTN but I did finish all the GBA on emulator. I didnn't finish dawn od sorrows because my computer was too slow at thd time to run the enulator correctly.

I never gog back into it.
 

Fowyr

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Nobody knew about wolfenstein until recently when retro gaming became cool.
FFS. I played Wolfenstein 3D bacl in the times on the 286. A lot of my friends played it too.
Your point was that you can't name a genre by a game that didn't invent it.
Wolfenstein 3D was made before Doom
Catacomb Abyss was earlier and it already had everything that was in Wolf3D.
Hovertank was earlier as well.
Hell, even Total Eclipse had shooting sections with mummies and it was real 3D. Wrong genre, though.
Playing these, I can't help but notice that their gameplay is very RPG-ish in many ways. And I'm not even talking about those Metroidvanias that introduce a lot of RPG elements with levelups and all that - just the plain old Super Metroid clones that have you explore an open world, encounter obstacles you can't pass, and discover new abilities that allow you to overcome previously impassable obstacles.

It gives me the same feeling as playing a dungeon crawler like Might & Magic. You can explore the world in any direction you want, but you will encounter areas you cannot pass yet so you have to make a note and return later.
Some FPS had this feeling. Some action games too.
https://rpgcodex.net/forums/threads/cadaver-the-immortal-hillsfar.112434/
Concept of dungeon and its exploration is used in many genres.
 

samuraigaiden

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I dig Metrodvanias in concept, but lately I don't get no satisfaction from mechanical achievements in games (as in, being good at arcade style gameplay). Not long ago I dropped Super Metroid midway through because the wall jump mechanics made me question what I was doing with my life.

The last one I played from start to finish was Momodora: Reverie Under the Moonlight, which is probably the best Brazilian game ever made. I had a good time with that one, pretty hard at times but kept me interested. Lots of dogde rolling required.

I'm not a fan of combos in 2D platformers, but Guacamelee is good for co-op.
 

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