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Alpha Protocol - RPS's impressions

MetalCraze

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Darth Roxor said:
Just like blackjacking in Thief, amirite :roll:
Except in Thief unaccurately doing it would mean that the mission is fucked because you are no superhuman, not mentioning actual missions where making guards notice you leads to insta mission failure.
In Thief being noticed means death, in AP being noticed means that you will just pull out the gun and gun down the enemy.
Stop using games that do it right to protect AP, will you?
AP is a game where shooting everyone will be much easier and more viable than just sneaking past a bunch of guys just to kill everyone else - plus on the level shown in the recent video stealth is impossible due to heavily scripted events where enemies just run at you engaging when you touch a trigger (like hacking PC). Just what stealth are we talking about here?

Skyway argument at its finest. The hacking minigame of one game is a completely unrelated topic when talking about another hacking minigame in another game.
Exactly. It's like saying that combat in AP won't suck because it didn't suck in Doom. And that's exactly what you are saying with your comparison to a game that has absolutely no relation to a topic.

Listen dipshit, it was not shown how the hacking minigame in AP looks in the later parts and how the skills affect it.
True - but as you point out "it is an earlier level" - meaning that he has no trouble with that minigame even without a skill this early in the game - knowing that as you get more skills the tasks become easier - the skill is useless face it.


Yes, you shit at its writing... because the overall game didn't impress you. If you'd find the whole game to be great, but the writing would stay the same, you wouldn't speak a word about it, but right now, you just continue with your 'oh, what else to add to the shit list' mentality.
Well yes - I completed and liked MotB because the actual writing/characters/world design/quests etc. were good enough to make me close my eyes on crappy combat and useless epic level skills.
With AP everything looks bad already in previews. They didn't show a single good thing. You're just butthurt that a shitty game gets bashed and use logic "my god it was better in a game done by other people 10 years ago - it will be better here I no it I no it!!!11". Do you even understand what you are talking about?

Yeah, while you are crying with dead facts "skills don't matter".
Well I will repeat this for the last time - hopefully you will try to use brain instead of your ass, hopefully you won't be an ESF'er this time.
Without a skill you play a twitchy minigame. With a skill you play twitchy minigame.
Without a skill you have no problem killing hordes of enemies early in the game. With a skill you won't have that trouble either.
Thus skills does not matter.

I'm not trying to excuse fuck ups, but pointing out how some of them are irrelevant (such as a shitty beginning that doesn't have to mean the whole game will be shitty, vide: Fallout).
Fallout didn't have a shitty beginning. Fallout 2 did.
Somehow what was shown in AP doesn't look like a tutorial which was the "shitty beginning" in Fallout.
And I pointed at later levels which have exactly the same terrible gameplay, writing and characters. Which means nothing changes.

So what you are saying is that Obsidian specially only idiotic examples of dialogues in their presentations? Answer the question.

uh... WHAT? Some quotes of your strawmen and genius 'conclusions' should be put into encyclopaedias as perfect examples of said things.
This is useless, you are too dumb to have any kind of discussion when you can't even post counter-arguments other than "lol I won't answer your question, I'll better point something about you!"
 

denizsi

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and being able to kill every single NPC in the game.

Except when there will be cinematic cutscenes of the evil guy/girl slowly walking out of the scene and disappear as you're forced to watch like a sheep through a fixed camera.

You know this will happen. It happens in every game with cinematics. Not a single exception.

It's a shame that discussions here on upcoming games has spiraled down to ESF levels. I wonder how long it will take to hear the "MOAR MNOEY FOR X MEANS THEY CAN MKAE MOAR GMAES!!11" idiocy as strongly support.
 

Darth Roxor

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MetalCraze said:
Except in Thief unaccurately doing it would mean that the mission is fucked because you are no superhuman, not mentioning actual missions where making guards notice you leads to insta mission failure.

And who said such missions won't be present in AP? Not to mention that in the last preview it was mentioned that if you get caught into a firefight with stealth gear you're pretty much fucked.

AP is a game where shooting everyone will be much easier and more viable than just sneaking past a bunch of guys just to kill everyone else

Yup, it was also a lot easier to shoot or slash down guards in Thief, Hitman, Splinter Cell and NOLF instead of sneaking past them and making careful plans how to get in and out. Just that was it more enjoyable...?

True - but as you point out "it is an earlier level" - meaning that he has no trouble with that minigame even without a skill this early in the game - knowing that as you get more skills the tasks become easier - the skill is useless face it.

Because as we all know, the difficulty of various tasks in games is set in stone at the very first level and then either stays this way or gets even easier.

With AP everything looks bad already in previews. They didn't show a single good thing. You're just butthurt that a shitty game gets bashed and use logic "my god it was better in a game done by other people 10 years ago - it will be better here I no it I no it!!!11". Do you even understand what you are talking about?

Apparently YOU don't understand what I'm talking about, because I'm not saying 'it will be better than in a game done 10 years ago!!11', I'm saying it 'MIGHT be SIMILAR to a game done 10 years ago!!11'

Without a skill you play a twitchy minigame. With a skill you play twitchy minigame.

Except that you don't know the possible differences.

Fallout didn't have a shitty beginning.

:lol: sigworthy

So what you are saying is that Obsidian specially only idiotic examples of dialogues in their presentations? Answer the question.

uh... WHAT? Some quotes of your strawmen and genius 'conclusions' should be put into encyclopaedias as perfect examples of said things.
This is useless, you are too dumb to have any kind of discussion when you can't even post counter-arguments other than "lol I won't answer your question, I'll better point something about you!"

Sorry chap, but I have no idea what the hell even provoked this utterly stupid question of yours in the first place, and I felt the only possible course of action is ridiculing it.

also,

This is useless, you are too dumb to have any kind of discussion

Sweet, sweet irony.
 

denizsi

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Darth Roxor said:
This is useless, you are too dumb to have any kind of discussion

Sweet, sweet irony.

Darth Roxor said:
Yup, it was also a lot easier to shoot or slash down guards in Thief ... instead of sneaking past them and making careful plans how to get in and out. Just that was it more enjoyable...?

Sweet, sweet irony.

Darth Roxor said:
Fallout didn't have a shitty beginning.

:lol: sigworthy

:lol: sigworthy.
 

Darth Roxor

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denizsi said:
Darth Roxor said:
Yup, it was also a lot easier to shoot or slash down guards in Thief, Hitman, Splinter Cell and NOLF instead of sneaking past them and making careful plans how to get in and out. Just that was it more enjoyable...?

Bullshit. A single guard can take you with one or two hits in Thief. If you run and <s>gun</s> sword your way, you'll be dead pretty fast..

Nah, I remember dicking around in the game once and managed to take down a mob of 5 guards at once with the sword. Just do overhead attacks while backpedalling and they're fucked.
 

Darth Roxor

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Good question. I barely ever use patches in games that don't have gamebreaking bugs.
 

MetalCraze

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Darth Roxor said:
I have no idea what the hell even provoked this utterly stupid question of yours in the first place, and I felt the only possible course of action is ridiculing it.

That's exactly why I had to call you dumb.
But I will explain so even such moron as you should understand.
First you were crying that all that is shown in the previews doesn't say that they game is a piece of shit - and then I was telling you that devs put only the best stuff in the demos - to which you were continuing replying that that doesn't mean the rest of the game won't be teh awsum and finding lame excuses/ignoring obvious - that's why I asked you that question.

Also don't weasel out now from your lies about Thief. Considering that I specifically said that in Thief "running and gunning" is simply impossible because you can even fail some missions if you -touch- a guard.
It's pretty funny how you say that it is ironic because I called you dumb - simply because I always post arguments based on previews and videos while you post inane shit like "AP's minigame won't suck because SS2 minigame didn't"/"it's too early to judge" even though previews of AP are coming out for like 1.5 years now and continue to bring unrelated games with absolutely different gameplays into the discussion and when your arguments fail you go "oh you just hate all games lololol". Think on that.
 

Darth Roxor

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MetalCraze said:
That's exactly why I had to call you dumb.
But I will explain so even such moron as you should understand.
First you were crying that all that is shown in the previews doesn't say that they game is a piece of shit - and then I was telling you that devs put only the best stuff in the demos - to which you were continuing replying that that doesn't mean the rest of the game won't be teh awsum - that's why I asked you that question.

No. You asked whether they intentionally put in idiotic dialogue into their previews. I never voiced any opinion on the quality of the dialogues other than that it's not repulsive but also not magnificent, definitely not idiotic.

Also don't weasel out now from your lies about Thief. Considering that I specifically said that in Thief "running and gunning" is simply impossible because you can even fail some missions if you -touch- a guard.

IIRC, there were maybe two such missions in Thief 2, no idea about Thief 1, so it's also not that much impressive when you take the overall amount of missions into consideration. Even the highest difficulty had a 'don't kill anyone' objective in all missions, but it didn't stop you from blackjacking at will.

It's pretty funny how you say that it is ironic because I called you dumb - simply because I always post arguments based on previews and videos while you post inane shit like "AP's minigame won't suck because SS2 minigame didn't" and continue to bring unrelated games with absolutely different gameplays into the discussion and when your arguments fail you go "oh you just hate all games lololol". Think on that.

Except that your 'arguments' are based on previews as much as on your clairvoyance, and just like this fine strawman "AP's minigame won't suck because SS2 minigame didn't", you keep yapping that "AP's minigame WILL COMPLETELY suck, because. Just becase. Period". Also, I never said that the hacking minigame won't suck. In another thread I stated pretty clearly that I don't like the way it looks. However, if you consider 'it might be harder later depending on the skill' the same as 'HOLYSHITAWESOME!!!!!!!' then I pity you, but then again, you're living in your own little world where everyone is a blinded fanboy and everything is utter shit with no redeeming qualities.


Anyway, I'm done with this thread. I have no idea why I kept bothering so long with this shitstorm in the first place, since the results where easily foreseeable before even starting.
 

elander_

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MetalCraze said:
Fallout 3 got good reviews only from dumb retards who think that cRPG is only about story and C&C and close eyes on that everything in F3 is retarded simply because their first "RPG" was KotOR.

You mean people like you who close their eyes to what Fallout TB combat is? Good point skyway.

MetalCraze said:
And what did they do? So far the only thing Avellone did is raped the shit out of Fallout's setting with New Reno.

Some people say Fallout 2 was only inconsistent only in some places related to the setting but otherwise choices and dialogs are good. Your personal opinion is now proof of anything?

MetalCraze said:
Also a good game? How the fuck do you know it will be good considering that its lead designer says himself that they are targeting morons from ESF? ... ... ...Oh!

Considering the way you misread his quote you have surpassed ESF tards by a mille in stupidity. Keep bitching skyway.
 

MetalCraze

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No I actually read his quote using teh reading comprehension. Of course if you mean that by saying "we try to cater to as wider auditory as possible while giving a few things for the hardcore crowd", he meant something else.

As for F2 dialogs - they sucked hard too. Unless you call /gd/-level writing - quality. Not mentioning tons of lame pop-culture references and lulz a la "LOL blowing toilet!". F2 even had next to none story.
Just because it had C&C which for some stupid reason is the most important thing in RPGs in next-gen crowd circles doesn't make F2 any less of a rape.
I admit that those things seemed good to me too. When I was 15 years old.
 

elander_

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MetalCraze said:
No I actually read his quote using teh reading comprehension. Of course if you mean that by saying "we try to cater to as wider auditory as possible while giving a few things for the hardcore crowd", he meant something else.

Yes skyway you are pulling things out of your ass. Trying to cater to the biggest audience is what Fallout tried to do, it's also what Bloodlines tried to do. Anything is good material to bitch.

MetalCraze said:
As for F2 dialogs - they sucked hard too. Unless you call /gd/-level writing - quality. Not mentioning tons of lame pop-culture references and lulz a la "LOL blowing toilet!". F2 even had next to none story.
Just because it had C&C which for some stupid reason is the most important thing in RPGs in next-gen crowd circles doesn't make F2 any less of a rape.
I admit that those things seemed good to me too. When I was 15 years old.

Because a few odd things in the setting instantly makes everything crap and all dialogs bad. skyway stop bitching.
 

Jasede

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Well, it's like this:

Imagine you have a dish in front of you. It has meat, potatoes, yummy gravy, peas, and so on. But on the plate there are also a few turds.

Of course the turds won't make the peas, the potatoes, etc, worse by themselves. But the dish as a whole suffers.
 

elander_

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Jasede said:
Well, it's like this:

Imagine you have a dish in front of you. It has meat, potatoes, yummy gravy, peas, and so on. But on the plate there are also a few turds.

Of course the turds won't make the peas, the potatoes, etc, worse by themselves. But the dish as a whole suffers.

That's a very bad metaphor but i will go along. Tell me a game you enjoyed and i show you a few turds in it, now tell me how you enjoyed it. No game is without a few "turds".

Fallout 2 is considered a game with a quality bellow Fallout but still a very good game with good choices and consequences. The few "turds" as you call it are more low quality potatoes. You don't have to agree but that's a matter of opinion, not fact.
 

MetalCraze

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elander_ said:
Trying to cater to the biggest audience is what Fallout tried to do
haha what
It's what BG tried to do at that time, not fallout, and thus it suffered hard. Ah but you mean Failout 3.

it's also what Bloodlines tried to do. Anything is good material to bitch.
Yes - and half of the game is awful, namely combat and all connected to it - aka whole levels at times. Thankfully other half of the game makes up for it somewhat. Which can't be said about F2 which was a constant /gd/-level lulz-ride.

Because a few odd things in the setting instantly makes everything crap and all dialogs bad. skyway stop bitching.
A few odd things? Surely you mean like 90% of the game incl. but not limited to - scorpion that played chess, talking plant with high IQ, talking deathclaws, gay marriage, lame mike tyson reference, tribals, mafia, hubologists, chinese city etc etc etc - by the amount of stupidity that Feargus and Avellone put in there F2 can give F3 a challenge.
 

Jasede

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To flip-flop mightily, there also were quite a few really good things in Fallout 2. I suppose it depends on your taste, but I wouldn't say 90% was shit. I think it is more like 50% to me, half of the game.

And yeah, elander, I suppose it boils down to opinion. What might be a barely edible potato might be a turd to me, or you, depending on what we prefer. (Though IMO, it's still much worse than F1, and I'm in retrospect surprised how they came up with F2 after making F1. It's like "hey, F1 was pretty cool. Now let's put in as much silly stuff as we can fit into and see how people like it.")
 

elander_

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MetalCraze said:
It's what BG tried to do at that time, not fallout, and thus it suffered hard. Ah but you mean Failout 3.

Nope. Get a clue.

MetalCraze said:
Yes - and half of the game is awful, namely combat and all connected to it - aka whole levels at times. Thankfully other half of the game makes up for it somewhat.

The hypocrisy.

MetalCraze said:
Which can't be said about F2 which was a constant /gd/-level lulz-ride.

And we are going to judge Avellones qualities based a guy who bitches on the internet and posts mostly nitpicking drivel. Forget everything that Avellones did well including Van Buren concepts because that isn't good for bitching.

MetalCraze said:
A few odd things? Surely you mean like 90% of the game incl. but not limited to - scorpion that played chess, talking plant with high IQ, talking deathclaws, gay marriage, lame mike tyson reference, tribals, mafia, hubologists, chinese city etc etc etc - by the amount of stupidity that Feargus and Avellone put in there F2 can give F3 a challenge.

90% is your bullshit skyway just like most of your posts. Still you are entitled to your opinion. Turning it into a fact and using this to judge someone's work is an exercise of TES tard criticism. Keep bitching to someone who cares.
 

MetalCraze

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elander_ said:
Forget everything that Avellones did well including Van Buren concepts because that isn't good for bitching.
Yes let's now praise Avellone for concepts, something that never became real. And obviously nothing else left to praise him for.
Hey why don't you praise Todd Howard for Oblivion then? They even showed a whole video where a woman studied, then trained with a bow and that fireballed an annoying dog. It was an awesome concept and Oblivion was totally like Ultima-7.
And how about you will remember that Avellone is also responsible for turds like DtU, BG: DA2, half-finished KotOR2 and had a fiasco role in an unredeemable piece of shit that was Lionheart.

90% is your bullshit skyway just like most of your posts. Still you are entitled to your opinion. Turning it into a fact and using this to judge someone's work is an exercise of TES tard criticism. Keep bitching to someone who cares.
Seriously when will I get a normal counter-argument instead of witty comebacks. Every time that your kind has nothing to say - it's always "baaawww skyway".

Jasede said:
To flip-flop mightily, there also were quite a few really good things in Fallout 2.
Yes.
But when I was replaying Fallout 2 only two months after Fallout 1 a few years back even same-ish Fallout gameplay was ruined by a shallow writing, story and infantile lulz-encounters.
 

Fat Dragon

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MetalCraze said:
Yes.
But when I was replaying Fallout 2 only two months after Fallout 1 a few years back even same-ish Fallout gameplay was ruined by a shallow writing, story and infantile lulz-encounters.
Wait, what? Black Isle did writing for Fallout 2? I thought everything was just copy/pasted movie quotes. :D
 

Jim Cojones

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MetalCraze said:
As for F2 dialogs - they sucked hard too. Unless you call /gd/-level writing - quality. Not mentioning tons of lame pop-culture references and lulz a la "LOL blowing toilet!".
The non-lulzy (yes, there is a fair share of them in Fo2, you don't even have to search hard) dialogues with most of the NPCs are as good as in Fo1, if not better, and the most difference is seen in the dialogues of the most important characters. You never see dialogues as interesting as the ones with the Master or with Set but I'd like to see you proving Lynette's or New Reno mafia bosses dialogues aren't decently written and didn't create memorable characters. The dumb character is written well enough to be almost as worthy a playthrough as Malkavian in BL while in Fo it's just "Ugh ungh!" "You're too stupid, you won't be helpful."

And level of interactivity is much more important for dialogues in a computer game than level of writing in classical sense. This is where Fo2 dialogues surpass Fallout. Your actions and reputation or character's skills and primary statistics have much more influence on dialogues in the second game. It is much easier to get to some of the content in Fallout because the right answers are much more obvious and making mistake in dialogues which leads to losing a quest is much more frequent in the second game.

A few odd things? Surely you mean like 90% of the game incl. but not limited to - scorpion that played chess, talking plant with high IQ, talking deathclaws, gay marriage, lame mike tyson reference, tribals, mafia, hubologists, chinese city etc etc etc - by the amount of stupidity that Feargus and Avellone put in there F2 can give F3 a challenge.
What's wrong with tribals? And how come radiation changing animals into huge monsters and experiments creating hulks, people with psychic powers and some horrible abominations are "smart" but when a mutated, talking animals creatures (which would be present also in the first game if not lack of time) are heresy against rational mind?

And a clarification that wouldn't be needed if not Skyway's famous "reading comprehension". No, I don't claim Fallout 2 doesn't have stupid moments. Yes, New Reno is dumb. Yes, San Fransisco is dumb. Yes, the level of writing in the dialogues of more important characters matters more. Yes, overall level level of writing is better in first Fallout.
 

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What's wrong with tribals?

Nothing, as such. The problem is the timeframe. Fallout 2 is set roughly 80 years after Fallout 1. The tribe was founded by the Vault Dweller and some other vault inhabitants + wastelanders - how did they go from intelligent beings into ugalabugala retards in one or two generations?

It's stupid too, 'cos it would've been so easy to fix. Instead of founding the tribals, the Vault Dweller could've just bumped into them, taught them a bunch of stuff and thus becoming their hero. The tribals could've been around for who knows how long.
 

MetalCraze

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What's wrong with tribals? And how come radiation changing animals into huge monsters and experiments creating hulks, people with psychic powers and some horrible abominations are "smart" but when a mutated, talking animals creatures (which would be present also in the first game if not lack of time) are heresy against rational mind?
I think you just answered your own question.
Mutated animals aren't really a sci-fi, though not to such degrees, but when plants gain consciousness and scorpions start to play chess you feel that something is very very wrong.
Also a lack of time? No sorry - they didn't make F1 in one year unlike F2 which apparently had more than enough time for Feargie to add talking plants.

As for other things you mention - important characters are, unfortunately, by far not a majority of the characters of the game. Just because F2 has a few well written characters doesn't mean that it doesn't have piss-poor everyone else.
If you have a barrel of shit, adding a few, even large, spoons of honey won't help much.

Considering mafia bosses - they would fit better in another game, but here they simply don't fit well, and not in a "omg itz a non-canon!!1" way.

What's wrong with tribals? Everything. Just how could people somehow immediately forget that they lived in a hi-tech society in some ~70 years, get shamans and other lulz, even though a comparatively hi-tech society is just a few miles away in the closest neighbourhood. In other words tribals fit here just as well as Megaton that doesn't make any sense.
 

Jim Cojones

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What's wrong with tribals? Everything. Just how could people somehow immediately forget that they lived in a hi-tech society in some ~70 years, get shamans and other lulz, even though a comparatively hi-tech society is just a few miles away in the closest neighbourhood. In other words tribals fit here just as well as Megaton that doesn't make any sense.
Vault Dweller's contacts with advanced technology:
- Vault - a place where he lived for a whole life but after becoming its saviour, he was banished,
- BOS - a band of snobs that wouldn't do anything to help the poorer ones,
- FEV,
- results of using nuclear weapons,
- Glow - a place devoted only to produce technology (FEV, laser and plasma weapons) that helps killing each other more efficiently.

And the only society in a game where people try to live live together helping each other instead of concurring was Shady Sands - the least advanced one. Is it that hard to believe the village he created was even more restrictive than Amishes? 70 years? That's enough for all the people remembering anything before founding Arroyo to be dead.

Kingston said:
Nothing, as such. The problem is the timeframe. Fallout 2 is set roughly 80 years after Fallout 1. The tribe was founded by the Vault Dweller and some other vault inhabitants + wastelanders - how did they go from intelligent beings into ugalabugala retards in one or two generations?
Without an access to technology, separating themselves from the outer world and caring more about learning how to hunt, grow plants, animals, make fire, sewing etc., than preserving any knowledge? I'd even say even 40 years could be enough.

Also a lack of time? No sorry - they didn't make F1 in one year unlike F2 which apparently had more than enough time for Feargie to add talking plants.
And yet the game has quite much cut content like village of talking raccoons and two other groups of raiders. Have you tried to tell anyone in Junktown or Hub about selling human meat? You can't. Maybe because three years of Fallout development were spent also on creating engine and trying to think of a new set of mechanics after the problems with GURPS.

Mutated animals aren't really a sci-fi, though not to such degrees, but when plants gain consciousness and scorpions start to play chess you feel that something is very very wrong.
Probably as wrong as breaking the law of conservation of mass which is a part of both FEV and radiation effects in Fallouts. Or the fact that radiation doesn't lead only to degeneration of your body but also can make you bigger and stronger.
 

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