Dragon Age impressions

[Vault Dweller]

But...

Sorry, no.

Mind telling me how exactly I am wrong, crusader? Inquiring mind wants to know.

Anything for you, Humps.

They probably played the game and saw that it wasn't half as bad as what their eternal circlejerk led them to believe.

But... It is just as bad as the eternal circlejerk led them to believe. Atrocious RTwP combat in its full glory, and writing that takes itself far more seriously than it has any right to. DA's impossibly melodramatic most of the time, and when it finally comes to its senses and tries to make a joke about how stupid it is, the joke just never works. I guess I should put it in a way Gaider would understand: "In the absense of Self-Awareness, Blandness thrives.".

Before I comment, would you mind clarifying a few things for me?

1. Why the combat is atrocious? Is it the RTwP thing? (i.e. you think that RTwP combat is atrocious by definition) Or is it some particular DA design flaw? (in that case, which one and why?)

2. You seem to be upset by the fact that the writing takes itself seriously. Why?

3. Where exactly does DA try to make a joke about how stupid it is and what exactly is stupid about DA?

Thanks in advance.

 

[MetalCraze]

Strong words from a boy who used to praise BG games

I still praise BG2 for showing a proper DnD world and having varied and nicely designed dungeons and terrain locations.

loved the romances in BG2

I did?

had faith in DA developers

Maybe back when there still were no JE and ME and it wasn't meant to be an EXTREME dark and mature game.

and couldn't wait for the team Gizka mod.

I thought it would improve KotOR2. It didn't. What does Gaider have to do with this anyway?

So, tell me, Skyway, when did you stop enjoying Gaider's writing and decided that you're too cool to like it?

I enjoyed Gaider's writing? Just because I said way back that BG2 contained his best writing (compared to what he did later aka NWN) doesn't mean it was a good writing - in fact I pretty much always criticized him for writing stuff about saving the world from ancient evils and including characters like Aeries - we even had a sweet lil' chitchat with him about this here on the Codex if you remember.

Fallout 3 is not a true sequel. It's a sandbox spin-off. This is a fact and I see no reason to ignore it, just like I see no reasons to pretend that it's a sequel and rate it as a sequel. That's what "for what it is" means.

VD you are killing me with your logic. It is a sequel. A shitty sequel. And a shitty shooter game. Failing to admit at least the former is fanboyism.

 

[Vault Dweller]

loved the romances in BG2

I did?

You did.

had faith in DA developers

Maybe back when there still were no JE and ME and it wasn't meant to be an EXTREME dark and mature game.

Nice try, but no. Read the quote above.

and couldn't wait for the team Gizka mod.

I thought it would improve KotOR2. It didn't.

No, you thought it would be actually released.

So, tell me, Skyway, when did you stop enjoying Gaider's writing and decided that you're too cool to like it?

I enjoyed Gaider's writing? Just because I said way back that BG2 contained his best writing (compared to what he did later aka NWN) doesn't mean it was a good writing - in fact I pretty much always criticized him for writing stuff about saving the world from ancient evils and including characters like Aeries - we even had a sweet lil' chitchat with him about this here on the Codex if you remember.

"Good writing" and "writing about X" are two different things.

 

[Grunker]

I have a better explanation.
In your search for a good rpg you people played every game that was labelled as one. ME, DA, FO3, Oblivion, Jade Empire, The Witcher and so on. As a result your tastes, expectations and standards have been dumbed down.
The only people who managed to stay healthy are people like me- who refused to even give a shit any chance. We're the master race. We're Codex's only hope.
Join us!

Most of the ones you claim are responsible fall in the "pirate the game, then buy if good"-category. I haven't bought any of that shit except The Witcher (because it ain't shit). So how am I helping the game companies again? I'm pretty sure they don't check the statistic for piracy during those meetings...

Beth employee: "Oh yes! We've been pirated 22 millions times! Take that, Bioware!"

 

[Vault Dweller]

Fallout 3 is not a true sequel. It's a sandbox spin-off. This is a fact and I see no reason to ignore it, just like I see no reasons to pretend that it's a sequel and rate it as a sequel. That's what "for what it is" means.

VD you are killing me with your logic. It is a sequel. A shitty sequel. And a shitty shooter game. Failing to admit at least the former is fanboyism.

It's a shitty shooter, I agree. Much like Daggerfall is a shitty Die by the Sword game. Was XCOM: Interceptor an XCOM sequel? Just curious.

Fallout 3 was a typical Bethesda game and design-wise it was somewhere between DF and MW. Being angry at it for not being a proper Fallout game is kinda silly.

 

[opium fiend]

This thread is far too long to take at once, I only need to know can you be evil not just for the sake of being evil? So far I haven't noticed, but I'm not that far into the game.

As far as I can tell, evil consists of being a total douche to everyone and killing good people or telling them to go fuck themselves occasionally. So standard shallow evil as usual it seems.

Shit, as I suspected. The option to kill the deserter is almost as retarded as killing the dog, but I hoped things will improve.

Is there an evil ending? Assassination jobs? Anything?

 

[MetalCraze]

You did.

Then I had a shit taste 2.5 years ago. Like I also thought that NWN2 OC was an ok game when I came to the Codex. Then I was given an examples of much better RPGs thankfully.

had faith in DA developers

Maybe back when there still were no JE and ME and it wasn't meant to be an EXTREME dark and mature game.

Nice try, but no. Read the quote above.

Nice try? I said that I did. DA still was a PC exclusive back then and was hyped as a hardcore successor to BGs and there were no dark and gritty mature stuff (not mentioning regens and certainly there was no info that it was just a Sword Coast ripoff) Which is exactly what I just said.

No, you thought it would be actually released.

Yes. And? Many people thought back in 2007 that TG do something. There is a leaked beta which shows what they did you know

"Good writing" and "writing about X" are two different things.

No they are not. Ancient evils which wake up and wreck havoc just because they feel like it and you must join an organization of superheroes fighting them for a third time now = banal shit boring.

Was XCOM: Interceptor an XCOM sequel? Just curious.

Was XCOM: Interceptor called X-Com 3? Or hyped as being a sequel? Or being a sequel because F3 is one.
By following your logic we can find excuses even for X-COM: Enforcer even though unlike Fallout 3 it is a spinoff.

Fallout 3 was a typical Bethesda game and design-wise it was somewhere between DF and MW. Being angry at it for not being a proper Fallout game is kinda silly.

Being angry at Bethesda for raping a good franchise into oblivion? Not.

 

[Grunker]

This thread is far too long to take at once, I only need to know can you be evil not just for the sake of being evil? So far I haven't noticed, but I'm not that far into the game.

As far as I can tell, evil consists of being a total douche to everyone and killing good people or telling them to go fuck themselves occasionally. So standard shallow evil as usual it seems.

Shit, as I suspected. The option to kill the deserter is almost as retarded as killing the dog, but I hoped things will improve.

That's not entirely true, only partly. Some select C&C decisions are pretty varied and not just "I EAT TEH BABI'S LULZ!" However, it seems they chose a few select points in the game, as if those are just in there to defend the C&C-marketing. I've only played 10% of the game so far however...

 

[Korgan]

Wait, wait. Is there actually a PC named Imoen in the game? I thought that was just a nickname for some rogue chick.

 

[vrok]

Like I also thought that NWN2 OC was an ok game when I came to the Codex. Then I was given an examples of much better RPGs thankfully.

Oh? Well here's an example for you:
Dragon Age.

It's WAY better than NWN2 OC ever was. Fact.

R00fles.

 

[opium fiend]

Wait, wait. Is there actually a PC named Imoen in the game? I thought that was just a nickname for some rogue chick.

No, but she looks exactly the same. There is one in every game, but here it's laughable.

 

[Korgan]

Ah, figures. I wouldn't be too surprised if she was a minor NPC, after that "Gather your party and venture forth?". Predictable, but I still lol'd.

 

[Hümmelgümpf]

1. Why the combat is atrocious? Is it the RTwP thing? (i.e. you think that RTwP combat is atrocious by definition) Or is it some particular DA design flaw? (in that case, which one and why?)

It's the first. I never feel like I'm controlling a party in RTwP games, I feel like I'm babysitting them.

2. You seem to be upset by the fact that the writing takes itself seriously. Why?

Because I don't see how you can pull off an "Ancient evil awakens only to be stopped by an elite order of warriors" type of plot with a straight face these days. I just don't. Especially if your name is BioWare, you've been doing plot lines like this since forever and specifically marketed DA as something new.

3. Where exactly does DA try to make a joke about how stupid it is and what exactly is stupid about DA?

The PC occasionally gets some "wacky" lines, like telling an important NPC what grimdark things you've been doing (telling the king you've killed a nobleman in the city elf origin), or asking an important NPC to let you go off the rails. They are never funny because they don't change anything and return you to the trunk of the dialogue tree after a couple of remarks.

As for what is stupid, here's a quick summary: in DA you play a member of an elite organization dedicated to eradicating evil. Not just any evil, mind you, but a very specific and a very ancient evil. Your main enemy is a giant horde of unwashed orcs, called "the darkspawn", led by an evil dragon who is also a devil. In your quest...

You know what? Fuck this. I feel stupid just after typing a little bit more than three sentences.

 

[Vault Dweller]

You did.

Then I had a shit taste 2.5 years ago. Like I also thought that NWN2 OC was an ok game when I came to the Codex. Then I was given an examples of much better RPGs thankfully.

Then you discovered that being an angry cunt is kinda cool, put on that persona and never stopped bitching and hating. You were a nice guy, skyway. Maybe it's not too late to start liking games again.

There is a difference, which you seem no longer aware of, between criticizing flaws and hating everything.

DA ... was hyped as a hardcore successor to BGs and there were no dark and gritty mature stuff

Aint it?

...not mentioning regens and certainly there was no info that it was just a Sword Coast ripoff. Which is exactly what I just said.

Bullshit. It was clear from day one that DA is not an original setting and that it won't deviate from the traditional, FR/LotR path. There is no fucking way you didn't know it. As for the auto-regen, if you kill the hate mode for a second, play the game a bit analyzing how this feature works, you'll see that it's a good fucking feature that makes the game better.

No, you thought it would be actually released.

Yes. And? Many people thought back in 2007 that TG do something.

Pulling the "many people" excuse? How very ESF.

"Good writing" and "writing about X" are two different things.

No they are not. Ancient evils which wake up and wreck havoc just because they feel like it and you must join an organization of superheroes fighting them for a third time now = banal shit boring.

Are you surprised? That's the Bio formula. You liked it in BG, you liked it in BG2, you liked it in the NWN games. And guess what, there is nothing wrong with that. There is nothing wrong with heroic fantasy as a genre. The question is the delivery. Can you come up with proper arguments explaining why DA is lacking in that regard? Yes, it's loaded with familiar concepts, but it does it well.

Was XCOM: Interceptor an XCOM sequel? Just curious.

Was XCOM: Interceptor called X-Com 3? Or hyped as being a sequel? Or being a sequel because F3 is one.
By following your logic we can find excuses even for X-COM: Enforcer even though unlike Fallout 3 it is a spinoff.

We can't unless you can prove (or at least produce some strong arguments), explaining why FO3 is a shitty sandbox game, because that's what it is.

Fallout 3 was a typical Bethesda game and design-wise it was somewhere between DF and MW. Being angry at it for not being a proper Fallout game is kinda silly.

Being angry at Bethesda for raping a good franchise into oblivion? Not.

Being angry at Bethesda for raping a dead, already raped twice franchise and hating Fallout 3 by association because your views are so fucking narrow that your hate clouds your reason? No.

 

[opium fiend]

The King laughing off my admission of the crime just ruined the scene for me. Alright, just don't do it again, you nasty little warden. Fuck, in every dialogue there is exactly one option you can pick in order for the whole thing to make a semblance of sense.

 

[Worm]

I'm really curious as to how people aren't having constant reloads playing this game. Is it just optimal use of cooldowns or something else? Since it seems like there's very little help in positioning, as enemies will just walk right through you. And no, I didn't scour all 29 pages of discussion for something similar to what I said, since it seems like everyone here feels the game is pretty easy.

I had issues with SOME stuff in Bladurs Gate and Fallout back in the day, though never like this. I'm just curious if I'm fundamentally playing wrong, or if going into any fight without double digits of healing poutices is just not how the game is meant to be played.

 

[Silellak]

Then I had a shit taste 2.5 years ago. Like I also thought that NWN2 OC was an ok game when I came to the Codex. Then I was given an examples of much better RPGs thankfully.

Honest question for you - why does it matter if you found better games. Video games are about having fun, right? Clearly you had fun back when you played those games, even if you didn't know about the "better RPGs". Shouldn't that be what matters - the fact you had fun when playing them?

As for what is stupid, here's a quick summary: in DA you play a member of an elite organization dedicated to eradicating evil. Not just any evil, mind you, but a very specific and a very ancient evil. Your main enemy is a giant horde of unwashed orcs, called "the darkspawn", led by an evil dragon who is also a devil. In your quest...

You know what? Fuck this. I feel stupid just after typing a little bit more than three sentences.

Maybe because your summary is bias in order to make it sound stupider than it is? Here, let me try it. Putting it under spoiler tags, just in case there's anyone left who still cares about the pre-world-map plot:

Spoiler

In DA you play a member of an elite organization dedicated towards eradicating a specific evil, and do so by actually embracing some of that evil. Shortly after joining, the entire branch of that organization in your country is wiped out, leaving only you and one other survivor to travel a land torn by civil-war after the betrayal and murder of the current King, who died fighting alongside the very organization you are a part of - thereby making you and your companion wanted men. As the betrayer - also the new reagant - begins to take power and recruit a new army, your band must take the ancient treaties of the Grey Wardens to very different groups, scattered all across Ferelden, and convince them to honor those treaties - despite their current problems - and unite to face the coming darkness.

I'm not going to argue it's a super-original premise, but it's certainly far better than your inaccurate summary. My only real complaint about the story so far (other than some of the obvious cliches) is that it follows the Bioware-standard "Gather X number of Y in a pseudo-non-linear fashion."

 

[Mangoose]

I'm finding certain encounters pretty difficult ~20 hours into the game, Hard difficulty.

Dialogue is kinda meh, and stats in dialogue is pretty shitty, but on the other hand there are a decent amount of choices, both moral and practical. So some tradeoff.

 

[Hümmelgümpf]

SPOILERS

You know what? Ignore everything I've said in this and other threads. Like I said, I uninstalled the game shortly after the Joining and had no idea it would go in this new, admittedly rather cool, direction.

 

[Ch1ef]

1. Why the combat is atrocious? Is it the RTwP thing? (i.e. you think that RTwP combat is atrocious by definition) Or is it some particular DA design flaw? (in that case, which one and why?)

It's the first. I never feel like I'm controlling a party in RTwP games, I feel like I'm babysitting them.

This.

 

[Grunker]

I'm really curious as to how people aren't having constant reloads playing this game. Is it just optimal use of cooldowns or something else? Since it seems like there's very little help in positioning, as enemies will just walk right through you. And no, I didn't scour all 29 pages of discussion for something similar to what I said, since it seems like everyone here feels the game is pretty easy.

I had issues with SOME stuff in Bladurs Gate and Fallout back in the day, though never like this. I'm just curious if I'm fundamentally playing wrong, or if going into any fight without double digits of healing poutices is just not how the game is meant to be played.

So far the difficulty IS above Baldur's Gate's. I would say Fallout was harder though...

What's your party-composition? And what's the stats on your own character?

 

[coldcrow]

I'm really curious as to how people aren't having constant reloads playing this game. Is it just optimal use of cooldowns or something else? Since it seems like there's very little help in positioning, as enemies will just walk right through you. And no, I didn't scour all 29 pages of discussion for something similar to what I said, since it seems like everyone here feels the game is pretty easy.

I had issues with SOME stuff in Bladurs Gate and Fallout back in the day, though never like this. I'm just curious if I'm fundamentally playing wrong, or if going into any fight without double digits of healing poutices is just not how the game is meant to be played.

The game isn't easy if you read easy as simply walking into the fight and clicking all abilities, I guess. Bascially you need to develop disabling abilities and tactics fast. e.g. knock someone down and switch to his next buddy to finish him before the other gets up again. Or the various disabling and debuff spells. Also good to go after the huge damage dealers first e.g. Hurlocks. While I would have LOVED to paly the system as turn-based combat it isn't as bad as I feared it to be.

 

[Vault Dweller]

1. Why the combat is atrocious? Is it the RTwP thing? (i.e. you think that RTwP combat is atrocious by definition) Or is it some particular DA design flaw? (in that case, which one and why?)

It's the first. I never feel like I'm controlling a party in RTwP games, I feel like I'm babysitting them.

Explain.

I think that unlike the previous Bio games, combat is very well done and my party members frequently use their abilities and are able to fight independently. The tactics slots make that even easier. So, what is your problem with DA?

2. You seem to be upset by the fact that the writing takes itself seriously. Why?

Because I don't see how you can pull off an "Ancient evil awakens only to be stopped by an elite order of warriors" type of plot with a straight face these days. I just don't. Especially if your name is BioWare, you've been doing plot lines like this since forever and specifically marketed DA as something new.

You can't claim that the heroic fantasy genre is obsolete. Something interesting and worth reading/playing can always be done with the genre.

Edit: I see that you've already agreed that the game does get interesting, so there is no need to argue this point further.

 

[Silellak]

I'm really curious as to how people aren't having constant reloads playing this game. Is it just optimal use of cooldowns or something else? Since it seems like there's very little help in positioning, as enemies will just walk right through you. And no, I didn't scour all 29 pages of discussion for something similar to what I said, since it seems like everyone here feels the game is pretty easy.

I had issues with SOME stuff in Bladurs Gate and Fallout back in the day, though never like this. I'm just curious if I'm fundamentally playing wrong, or if going into any fight without double digits of healing poutices is just not how the game is meant to be played.

So far the difficulty IS above Baldur's Gate's. I would say Fallout was harder though...

What's your party-composition? And what's the stats on your own character?

Personally I didn't think Fallout was harder than Baldur's Gate, but then I played Fallout when I was older, so maybe that skews my point of view a bit.

 

[Worm]

So far the difficulty IS above Baldur's Gate's. I would say Fallout was harder though...

What's your party-composition? And what's the stats on your own character?

Rogue with high coercion, lock picking, cunning, and dexterity, I guess doing what you want is a major mistake here? I pretty much always have the mage with me, and the rest are melee.

The game isn't easy if you read easy as simply walking into the fight and clicking all abilities, I guess. Bascially you need to develop disabling abilities and tactics fast. e.g. knock someone down and switch to his next buddy to finish him before the other gets up again. Or the various disabling and debuff spells. Also good to go after the huge damage dealers first e.g. Hurlocks. While I would have LOVED to paly the system as turn-based combat it isn't as bad as I feared it to be.

Yeah, I figured I just specced wrong, which is kind of a pain in the ass. It just feels like I'm four boxing a World of Warcraft dungeon with all rogues and no healers. Is there a character editor that will let me respec, or do I just kind of have to start over?

I just thought having lock picking and coercion would let me get some awesome weapons early on, but even with that stuff (and there isn't much) it just feels like the entire combat system revolves around stuns and little else.