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SW:TOR = WoW Killer, now confirmed

Turisas

Arch Devil
Patron
Joined
May 25, 2009
Messages
9,927
http://www.starwarstheoldrepublic.com

The site started accepting beta sign-ups and promptly got raped by the SW fan masses. Should be back up in a few hours if someone cares.
 

Gold

Augur
Patron
Joined
May 18, 2007
Messages
504
Dead State Project: Eternity Wasteland 2
Which is in its own way scary. While I can't remember when they first announced how long they have been working on this. It seems they are going to try to rush for a winter release. (Which is probably best for a new mmo franchise.)
 

lordfrikk

Scholar
Joined
Feb 24, 2009
Messages
158
I think the only way WoW is gonna meet its own demise is by slowly fading away as years pass... which I don't think Blizz is gonna allow and will replace it either with sequel (not likely imo) or by totally new universe MMORPG or by MMORPG from existing universe (Starcraft/Diablo).
 
Joined
Nov 8, 2007
Messages
6,207
Location
The island of misfit mascots
They're making a mistake, methinks, in trying to both take away the grind / keep the single-player heroic experience AND keep 25man raids in. They tried that in the early WoW design and very very quickly ditched it for the raid-focus. The problem is that raiders don't actually enjoy raiding, apart from the few that get the pleasure of commanding the raids and working out the strategies. For the monkeys following vent instructions, they're doing it for the epeen. Which means raiders have to have a gamebreaking gear advantage or they won't do it.

Look at the old balance arguments in WoW. The raiding guilds basically said the same as what I just said. For them, gear progression is the game in mmorpg, and most of the raid leaders hate PvP b/c balance means stuffing up raid gear progression, and utterly freak at the idea of non-raiding gamestyles getting equivalent gear ('they didn't 'earn' it').

And early WoW showed that raiding guilds are much MUCH louder than the non-raiding players, will actively lobby, are the guys that go to the tournaments and the blizzcons, and get invited to events and give ideas for game design...regardless of their % of the playerbase, they're the ones whose voice gets heard.

Bioware was onto a novel thing earlier, when they said that you just have to ignore all the noise coming from that group, and focus on the majority who won't blow through all the content in one 100hour-straight sitting.

Not that I'm saying the raiders shouldn't keep their mmorpg genre. They're the ones who like the genre, they're the ones who actually stuck with it rather than having a short-term addiction, quitting, then bitching about how much they hate it. Moreover, I feel some sympathy due to how singleplayer rpgs have been screwed over - I can understand them going 'this is OUR genre, don't you FPS-players and single-player guys ruin it for us!'. That's basically the same thing we've gotten pissed about with our genre.

But if Blizz really wants to break the mmorpg mold, they need to forget about attracting the raiding guilds. It's just a mutually incompatible style of game, due to conflicting objectives: the raiders want gear progression that reflects their raid progression, so that they are undoubtedly more powerful than anyone who hasn't matched their raiding progression, whilst those wanting something new from mmorpgs don't want to feel like their funding someone else's game whilst getting a gimped character in return for preferring other gamestyles to raiding. Can't please both, and all the voice-overs in the world won't change that.
 

Lyric Suite

Converting to Islam
Joined
Mar 23, 2006
Messages
56,539
SimpleComplexity said:
Here`s my advice:
Make a MMORPG with anime artstyle, you are going to appeal to west and east. Just look at how many people use anime avatars on english gaming forums.

They already did, its called Aion.

The irony about this game is that it seems to have higher production values then Dragon Age.
 
Joined
Aug 5, 2009
Messages
3,749
Location
Moo?
Haven't they gotten tired of the term 'WOW-killer'?

I was after the fifth time I heard it, and WOW just kept chugging along at the top.
 

Lurkar

Scholar
Joined
Feb 22, 2006
Messages
791
Azrael the cat said:
They're making a mistake, methinks, in trying to both take away the grind / keep the single-player heroic experience AND keep 25man raids in. They tried that in the early WoW design and very very quickly ditched it for the raid-focus. The problem is that raiders don't actually enjoy raiding, apart from the few that get the pleasure of commanding the raids and working out the strategies. For the monkeys following vent instructions, they're doing it for the epeen. Which means raiders have to have a gamebreaking gear advantage or they won't do it.

Look at the old balance arguments in WoW. The raiding guilds basically said the same as what I just said. For them, gear progression is the game in mmorpg, and most of the raid leaders hate PvP b/c balance means stuffing up raid gear progression, and utterly freak at the idea of non-raiding gamestyles getting equivalent gear ('they didn't 'earn' it').

And early WoW showed that raiding guilds are much MUCH louder than the non-raiding players, will actively lobby, are the guys that go to the tournaments and the blizzcons, and get invited to events and give ideas for game design...regardless of their % of the playerbase, they're the ones whose voice gets heard.

Bioware was onto a novel thing earlier, when they said that you just have to ignore all the noise coming from that group, and focus on the majority who won't blow through all the content in one 100hour-straight sitting.

Not that I'm saying the raiders shouldn't keep their mmorpg genre. They're the ones who like the genre, they're the ones who actually stuck with it rather than having a short-term addiction, quitting, then bitching about how much they hate it. Moreover, I feel some sympathy due to how singleplayer rpgs have been screwed over - I can understand them going 'this is OUR genre, don't you FPS-players and single-player guys ruin it for us!'. That's basically the same thing we've gotten pissed about with our genre.

But if Blizz really wants to break the mmorpg mold, they need to forget about attracting the raiding guilds. It's just a mutually incompatible style of game, due to conflicting objectives: the raiders want gear progression that reflects their raid progression, so that they are undoubtedly more powerful than anyone who hasn't matched their raiding progression, whilst those wanting something new from mmorpgs don't want to feel like their funding someone else's game whilst getting a gimped character in return for preferring other gamestyles to raiding. Can't please both, and all the voice-overs in the world won't change that.

Uh...what?

I know plenty of people who play WoW, raid, and love it. They like getting together with a big group of their friends and playing the game together. Shock and horror.

And WoW has become more and more "casual" friendly the longer it goes on. They got rid of the big mega-raids in the first expansion, and it's been getting less and less raid-heavy with each expansion and patch.
 

racofer

Thread Incliner
Joined
Apr 5, 2008
Messages
25,608
Location
Your ignore list.
WoW has grown beyond Blizzard's ability to control it. It acts like a self aware conscious being, devouring people's souls as it feeds upon their life force. Even if Blizzard was no more, WoW would live on, feeding by itself until nothing else exists.

Soon every Human, Angel and Djinn will be consumed. What happens next? Nobody knows.
 

LazyD

Liturgist
Joined
Dec 27, 2008
Messages
700
So much for my long shot dream of this being skilled based and sandbox..

oh well.. another shitty mmo...
 
Joined
May 6, 2009
Messages
1,876,046
Location
Glass Fields, Ruins of Old Iran
Emotional Vampire said:
Actually Blizzard is ending WoW after the next update and making a new MMORPG

02-04-09-myfico-experian-termination-large.jpg
 

Elzair

Cipher
Joined
Apr 7, 2009
Messages
2,254
I do not think Bioware's idea is going to work. WOW (and MMORPGs in general) have five elements that comprise the core of their addictive nature.

1. Exploration
2. Combat
3. Character Building
4. Questing
5. Auctioning

The problem is that several of those elements tie into the exploration element. I do not think you could make a successful MMORPG without a making a huge world to explore. The problem is that Bioware has never been very good at making that kind of game. Baldur's Gate 1 is the Bioware game with the best exploration, but even it pales in comparison with Morrowind or Gothic (and definitely with Ultima or Might & Magic). Their more current games are much smaller. Even Gaider has said that Bioware does not make exploration games.

Now, from what I have read, it seems they are focusing more on their story aspects than exploration, and I think they are going to fall on their face. To keep their players interested in subscribing, they will have to churn out the equivalent of a new KotOR every month or so, and that is simply not possible. Even Icewind Dale took four months to develop!

It looks like Bioware may be toast. The problem with MMOs is that they tend to destroy the company that makes them.

But let’s keep in mind that Blizzard, before the merger, had become a shell of what it once was. When World of Warcraft came out, many of the core Blizzard guys left. An interview in 2004 had a manager for Ultima Online asked what he thought the success of World of Warcraft meant. Directly, he said, “I believe it will destroy Blizzard as a company.” And what he is referring is that the company has to become service centric rather than product centric, and how the internal changes just completely change the company. Since World of Warcraft, Blizzard has been expanding too fast.

Oh well! Good riddance to bad rubbish I say!
 

Elzair

Cipher
Joined
Apr 7, 2009
Messages
2,254
The likely scenario is that they will try to create new stories for a while, but eventually they will be unable to keep up with the demands of users, and they will give up and try to graft WoW elements onto it, and that will simply alienate their fanbase.
 
Self-Ejected

Excidium

P. banal
Joined
Aug 14, 2009
Messages
13,696
Location
Third World
Elzair said:
I do not think Bioware's idea is going to work. WOW (and MMORPGs in general) have five elements that comprise the core of their addictive nature.

1. Exploration
2. Combat
3. Character Building
4. Questing
5. Auctioning

The problem is that several of those elements tie into the exploration element. I do not think you could make a successful MMORPG without a making a huge world to explore. The problem is that Bioware has never been very good at making that kind of game. Baldur's Gate 1 is the Bioware game with the best exploration, but even it pales in comparison with Morrowind or Gothic (and definitely with Ultima or Might & Magic). Their more current games are much smaller. Even Gaider has said that Bioware does not make exploration games.

Yes, some old guys from Bioware are working on story, dialogues and all that fluffness but the team that takes care of the "mmo elements" are people that came from Mythic, Origin,Sony, Blizzard and other companies. They have experience. It's not like because a company never made a game from a different genre they are doomed to fail if they try.

Blizzard anyone?

I don't really expect a lot from TOR.Iit will be just a generic MMO, the difference is that you'll level as a single player/coop game.
 

Zed

Codex Staff
Patron
Staff Member
Joined
Oct 21, 2002
Messages
17,068
Codex USB, 2014
Morgoth said:
If Bioware thinks they can lure MMO players by story-driven and full VO'ed cutscenes crap, then they are wrong.

WRONG! Funcom did just that. Well, that and tits. Oh yeah... Well, nevermind.
 

Chaotic Lulz3r

Liturgist
Joined
Aug 4, 2009
Messages
209
Location
Lulzania
Talby said:
. What the fuck is the point in making a Star Wars game if you're going to set it so far in the past that the world doesn't even resemble Star Wars anymore? (except for light sabers, woo)

The idea that there might be a "point" in anything related to Star Wars just about killed me. It's a fucking Space Opera with some charm and entertainment value, not Shakespeare. Get a life, or at least some perspective, ffs.

On topic, EA/Bio + Lucas seem smart enough not to even try to create a WoW killer. If they play their cards right, SWTOR can get an enormous subscriber base of its own, without getting a single user away from WoW.
 

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