Interview DoubleBear's ZRPG - Know your Meth Dealer

[Jora]

So that was the reason they cancelled the aliens rpg?

No, that's the story of the first version of Apha Protocol. As far as we know, Aliens was cancelled because of Sega's financial problems.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Rumor has it that the Aliens RPG was TORN all over again.

The game was in development for 2+ years and we haven't seen a single screenshot. That has to tell you something.

"How far had development gone?

Feargus: It had gone pretty far. A lot of it was us building our own internal technologies, and part of that was an understood thing before we got to the game itself. We'd gotten fairly far."

If two years later all they have to show are some technologies and "understanding", no wonder the project got canceled. Also, considering that Colonial Marines was in development, the game's only chance of seeing the light of day was having a very strong role-playing side to avoid any "it looks just like CM only crappier" comparisons, and that's hard to pull off in the Aliens setting.

 

[Wirdschowerdn]

I heard a different story. Josh said Obsidian would be ready to show off the game to the public, but Sega refused for some reason.
Also, the reason I think why Aliens got canceled is not because they were behind, but because Sega just didn't like how the game came together.

 

[Vault Dweller]

the game's only chance of seeing the light of day was having a very strong role-playing side to avoid any "it looks just like CM only crappier" comparisons

 

[Jora]

JE did appear to be very positive about Aliens throughout the development. He's not the kind of guy who wants to build excessive hype or give customers false expectations, so I always assumed the project was going relatively well.

Edit: For example, when making IWD2 he engaged in a lot of discussions and seemed passionate about his work but didn't say too many nice things about the game and always wanted to keep expectations low.

 

[bhlaab]

Both Aliens RPG and Colonial Marines were cancelled. It was Sega cleaning out the license because they hit a financial speedbump.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Both Aliens RPG and Colonial Marines were cancelled.

Link?

 

[Wirdschowerdn]

CM was not canceled.

 

[Syraxis]

they hit a financial speedbump.

I wonder why.

 

[bhlaab]

Well okay, I think the terminology used for CM was indefinite hold.

 

[bhlaab]

I stand corrected. It was dropped and then brought back.

But it's clear that the new AvP is the highlight of the aliens lineup (it's a sequel and has very current movie tie-ins which help). CM was probably safer because it was an FPS. An Aliens RPG is weird and untested, so it would nautrally be the first on the chopping block.

 

[Vault Dweller]

If it was anything like Alpha Protocol, it would have been very hard to tell the difference in gameplay.

 

[Brother None]

Brian Mitsoda looks like a mobster.

Brian's a huge dude. If he'd like to be, he could probably look intimidating enough to scare the snot out of anyone.

Funny how quiet he is compared to Annie, too

Wait, were we talking games?

 

[Lockkaliber]

Rumor has it that the Aliens RPG was TORN all over again.

Any links to that?

 

[Vault Dweller]

A private conversation with an Obsidian employee. Not that this particular rumor is hard to believe, all things considered.

 

[Lockkaliber]

Hm, cool. I'm curious though, do you think it could have had anything to do with the USD$235,424,993 financial loss Sega reported some time before Aliens was canceled?

edit: I mean, that's a lot of money.

 

[Brother None]

Hm, cool. I'm curious though, do you think it could have had anything to do with the USD$235,424,993 financial loss Sega reported some time before Aliens was canceled?

I think you're missing VD's point. He's saying Aliens RPG was in development hell anyway, and that's why Sega chose to include it in its needed scratches. Would Sega have canceled it without the huge posted losses? Maybe, I dunno. But there's a reason it picked Aliens RPG as one of its expendable projects and not - say - Colonial Marines.

 

[Kingston]

A private conversation with an Obsidian employee. Not that this particular rumor is hard to believe, all things considered.

Well it's hardly a rumor if you heard it directly from an employee.

Anyways, are they working on ZRPG full-time? Probably not, I doubt they've got any funding, unless they've got some savings. If not, where are they working right now?

 

[Vault Dweller]

@ Lockkaliber:

Hard to say. Here is how I look at it.

First, just because someone told me something in a conversation doesn't make it a fact, which is why I didn't say "guys, I know for sure!!!" and filed it under "rumor" instead. When it comes to business, things get very subjective and many employees like to bitch about how things are done where they work and how everyone is an idiot but them. So it may or may not be true, but:

- While Feargus is a genius when it comes to getting great deals and licenses, managing hasn't been his strongest side. TORN did happen under his supervision. NWN2 was fucked. The lead designer left in the middle of the project and Sawyer had to go in and fix that clusterfuck.

- Feargus' comment I mentioned earlier doesn't indicate that much was done. If the game was almost ready, which it probably should have had after 2 years, I doubt that he would have limited his response to "we got the tech part down and developed tons of understanding."

- AP sounds awesome on paper, but then we have the product evaluator's comment that the game barely feels like an RPG and that Mass Effect was more of an RPG. Now we can assume that the guy is tard or we can assume that the game is a bit too heavy on the shooter side (see the link in my previous post). Considering that things got really quiet after that comment and the game was pushed to 2010, missing the holiday season, it's hard not to think that some serious tweaks were required, which, again, points at mismanagement. Not to mention that all Mitsoda work, including characters, was thrown out and Obsidian had to start from scratch for some reasons.

- Obsidian seems to be taking all the projects it can, which is a mistake (i.e. mismanagement). Pretty much at any given time they work on 3-4 projects. They aren't big enough to do that.

So, yes, it's very easy to believe the mismanagement theory. As for Sega, if the game was almost good and ready and could have been released this Christmas, it would have sold very well and made Sega tons of money. Yes, they've lost a shitload of money, but they haven't left the publishing business, have they? The 235 mil loss is nothing considering that their revenues in 2008 were US $4.45 billion. It's hard to believe that they paid for the Aliens game for 2 years and then, when it was almost ready, decided to kill it. The only conclusion is that the game was far from ready after 2 years of work, which usually implies mismanagement, and what was shown didn't inspire much confidence.

 

[Lockkaliber]

@BN I could think of other reasons than it being horrible. Like CM being a mainstream FPS made by a reasonably well-known dev, and Crucible was an RPG by a relatively unknown dev that has a bad rep in mainstream gaming media.

I do see his point however, but I think it was probably a mix of a lot of things, like that huge loss of money, the state of the game and calculations based on future profit.

edit: @VD didn't mean to come of as flippant in my first response, but the way I see it we knew next to nothing about the game and one of the only things we actually knew was that sega made a huge loss at the time.

 

[Vault Dweller]

A private conversation with an Obsidian employee. Not that this particular rumor is hard to believe, all things considered.

Well it's hardly a rumor if you heard it directly from an employee.

It's an opinion.

Anyways, are they working on ZRPG full-time? Probably not, I doubt they've got any funding, unless they've got some savings. If not, where are they working right now?

Brian is working on the game full time and is very, very committed to it. There is quite a lot to show already, but that's not my call, obviously.

 

[Vault Dweller]

I could think of other reasons than it being horrible.

Didn't say it was horrible.

The biggest issue - the way I see it - is that it's hard to make an Aliens RPG that won't be a shooter with RPG elements, which would make the difference between it and a proper shooter very minor and not in the RPG favor.

Imagine Bloodlines where you don't talk to vampires but shoot them on sight. Sure, you talk to other characters, but the moment you step outside, the game turns into a shooter and no amount of conversation with team mates would change that.

I do see his point however, but I think it was probably a mix of a lot of things, like that huge loss of money, the state of the game and financial calculations.

I can assure you from my experience that Sega's loss of a few hundred mil is very minor and wouldn't have affected anything but the weakest projects. Atari lost more (319 mil) and its revenues are much, much smaller.

 

[Darth Roxor]

The biggest issue - the way I see it - is that it's hard to make an Aliens RPG that won't be a shooter with RPG elements, which would make the difference between it and a proper shooter very minor and not in the RPG favor.

Imagine Bloodlines where you don't talk to vampires but shoot them on sight. Sure, you talk to other characters, but the moment you step outside, the game turns into a shooter and no amount of conversation with team mates would change that.

Which could be said the same about a zombie RPG, don't you think?

 

[Lockkaliber]

I could think of other reasons than it being horrible.

Didn't say it was horrible.

The biggest issue - the way I see it - is that it's hard to make an Aliens RPG that won't be a shooter with RPG elements, which would make the difference between it and a proper shooter very minor and not in the RPG favor.

Imagine Bloodlines where you don't talk to vampires but shoot them on sight. Sure, you talk to other characters, but the moment you step outside, the game turns into a shooter and no amount of conversation with team mates would change that.

I do see his point however, but I think it was probably a mix of a lot of things, like that huge loss of money, the state of the game and financial calculations.

I can assure you from my experience that Sega's loss of a few hundred mil is very minor and wouldn't have affected anything but the weakest projects. Atari lost more (319 mil) and its revenues are much, much smaller.

It was big enough to make the news at the very least, and made them shut down like 50% of their arcades all over the world IIRC. Point taken nonetheless, I don't know enough about the issue to continue the discussion.

As for the "it's hard to make an Aliens RPG without it turning into a shooter"-argument, the exact same logic could be applied to a Zombie RPG. I know Crucible was supposed to be an action RPG though, but I don't think it's very hard to come up with a scenario for interesting role-playing in the Aliens setting.

 

[Vault Dweller]

The biggest issue - the way I see it - is that it's hard to make an Aliens RPG that won't be a shooter with RPG elements, which would make the difference between it and a proper shooter very minor and not in the RPG favor.

Imagine Bloodlines where you don't talk to vampires but shoot them on sight. Sure, you talk to other characters, but the moment you step outside, the game turns into a shooter and no amount of conversation with team mates would change that.

Which could be said the same about a zombie RPG, don't you think?

Yes and no. The important differences:

- ZRPG is a survival RPG and is not designed as a zombie shooter (noise generates more zombies and eventually you'll be overrun), while I'm sure that the Aliens RPG was designed to let you kill as many aliens if you want should you choose to do so.

- ZRPG is an indie game so Brian can do whatever he wants without worrying about the market and appeal to teenagers. Obsidian can't afford that. Not attacking them, but stating the obvious. I'm sure that Avellone could have made an awesome Aliens game if he didn't have to sell it to suits.

- ZRPG isn't competing with zombie shooters.