whatusername
Scholar
Fallout doesn't have any story? I consider "Man sent outside of his vault to find water chip" a story.
Fallout does not have any story. Neither good, not bad.
Lumpy said:The slave-trader was questline-essential, and she should be unkillable.Claw said:What he says is irrelevant since his actions contradict it. Oblivion is utterly restrictive. It does exactly what I don't want, offer the player pre-written stories the player can choose to follow or not.Gambler said:That's what Todd Howard says.
Really, bringing up the Toddler must be the most pathetic move I can imagine in this situation, so I guess I should have anticipated it coming from you.
I argued in favour of what? Killing all NPCs. I argued against what? Developers focussing on telling "their" story. Oblivion does what? Make all NPCs unkillable to protect the developers' "awesome" story.
In this post I don't see anything supporting your point that questline-essential NPCs should be unkillable.Lumpy said:Here's an example: the slave trader in Tel Aruhn in Morrowind. She did not seem essential at all, and players had reasons to kill her - to free her slaves.
Now, why should killing her prevent me from doing the main quest? Does it even make sense? You kill a random slave trader, so you can no longer buy a slave for the village chief? (stupid quest, btw) You could just go to another slave trader.
On the other hand, if you go and kill Caius Cossades, should the game keep you from doing it? It has a predictable, realistic consequence, so it shouldn't be prevented at all.
Paranoid Jack wrote:
So that should equate to a hell of a lot of variety in the plot and story-line.
Yep.
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So this requires a lot of different avenues for the story/plot to unfold. And if Iron Tower pulls this off we will see that happen and be amazed how we all were able to do things differently or had different out-comes when dealing with a quest-line or obstacle.
Pretty much. Often solving quest A a certain way opens up another way to handle quest B, which you would never see if you handle quest A differently or do quest B first (the game is non linear).
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I hope the story-line and options are as varied as humanly possible (for a four person team).
They are.
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So is it reasonable for any of us to request they make AoD so that we can kill whomever we damned well please?
All NPCs are killable. The only question is "Are you a bad enough dude to save the president?"
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So I guess we need VD to give us the final answer and put an end to all this debate. Will a player be able to kill every single NPC in the game and still complete the main quest or story-line?
Yes.
It's a main quest, not a story.So the Vault Dweller having to find the Water Chip and stop the Master isn't a story?
No, it does not mean that. It only means that Fallout is not perfect. Get over it.Because if that's the case, then it means that "good stories" are secondary when it comes to "good RPGs."
It's a main quest, not a story.
All that is part of the setting.Alright then, what about all the other background information that surrounds that quest?
RPGs are about playing a role, i.e. making choices that express the personality you've made up for your character. Without a good storyline you have neither motivation to act, nor a framework that fills your actions with meaning.how that means that "good stories" presumably the ones like Deus Ex, as you've used it as an example, are necessary for good RPG design.
It was.Paranoid Jack said:Sweet! I would have to assume that was a very early design decision.
I hate those forced events the most.I'm one of the those people who while playing every single cRPG I have bought has occasional tried to kill certain NPCs. Only to find they were invincible or due to game design when the NPCs hit-points reached zero it would trigger something in game that basically was a slap on the hand telling little Johnny that he can't kill Farmer Joe so stop trying.
There are plenty of reasons to kill a lot of people if you are good too.I am stoked now. Since playing an assassin or evil character type I will now be able to kill almost anyone... well depending on my characters stats and cunning of course.
There is no telepatic alert system, there is an alert radius. If the guards nearby, they will investigate, if not...Please, just tell me there is no telepathic alert system ...
You are free and clear. No fame, no title, no hard feelings.if I kill the King just because I am an evil bastard and I get away with it undetected am I free and clear
Vault Dweller said:You are free and clear. No fame, no title, no hard feelings.if I kill the King just because I am an evil bastard and I get away with it undetected am I free and clear
There are consequences, but being a "free spirit" you may or may not be affected. For example, killing Antidas triggers Teron's takeover by another House. The exact effect would depend on the place you've chosen for yourself in the gameworld.GhanBuriGhan said:Vault Dweller said:You are free and clear. No fame, no title, no hard feelings.if I kill the King just because I am an evil bastard and I get away with it undetected am I free and clear
Shouldn't there still be consequences? An investigator asking dangerous questions? An increase in guard patrols? Other high profile NPC's hiring more guards?
RPGs are about playing a role, i.e. making choices that express the personality you've made up for your character. Without a good storyline you have neither motivation to act, nor a framework that fills your actions with meaning.
Let's say a few NPCs attack you and some other NPC. Will running away say something about your character? No, because the whole situation is meaningless. Whatever your choice is, it adds nothing to your role. On the other hand, chosing between helping Paul to fight with men in black, or running away says a lot about what kind of JC Denton you are. That is the value of a good story.
The only thing it really tells is that Vault Dweller is a computer game character. High risk, low plausibility, no significant rewards in sight, no personal ties. Classics.On the other hand, choosing whether or not to save Tandi, help the bandits, or even kill all of the bandits reflects on what kind of Vault Dweller you're supposed to be.
...tells nothing specific about player character. Who is that NPC? How is he related to you? What kind of force threatens to kill him/her?Leaving an NPC to die