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Preview BioShock - the best game of E3

Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
Developer
Joined
Jan 7, 2003
Messages
28,044
Tags: BioShock; Irrational Games

BioShock is getting a lot of love and attention at E3. After watching the E3 demo GameSpot says that Bioshock is everything they hoped it would be, and IGN claims that it's the best game of the show: <i>Bioshock is about choice. It's about exploration, problem solving, and survival. It's also about scaring the crap out of you. If you're wondering what the best game at the show is, this may very well be it.</i>
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<a href=http://www.gamespot.com/pc/action/bioshock/news.html?sid=6150533>GameSpot Demo impressions</a>:
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<blockquote>What surprised us most during our demo was exactly how well Irrational has managed to map the gameplay concepts of System Shock 2 onto this totally different, totally unique and original new setting. Levine says the team basically wants to give the player far more to do than he or she can handle in terms of abilities, paths, and general options for tackling a given situation. Thus BioShock holds the same promise of open-ended scenarios that can play out in surprising and delightfully random ways based on how you choose to make use of your myriad available tools.
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The free-form character building seen in Shock 2 will also make its return here. But where Shock 2 had nanotech-enabled skill upgrades for your futuristic soldier, in BioShock you'll gain "plasmids," which are biological augmentations that function in essentially the same way. Your plasmids will be interchangeable, so you can run with a few powers for a while, then swap some of them out and try others at the next opportunity. Those opportunities will come, at least in part, when you find one of the cheekily named "Plasmi-Quik" machines mounted on Rapture's walls, evidence of the highly capitalistic society which are accompanied by sickeningly cheerful branding that must have been used to sell the plasmid lifestyle to the city's inhabitants before their downfall.
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At the risk of hyperbolizing, or sounding like the fanboys we are, or whatever, BioShock is basically everything we hoped it would be, given its lineage. The game looks to capture and improve upon all the gameplay elements that made System Shock 2 so compelling, and it looks and sounds great (and unsettling) doing it. Just as exciting was Levine's description of the game as being all about choice--not just choice of gameplay, but choice of morality, as you'll be faced with difficult and ambiguous choices minute to minute. We're awaiting further details on BioShock with unfettered zeal, and we'll bring them to you as soon as we get them. Stay tuned.</blockquote>
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<a href=http://pc.ign.com/articles/707/707583p1.html>IGN preview</a>:
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<blockquote>Irrational mentioned they're focusing more on interesting, emotional enemy A.I. rather than advanced squad tactics. Like with the Big Daddy, we're to expect lifelike, authentic behaviors rooted in more complex motivations than blind, murderous rage. Another enemy type we saw, the Splicer, was much more aggressive than the cumbersome Big Daddies. These enemies hopped around erratically, sometimes stood on the ceiling, and slashed around hooks on the ends of their hands. Capable of quick charges, the Splicers were the biggest threat encountered in the demo. These mangled female forms in ratty green robes had abused too many of Rapture's genetic enhancements, driving them nuts.
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To combat these fierce foes, only had one weapon was available. Best described as a shotgun, the weapon was a cobble of rusted cans, spare parts, and cogs, making for a uniquely rudimentary yet attractive piece of machinery. All of Bioshock's weaponry can be modified, making it useful against a range of targets. This particular weapon took two kinds of ammunition that we saw: armor piercing and anti-personnel. Whereas the armor rounds were effective at wiping out mechanical enemies, they were frustratingly ineffective against the Splicers. It took about six or seven shots to cut up a Slicer with armor rounds, whereas it took two to shatter its life with the antipersonnel variety. When playing, players must exploit strengths and weaknesses like this to help conserve ammo, of which there's far from an inexhaustible supply.
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Further into the demo Irrational entered a bar, flipped on the lightswitch, and was immediately shot at by a standing turret gun. Like the shotgun adorned from cans, the turret was equally rudimentary; a desk chair with a machine gun roped to it. Taking cover behind a bar, it was possible to grab a few bottle off the counter to replenish health. A downed register yielded some Adams. Like those objects, almost every item in Bioshock's game world can be inspected or interacted with, adding to the immersion factor. To escape the turrets deadly fire, it was possible to initiate a speed burst implant, sending us flying across the room to an open door, and safety. At the stairway's end some armor piercing shells were found, which were highly effective at taking out the turret gun.</blockquote>Now THAT sounds like a next generation game. It's hard not to get excited.
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Rivo

Novice
Joined
May 11, 2006
Messages
91
At the risk of hyperbolizing, or sounding like the fanboys we are, or whatever, BioShock is basically everything we hoped it would be, given its lineage.
Oh dear, what a complete fucking moron.

Irrational mentioned they're focusing more on interesting, emotional enemy A.I. rather than advanced squad tactics. Like with the Big Daddy, we're to expect lifelike, authentic behaviors rooted in more complex motivations than blind, murderous rage.
Isn't this the same shit that every developer is crazing about? Getting major -insert random WW2 game- flashbacks.
I translate the first part for the narrow-minded :

Irrational (Yes. It's underlined.) mentioned they're focusing more on heavily scripted A.I. rather than running arround mindlessly.
These mangled female forms in ratty green robes had abused too many of Rapture's genetic enhancements, driving them nuts.
Oh noes! Mutants! Brilliant.
Like those objects, almost every item in Bioshock's game world can be inspected or interacted with, adding to the immersion factor.
No preview is complete with the i-word.

Altough some things sounded fine, I hate those E3 pre-pre-previews *kuch* Oblivion *kuch*. Shown by developers who are first-deep into their game and are blind for any critic, and previewed by crazy fanboys who can't believe they made sequel to their game they've been jerking off to for way too long.

First post by the way, Hi all.
 

geminito

Liturgist
Joined
Sep 24, 2003
Messages
144
VD likes THIS one? I never thought his opinions would be surprising.

Still sounds like an action-packed FPS with traces of RPG to me.
 

Perishiko

Scholar
Joined
Jan 8, 2006
Messages
135
geminito said:
Still sounds like an action-packed FPS with traces of RPG to me.

Ah yes, but it sounds like an FPS with a bit of strategy, and RPG elements. I look at it as a "different" game. By the sounds of it, it is a little intriguing though.
 
Joined
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Messages
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geminito said:
VD likes THIS one? I never thought his opinions would be surprising.

Still sounds like an action-packed FPS with traces of RPG to me.


What is so surprising about it?
This game indeed looks like it could be a worthy spiritual successor to System Shock 2.
But honestly, I don't give a shit about what IGN or those other morons say about it, be it positive or negative. They are morons, no matter if they happen to agree with my opinion on a game or not.

Still I'm looking forward to this game very much, I trusting irrational to pull off something great, be it only artisticly and visualy - because the screenshots look amazing.
 

Drakron

Arcane
Joined
May 19, 2005
Messages
6,326
I did not like that we get DX2:IW again, it does not matter what plasmids you selected siince you can just swamp then for anothers without consequences.

Freedom is not about doing everything you want, when you want and not having consequences, also with that design in mind its too damn easy to forget about implementing diferent paths because "the player can always go back and pick the power we want to be used".
 

FrancoTAU

Cipher
Joined
Oct 21, 2005
Messages
2,507
Location
Brooklyn, NY
Drakron said:
I did not like that we get DX2:IW again, it does not matter what plasmids you selected siince you can just swamp then for anothers without consequences.

Freedom is not about doing everything you want, when you want and not having consequences, also with that design in mind its too damn easy to forget about implementing diferent paths because "the player can always go back and pick the power we want to be used".

Agreed, that tidbit was the one thing that concerned me from the E3 previews. I'm hoping that the guy just wasn't very clear in descibing it. Otherwise, i think BioShock sounds really promising.
 

GhanBuriGhan

Erudite
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
1,170
I liked the original system shock much better than the sequel, somehow it didn't achieve the sense of place the original had. The setting in this one sounds very nice, that alone may make it worthwhile. Nothing wrong with a SS2 or DX clone, if it's well done. And it's nice to see "choice" iused as a PR buzzword for a change :)
 

Mr.Rocco

Novice
Joined
Feb 28, 2006
Messages
65
Wait a minute. Am I only one seeing this? It's another console game pretending to be a pc game, ala dudu ex; invisible war and Oblivious. When was the last time console-pg game turn out to be good?
 

Old Scratch

Liturgist
Joined
Nov 19, 2004
Messages
190
Mr.Rocco said:
Wait a minute. Am I only one seeing this? It's another console game pretending to be a pc game, ala dudu ex; invisible war and Oblivious. When was the last time console-pg game turn out to be good?

As far as I know, they had originally intended it to be PC only, but got bought out by some company(excuse the vaguness) and had to make an Xbox version too. Might be some hope that it's geared more towards the PC then Xbox unlike those other games you mentioned, but who knows really? Not like there's anyway to get a straight answer until the game is released.

I'm one of those fools who didn't play the System Shocks, even though they seem to be highly regarded by people with discerning tastes, so I don't know what to think about this one. Hopefully it will be something I can get into.
 

REX

Novice
Joined
Mar 5, 2006
Messages
16
Location
A flat country in Scandinavia
Seems nice, but as i was searching for the official site i found a review from the gaybox360 official mag, that kind of make me doubt what this will become in the end, if its also comming for the box of evil mainstreaming.

and how many fucking times have I been declared user nr. one trillion by some retarded commercial.
 

obediah

Erudite
Joined
Jan 31, 2005
Messages
5,051
GhanBuriGhan said:
I liked the original system shock much better than the sequel, somehow it didn't achieve the sense of place the original had.

I'm in the same boat. For me it probably has something to do with playing the original when it was released as opposed to years later.
 

Zomg

Arbiter
Joined
Oct 21, 2005
Messages
6,984
Some of the things that are being said are worrying me. A lot of this stuff makes it sound like a skinned, easier, mass-market version of SS2 - the ammo dynamics, the plasmids/nanos, the voice logs, etc. I've already played SS2; if a scary, omnipresent character taunts me in a voice with a few filters applied to it, I'm going to be really disappointed. The other thing is the talk about being able to reboot the choices you've made in your character's abilities, which is terrible and will lead to one-path design unless it's expertly attenuated somehow.
 

WouldBeCreator

Scholar
Joined
Feb 18, 2006
Messages
936
As a less hardcore gamer, I've got to say, the new plasmid approach sounds appealing to me, although maybe they should exact some charge (in a renewable resource). Maybe for a second playthrough, having locked powers is ideal, but when I played SS2 and Deus Ex, I always felt like I was choosing powers without any real context and wound up always regretting the choices I made, especially in SS2. SS2, I think, suffered from that phenomenon called the "tyranny of choices" (too many choices make people unhappy, even though they ought to be pleased with more freedom). Every time I took one cool power I felt like I was forgoing twenty.
 

Zomg

Arbiter
Joined
Oct 21, 2005
Messages
6,984
Well, I imagine it could be done well, but it's something to be wary about. It doesn't seem to match the setting (swapping around ...mutations?) and it could easily dynamite the gameplay and difficulty curve (Hey, a robot - let's go put in the anti-robot juice; Oh, back to monsters, back to the original) and also lose that character-player mixing of identity that is partially a result of the player having an element of authorship in the character.

On the other hand, it would be nice to have a way of choosing a "build" through experience in an SS/DX-type game rather than trawling manuals and FAQs to find out what everything really does. I can imagine a few good systems for that offhand without sacrificing too much good stuff.
 

Mantiis

Cipher
Joined
Jan 12, 2006
Messages
1,786
I'm one of those fools who didn't play the System Shocks, even though they seem to be highly regarded by people with discerning tastes, so I don't know what to think about this one. Hopefully it will be something I can get into.

The second system shock has aged VERY well so I urge you to get a copy because it is an amazing game.

it would be nice to have a way of choosing a "build" through experience in an SS/DX-type game rather than trawling manuals and FAQs to find out what everything really does

I can understand your point but to be able to interchange your upgrades would take away from the finality of your descision and the repurcsusions of said descision on how you play the rest of the game. And as someone said earlier being able to interchange your upgrades changes the problem solving of situations so there might be a tendency by the developers to think that: "we dont need 3 ways of getting by this bit if we put an upgrade station around the corner here".
 

Zomg

Arbiter
Joined
Oct 21, 2005
Messages
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Well, like I said I can think of several ways to hybridize a swappable/permanent system to get the best of both worlds. For example, say you can pick a power, swap it essentially at will, but to get the most out of it you have to lock it in permanently - the power might be hobbled or resource-inefficient while swappable. Or, make it so you can't learn a new power until you've locked the current one in. So in that way you can balance mediocre versatility against powerful specialization, that type of thing.

There is also the typical solution, which would be to make swapping expensive in some way (and given the SS2 model where everything is finite, opportunity cost matters). That's what MMORPGs and MUDs typically do, a "respec". Obviously it takes a light touch to balance that cost properly - too much (say, losing a lot of permanent power) and people will just restart, too little and you'll get the swap-for-every-enemy problem and a general feeling that character choices are moot.

The skill selections in SS2 are pretty piss-poor. Standard guns are absurdly overpowered relative to other options, maintenance is indispensible, and several skills are near-useless, like repair. It's also very easy to waste points or resources due to hidden information about the game. For example, if you don't know about the abundant one shot repair and upgrade modules you could easily overinvest in either of those skills, or screw yourself by not knowing that there are more health replenishers in the game than you could ever need, while ammo is always very restricted (which means you should upgrade your damage ASAP, so you can lower your ammo expenditure per enemy). So, you can see how I might be a little suspicious of Irrational in the balance department.
 

Section8

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All in all, I think it sounds really fucking promising. Irrational would rate right up there on my "most respected" developer list, and most of the details we've been hearing sound really promising.

I do share the concern of swapping out Plasmids nullifying character choices, but we'll wait and see. Like Zomg says, there are some good ways to balance it, and then that's yet another layer of choice if they opt for it. The "weapon familiarity" of Silent Storm comes to mind as a simple mechanic doing something similar.
 

xemous

Arcane
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Messages
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Location
AU
Now THAT sounds like a next generation game. It's hard not to get excited.

All this was in System Shock 2, only the best game ever made.
 

Hazelnut

Erudite
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Zomg said:
Well, like I said I can think of several ways to hybridize a swappable/permanent system to get the best of both worlds. For example, say you can pick a power, swap it essentially at will, but to get the most out of it you have to lock it in permanently - the power might be hobbled or resource-inefficient while swappable. Or, make it so you can't learn a new power until you've locked the current one in. So in that way you can balance mediocre versatility against powerful specialization, that type of thing.

I really like that idea, maybe even with a decreasing usfullness of a temp-upgrade over time (with some kind of psudo-tech rationale of course) so that the player can get some usfull info on why they might want to perma-select the power without trawling the net for some walkthough that gives enough detail.

The swap cost approach is okay, but as you say, would have to be finely balanced.
 

The Internets

Scholar
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Jan 13, 2006
Messages
105
gamespot said:
Levine suggests that there may be characters in the game that will reward you if you decide to protect the relatively helpless little sisters---yet if you can kill off one of these tiny worker bees without being noticed by the heavily armed and highly protective big daddies, you'll have committed the perfect crime. Unlike in, for instance, The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion, killing one of these children won't magically make all the guards in the world aware of your deed and hostile to you--it's what happens in the moment that affects what will happen next (and whether you'll be attacked by the game's security systems).

Nice. Oblivion finally shows it's true worth--as a catch all example of how not to design games. Sweet.
 

WouldBeCreator

Scholar
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Messages
936
Isn't one solution just to make the reconfigure stations fairly rare and have each area present a variety of challenges, rather than a homogeneity? You only run into the "I'm in monster territory, better take monster-killing powers!" if you have territories that are only monsters or only robots, or zones that are heavily skewed toward hacking rather than toward gunplay and vice versa. I just think the player should be able to experience (and experiment with) a number of different builds on a single playerthrough.
 

Zomg

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WouldBeCreator said:
Isn't one solution just to make the reconfigure stations fairly rare and have each area present a variety of challenges, rather than a homogeneity? You only run into the "I'm in monster territory, better take monster-killing powers!" if you have territories that are only monsters or only robots, or zones that are heavily skewed toward hacking rather than toward gunplay and vice versa. I just think the player should be able to experience (and experiment with) a number of different builds on a single playerthrough.

I think "rareness" is pretty difficult to achieve, assuming the map structure is similar to SS2, which was made of small, well-interconnected nonlinear maps. If reconfigurers a're as rare as those chemistry rooms or the hospital beds of SS2, that's still maybe 30-45 seconds away at most. Even if there were only one or two of them in the game, there will be many stretches of game time in which you're in relative proximity to a reconfigurer. Providing sufficient heterogeneity to make trips that short strategically unfit is a big order, and even then the only friction to prevent reconfigurations is your patience. Think of playing, using some generalist build, and running into the same enemy a few times over just a few "rooms" (perhaps laid out that way for thematic reasons) - in the back of your head, you'll know that you're wasting resources or having a hard time by not specializing against them, but that reconfiguration room is a loading screen away, so...

That's the anatomy of bad design, and it still attenuates the sense of authorship.
 

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