Preview Lionheart ph4t l3wt #5 at RPGDot

[Saint_Proverbius]

Tags: Lionheart: Legacy of the Crusader

<a href="Http://www.rpgdot.com">RPGDot</a> has posted it's <a href="http://www.rpgdot.com/index.php?hsaction=10053&ID=560">PH4T L3WT #5 article</a> which covers some of the nifty things you can obtain in <a href="http://www.reflexive.net">Reflexive</a>'s <i>waiting for <a href="http://www.vivendiuniversal.com/">Vivendi</a> to pimp it properly so it can be released</i> CRPG, <a href="http://lionheart.blackisle.com">Lionheart</a>.
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<blockquote><b>Sword of Kublai Khan</b>
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Grasping this sword gives the wielder a feeling of power and unrivaled domination. The blood of thousands stains this blade and this shadowy weapon gives +2 to Luck and +10 to the wielder's One-Handed Skill. Its dark history and enchantments may also make others react negatively towards its owner. The blade does 4-13 points of slashing damage.</blockquote>
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The other two lacked the ph4t-ph4ct0r.
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[MF]

Bah. I don't like the idea of Stat enhancing items. Base stats should be that, base stats.
Increasing Luck does not tickle my fancy.

 

[Psilon]

In Lionheart did Kublai Khan a lucky whupass sword decree,
Where Reflexive's Eric Dallaire ran,
Through cranky gamers' forums, man,
Away from Fallout 3.

(Apologies to Coleridge.)

I agree, MF, stat-enhancing items are bad, but at least Luck isn't directly related to survivability. A few extra criticals probably won't save you if your only decent item is a sword. Given the perversion of SPECIAL into pausable real-time and skill-requiring items, a mere +2 to LK isn't so bad. Hell, Power Armor gave that much to ST, so as long as this sword isn't early-game loot I'll give them the benefit of the doubt on this one.

 

[Spazmo]

Luck depends on what the devs do with it. There might be a number of encounters that rely on luck.

Stat modifiers like this are worrying. In Fallout, the only stat-enhancing item was power armor (drugs are temporary and don't count here), and you had to earn that. I know that these uber items are balanced by uber monsters and enemies, but that just turns the level playing field into a plateau... ten thousand feet up.

 

[Greenskin13]

(Apologies to Coleridge.)

Being dead for over a 150 years, I don't think he'll mind too much.

And I hope Lionheart doesn't become one of those "race to boost your stats" games, so I'll agree with Psilon and MF.

 

[Eric Dallaire]

In Lionheart did Kublai Khan a lucky whupass sword decree,
Where Reflexive's Eric Dallaire ran,
Through cranky gamers' forums, man,
Away from Fallout 3.

(Apologies to Coleridge.)

I agree, MF, stat-enhancing items are bad, but at least Luck isn't directly related to survivability. A few extra criticals probably won't save you if your only decent item is a sword. Given the perversion of SPECIAL into pausable real-time and skill-requiring items, a mere +2 to LK isn't so bad. Hell, Power Armor gave that much to ST, so as long as this sword isn't early-game loot I'll give them the benefit of the doubt on this one.

We prefer conversion over perversion, but if that's what you want to call it...

Do we have stat enhancing items? Yes, and more than just luck. Some are permanent, like the Khan's sword that's mentioned above (well, as long as you have it equipped) and some are temporary like potions or alcohol.

We've maintained for quite awhile that we will be breaking the 10 stat barrier with magic. Depending on your philosophy, dynamic stats can be good or bad. We know it's different from Fallout, but we wanted the system to have stats that could be changed. Some of the more powerful weapons when equipped will give you advantages for skills, derived attributes, or in more uncommon cases stats.

Aside from the argument that you can't go over 10 in Fallout, what is the major problem with this? Since Fallout was a world grounded in real physical laws, you wouldn't expect many things to change the fundamental aspects of a man in a short period of time - i.e. drinking a potion and gaining the equivalent of a point of strength. High science items like Power Armor nearly mimic magic, so any stat bonuses could be explained. In Lionheart, and in other magic based games, the genre allows for superhuman jumps in physiology and intellect through the use of magic. Its a game conceit that is commonly employed for this type of game and we think it's appropriate.

From my perspective, this adds an additional element of decision as you accumulate items. Do I want to keep carrying around this powerful shield that adds to my unarmed skill, or keep the shield that adds to my strength. As encumberance mounts, you'll have to make choices about which items to keep or sell. Stats are obviously powerful things to modify which is why when our random generator goes 'shopping' to generate an item, it costs a lot more to create an item with stat bonuses. Specifically scripted Quest items, like the Khan's sword, can also raise stats so that they remain useful through a larger portion of the game.

 

[triCritical]

Do I want to keep carrying around this powerful shield that adds to my unarmed skill, or keep the shield that adds to my strength. As encumberance mounts, you'll have to make choices about which items to keep or sell. Stats are obviously powerful things to modify which is why when our random generator goes 'shopping' to generate an item, it costs a lot more to create an item with stat bonuses. Specifically scripted Quest items, like the Khan's sword, can also raise stats so that they remain useful through a larger portion of the game.

I would be careful with the power armor analogy. One of the things I believe Fallout 2 almost forced you to do is pick up some power armor. I really hope LH will not be a game that forces me to get a specific UBER item so that it makes the finale considerably easier. Especially if I feel that I need it because I am encumbered. I never understood why developers has always thought that people should have to carry more toward the end of the game, and if so they should have thought of better ways of managing rather then forcing armor on them.

 

[Eric Dallaire]

Do I want to keep carrying around this powerful shield that adds to my unarmed skill, or keep the shield that adds to my strength. As encumberance mounts, you'll have to make choices about which items to keep or sell. Stats are obviously powerful things to modify which is why when our random generator goes 'shopping' to generate an item, it costs a lot more to create an item with stat bonuses. Specifically scripted Quest items, like the Khan's sword, can also raise stats so that they remain useful through a larger portion of the game.

I would be careful with the power armor analogy. One of the things I believe Fallout 2 almost forced you to do is pick up some power armor. I really hope LH will not be a game that forces me to get a specific UBER item so that it makes the finale considerably easier. Especially if I feel that I need it because I am encumbered. I never understood why developers has always thought that people should have to carry more toward the end of the game, and if so they should have thought of better ways of managing rather then forcing armor on them.

If I read this correctly, you're hoping that you don't need one specific item to win the game. This isn't the case in Lionheart. In fact, the best armor in the game, a certain set of magical plate mail, can be a hinderance for some characters - it really hampers sneak and makes you very susceptible to lightning, which hurts against traps and casters. You can complete the game as a wielder caster with a completely different set of weapons and items than a tank warrior loaded for war.

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

We've maintained for quite awhile that we will be breaking the 10 stat barrier with magic. Depending on your philosophy, dynamic stats can be good or bad. We know it's different from Fallout, but we wanted the system to have stats that could be changed. Some of the more powerful weapons when equipped will give you advantages for skills, derived attributes, or in more uncommon cases stats.

I think the problem is that it's more of a Diablo thing, where items make the player. That's well and good in something like Diablo, but when it comes down to it, there should be a physical limit to things. With SPECIAL, that limit is 10. The idea of greatly going over 10s with items boosting your physique boils down to munchkinism.

Raising skills is an odd choice too. Raiding things the skill might determine is a better choice. It's much better to make a sword +5% to hit than it is to make it +5% to Sword Skill. Magic or no, you're not going to instantly learn better swordsmanship by holding a magic sword. However, the sword itself might be attracted to enemies, but that's not the same thing, is it?

Aside from the argument that you can't go over 10 in Fallout, what is the major problem with this? Since Fallout was a world grounded in real physical laws, you wouldn't expect many things to change the fundamental aspects of a man in a short period of time - i.e. drinking a potion and gaining the equivalent of a point of strength. High science items like Power Armor nearly mimic magic, so any stat bonuses could be explained. In Lionheart, and in other magic based games, the genre allows for superhuman jumps in physiology and intellect through the use of magic. Its a game conceit that is commonly employed for this type of game and we think it's appropriate.

Magic itself must manifest itself within physical laws as well, though. If you drink a +1 Strength potion, you are temporarily physically stronger, right?

There's also a difference between magic and plausible magic, especially given that there must be a supernatural to natural transition, because physics has to apply somewhere for that magic bonus to work.

Just saying, Hey, it's MAGIC! It doesn't have to make sense! is a rather one dimensional train of thought. It's intellectually lazy. It does, in fact, have to make a bit of sense because there are rules that govern it even in a game. A fireball has a set damage potential based on the caster's abilities and how close it is to the target. That's because there's physicality to the fireball. It's size, how many BTUs it's cranking out, how far it can sustain itself, and so forth are all physical parameters.

From my perspective, this adds an additional element of decision as you accumulate items. Do I want to keep carrying around this powerful shield that adds to my unarmed skill, or keep the shield that adds to my strength. As encumberance mounts, you'll have to make choices about which items to keep or sell.

But at the same time, it lessons the decisions you have with perks. Do I take this Increase Strength perk, or do I just buy a ring that does it?

Stats are obviously powerful things to modify which is why when our random generator goes 'shopping' to generate an item, it costs a lot more to create an item with stat bonuses. Specifically scripted Quest items, like the Khan's sword, can also raise stats so that they remain useful through a larger portion of the game.

One interesting question is why you'd want them to remain useful throughout the game? Buying the next better sword is a good thing for a player to work towards, and buy or find. If you get a sword that's just utterly great close to the beginning, there's not much point to having the money to buy a great sword because you already have it.

 

[Eric Dallaire]

I think the problem is that it's more of a Diablo thing, where items make the player. That's well and good in something like Diablo, but when it comes down to it, there should be a physical limit to things. With SPECIAL, that limit is 10. The idea of greatly going over 10s with items boosting your physique boils down to munchkinism.

Definitions of munchkinism vary from game to game. Every system has some room for this, even the Special system. Whether being a munchkin is a bad thing or not is a personal opinion. In Lionheart, you can min/max if you desire, but you can also roleplay a character that's not all about stats. I don't think going over 10 equates to the type of munchkinism you're talking about. We use 10+ to check for extraordinary requirements - it's simply an expanded scale of the attribute system that you can achieve by using magic.

Magic or no, you're not going to instantly learn better swordsmanship by holding a magic sword.

And you know this because you've held a magic sword? The difference is not so great. A +5 to hit on a sword can be translated into a certain percentage of a skill. The skill is used to check to see if you hit. Ergo, there is a relationship.

Magic itself must manifest itself within physical laws as well, though.

This is a matter of personal taste. Some people like their magic more fantastical than others. I can't really argue against your opinion on this.

Just saying, Hey, it's MAGIC! It doesn't have to make sense! is a rather one dimensional train of thought. It's intellectually lazy. It does, in fact, have to make a bit of sense because there are rules that govern it even in a game. A fireball has a set damage potential based on the caster's abilities and how close it is to the target. That's because there's physicality to the fireball. It's size, how many BTUs it's cranking out, how far it can sustain itself, and so forth are all physical parameters.

I know this is a pet peeve of yours, but there are plenty of examples of magic in mythology that have no basis for physics or natural laws. Why does Merlin age backwards? How does Zeus turn into a bull? I agree with you to a point. There are certain consistencies that must be obeyed in a game. Spells for the player must behave strictly according to formulas, for the most part, so that the character can learn to depend on his magic. But magic that is found or experienced does not have to conform to rules. If the Khan added some magic to his sword that makes the wielder luckier, why is that such a problem in a fantasy based game where magic breaks the laws of reality?

But at the same time, it lessons the decisions you have with perks. Do I take this Increase Strength perk, or do I just buy a ring that does it?

True, this is a concern. But I think magic items and perks can be complimentary without making the other obsolete. If you were fortunate enough to find a sword with +1 strength, you may not have to take the Strength perk that adds a point to the stat. Then again, you may want another point in the stat so you take it anyway. Some items may bump up a stat, allowing you to take a perk you might not have taken without the item. I see the items and perks working in concert with each other. Some items are almost as powerful as perks, most aren't, but a few rare ones are even more powerful.

One interesting question is why you'd want them to remain useful throughout the game? Buying the next better sword is a good thing for a player to work towards, and buy or find. If you get a sword that's just utterly great close to the beginning, there's not much point to having the money to buy a great sword because you already have it.

Not throughout the game. We just don't want the major quest items becoming obsolete too quickly. They eventually will become less powerful than later stage items. But some items might always have some specific utility - a charm that grants speech might be handy to keep around, or a fire resistance ring when you know there are fire monsters down the line, etc.

 

[Walks with the Snails]

<b>Sword of Kublai Khan</b>

Grasping this sword gives the wielder a feeling of power and unrivaled domination. The blood of thousands stains this blade and this shadowy weapon gives +2 to Luck and +10 to the wielder's One-Handed Skill. Its dark history and enchantments may also make others react negatively towards its owner. The blade does 4-13 points of slashing damage.

Dark history and enchantments? Wasn't Kublai Khan trying to be the kinder, gentler Mongol overlord?

I can see Saint's point about bestowing skill bonuses with items, too. Some things would make sense, like enchanted tools that raise your skill in smithing when you use them. Think of stuff in Fallout like lockpicks and the Stealth Boy if it makes you feel better. For something that raises your sword skill, it would seem like just giving it a bonus to hit would be better, though. Just for an example, I don't think it would make much sense for a dual-wielding character with a magic sword in his main hand to get the bonus for the weapon in his off-hand. Maybe if there was a specific enchantment put on it to make dual-wielding less awkward, but not as a general rule.

 

[Psilon]

ome items might always have some specific utility - a charm that grants speech might be handy to keep around, or a fire resistance ring when you know there are fire monsters down the line, etc.

I think this goes back to triCritical's complaint about the massive arsenals most people have by the endgame. Since a sizable chunk of players tend to conserve potions, stimpacks, Mentats, etc. until absolutely necessary (in other words, quickloaded forty times and still haven't beaten the encounter or else in a final boss fight), we usually end up with at least four of every item. I beat Fallout 1 with at least fifty stims left in my inventory because I preferred sleeping for a month to "wasting" thirty caps' worth of healing supplies.

Look at the average inventory near the end of, say, BG2. Even though any fire-using enemies could be steamrolled while blind, poisoned, and entangled by this point, the player will almost certainly have a truckload of potions and other stat enhancers just in case. Imoen had enough enchanted arrows in her pack to equip a small army for months, just in case I ran into some uberdemon that required +3 cold arrows for maximum damage. When I did run into the uberdemon, the arrows stayed in the quiver, because I didn't need them; rather than (correctly) conclude that I had done enough sidequests to waltz through the encounter, I figured I'd need them later because this was the easy enemy!

While it's very frustrating to have one-use keys and other obvious disposal points (think keys in DivDiv, or weaponry in SNES-era Squaresoft games), I think encouraging the player to hoard every magical item in case he might need it is just asking for frustration with the inventory system.

It's probably too late to balance this kind of feature, but I suggest an item accumulator. Got two rings of fire resistance, an amulet of charisma, and seventy bazillion gold? Plunk 'em all into Ye Blender Of Magick and retrieve a ring that gives you the equivalent of 1.25 rings' worth of fire resistance, the ability to tell dirty jokes to royalty without repercussion, and far fewer inventory management hassles.

 

[EEVIAC]

True, this is a concern. But I think magic items and perks can be complimentary without making the other obsolete. If you were fortunate enough to find a sword with +1 strength, you may not have to take the Strength perk that adds a point to the stat. Then again, you may want another point in the stat so you take it anyway. Some items may bump up a stat, allowing you to take a perk you might not have taken without the item. I see the items and perks working in concert with each other. Some items are almost as powerful as perks, most aren't, but a few rare ones are even more powerful.

This is perhaps a major concern of mine - that perks and stat altering items can be combined too easily, thus negating the importance of perks. Perks are harder to gain and should be worth more.

I always felt ridiculous in one RPG (sort of) in particular, buying two rings - one boosted INT or Charisma, and the other gave me an armour class bonus, swapping between the two as situations required. The problem is there was no penalty, the stats I chose initially were rendered rendundant almost. One almost didn't need to specialize because you could get a ring or a charm that will increase the stat if needed.

I guess what I'm most wary of is being able to walk down three character paths at the same time, without penalty. If too many items change stats, the role becomes focused on an amalgam of the equipment and clothes he wears, rather than the character themselves.

 

[Walks with the Snails]

I think this goes back to triCritical's complaint about the massive arsenals most people have by the endgame. Since a sizable chunk of players tend to conserve potions, stimpacks, Mentats, etc. until absolutely necessary (in other words, quickloaded forty times and still haven't beaten the encounter or else in a final boss fight), we usually end up with at least four of every item. I beat Fallout 1 with at least fifty stims left in my inventory because I preferred sleeping for a month to "wasting" thirty caps' worth of healing supplies.

Heh, so I'm not the only one who does that. The funny thing is, I can bring myself to use up "expendable" stuff IRL to some extent, even though I'm generally a skinflint, but I'm a hardcore packrat when it comes to games. To some extent you just have to fight it. I remember the game Vay for Sega CD kind of helped me, because there was this boss about halfway through that you flat out weren't going to beat without using healing potions, so it forced me to look at things in a different way. I still have a habit of selling all my potions etc. to buy permanent items, even when it's not that advantageous. It's usually just the only way I can bring myself to actually use it, though.

For people out there with a more rational approach, I don't think there's anything wrong with providing expendable items, though. The only problem is us packrats usually don't have enough outlets to reward our thriftiness. It would be nice if there were super-nice, super-expensive permanent items or permanent stat-boosters that you're never going to be able to afford unless you counted every damn penny the whole game and didn't waste anything. As it is, I usually finish games with a king's ransom or come up with my own rules for buying stats (with a character editor) if there's not an outlet for something like that already provided.

 

[Rosh]

Magic or no, you're not going to instantly learn better swordsmanship by holding a magic sword.

And you know this because you've held a magic sword? The difference is not so great. A +5 to hit on a sword can be translated into a certain percentage of a skill. The skill is used to check to see if you hit. Ergo, there is a relationship.

Ugh...the application theory in this game is making me quite glad I'm not considering buying it at this time and is turning me away from it.

The + to skills directly, that leads to further problems if you're going to have stacking considered for the requirements of other items. If that is so, it may lead to a good number of places where stat bugs may arise, including one where infinite or obscene amount in a stat or skill may be accomplished if done in the right order.

Therefore, it is always best to work on a sub-modifier rather than inscrease on the base, and I'd be suspect about the effects of the +2 luck as well.

Back to the application logic of the +10 to skills, let's go back to basic design school and discuss the what, there, and how.

What: +10 to sword
Where: on magic sword
How: gives skill to the person wielding it

Implementation: Wielding the sword gives +10 skill to the person wielding it, suggesting that they knowingly become better at swordplay. Issues arise when they remove the sword, leading to either a forced "forgetting" of said extra ability, potentially a problem with other magic/skill-based items in losing their own requirements in turn, and having to develop the subroutines to check for each of them in turn, potentially leading to a minefield of bugs.

Solution: The item aids rather than directly affects, calculated to affect a sub-stat of the skill directly to the sub-stat or in stacked/bigger-than/less-than modifier, from where the requiring situations would then use it from. In other words, it gives an "effect" for some criteria, but doesn't lead into a mess that comes from toggled modifications.

 

[Psilon]

Heh, so I'm not the only one who does that. <snip> For people out there with a more rational approach, I don't think there's anything wrong with providing expendable items, though.

I'm not complaining about consumable items quite as much as I'm complaining about item obsolescence. I held on to stimpacks in FO because, despite my shiny Hardened Power Armor, I kept taking stimpack-sized damage. I could also spend 2 APs to heal myself completely, without the later damage of superstims. As a result, stimpacks provided a handy panic button: if low on HP, break out the needles. I didn't finish Throne of Bhaal with twenty leftover healing potions from BG1, because I used them up as they were needed and, due to delays per item rather than per inventory session, they were less efficient than Potions of Uber Healing. So rather than conserve them, I drank 'em and upgraded them to better vintages.

My main beef is with stuff like, say, +2 Cloaks of Protection, +4 Vs. <Alignment>. Assume that the player is intelligent enough to distinguish evil monsters from the unicorns and whatnot. Given that, why make the player constantly swap out cloaks as he finds new encounters? For a small penalty, make it possible to trade in the Evil and Good editions for, say, a +3 Cloak of Protection In General.

It would be nice if there were super-nice, super-expensive permanent items or permanent stat-boosters that you're never going to be able to afford unless you counted every damn penny the whole game and didn't waste anything.

That's the advantage of the item accumulator. If you keep tossing in every item rather than using it solo to slightly greater effect, you'll finish the game with the fabled Armoire of Invincibility. On the other hand, the dilution effect means that mega items (Ring of +90% Fire Resistance) should be worn solo for full effect; chucking that Ring of +90% FR into the vat-o'-magic might only contribute +20% FR/-20% CR to the result, and you could probably scale the effects by PC level as well.

It's like the Transmute spell from Dungeon Siege, one of the few things that game got right. You won't get the same cost/benefit ratio as hunting down a truly legendary item or selling these things in town, but it's a hell of a lot more efficient than becoming a pack mule and obsessing over equipment. Or, for the Diablo II players, it's like the Horadric Cube. Put six wimpy potions in, get one stronger potion out. The new potion heals less than the six combined, but it takes up far less space and works quicker.

 

[Section8]

a charm that grants speech might be handy to keep around, or a fire resistance ring when you know there are fire monsters down the line, etc

That line kind of worries me. Having items that give you speech bonuses or other skills for that matter can be easily swapped in and out, making initial character choices far less significant. Who needs to create a diplomatic character when they can magical enhance their diplomatic skills? A great deal of the charm of Fallout was that you couldn't adopt a completist attitude and try to do every single quest in the game, you instead took those quests which fitted your character. Great for roleplay, and keeps Fallout in a category safely away from dull squad based "tactical" games like Baldur's Gate. The character shouldn't be doing something because he knows it has XP rewards, he should be doing something for motives that are plausible within the game world. Altering your character with magical enhancements just so you qualify for a certain quests is utterly lame.

 

[Sol Invictus]

I honestly don't see the +2 enhancement to Luck to be that much of an imbalance. The +2 to strength provided by Power Armor in Fallout and the +4 to strength provided by Power Armor Mk2 in Fallout 2 were far worse - especially if you played through the game once and decided simply to create a character with a base of 4 strength, knowing full well that you'd be able to wield miniguns and sniper rifles after attaining the Power Armors. After all, you'd get access to those weapons (except in Fallout, where you got the Sniper Rifle in the Hub - a long while before you finished the glow and got power armor) around the same time as you would get Power Armor.

In any case, it all comes down to the way Reflexive handles the Luck statistic and/or if 2 stat points make a huge difference.

I have but one problem with the sword - why does it offer the wielder luck? I've no problems with stat increasing items if they're properly handled, but I'd like for some of those abilities to have a reason or explanation behind them. I'd understand if the sword added a point of endurance to the wielder, as an empathic 'expression' of the Khan's ability to take a whole lot of pain. But luck?

As with everyone else I too hope that Lionheart doesn't turn out to be a game based on levelling up.

 

[chrisbeddoes]

I do not like +stats to equipment .

Why ?

Because when you created a char with some stats you chose to roleplay that particular character with all the limitations that he/she has.


But now you found the sword of uber +stats and you will use it .

Blah .

I would find it a acceptable only if

At the start of the game you chose one or stats that are your prefered stats .

And magickal items can boost only thoise stats .


Or even better if your 1 or 2 highest stats were the only ones that you could boost by magickal items .


Or lastly if a race could boost only certain stats .

But this find items with +stats freely .

It sucks.

My 2 cents.

 

[chrisbeddoes]

Or something like that

from

http://www.rpgplanet.com/lionheart/guide-races.shtml

letter in bold italic added by me

Pureblood

hose referred to as the Pureblood come from the untainted bloodline of humans. They and their ancestors remain untouched by the Disjunction or the spirits it released upon Earth. They have average attributes and make up the majority of Europe's population. Purebloods tend to control most of the continent and it's politics.

Advantages: Purebloods suffer no faction problems and typically can excel at anything they wish. They begin the game with 3 Tag Skills, more than any other race.

Disadvantages: Purebloods receive no Racial Traits and have slightly lower starting abilities than the other races.

+Purebloods can use all +stats items but all bonuses are halved

Sylvant

he sylvant are perhaps the most rare of the races, or perhaps they are simply the best at intermixing undetected with the Purebloods. They come from a bloodline which has been tainted by or contains an elemental spirit. Since Sylvants tend to rely on their heightened ability to wield magic, they generally are physically weaker than the other races.

Advantages: Sylvants have heightened magical attributes and receive two Racial Traits. They begin with one extra Attribute Point compared with Purebloods.

Disadvantages: Sylvants have lowered physical attributes, less Tag Skills, and a lower Perk Rate than Purebloods.

++ Sylvants can use all items that boost intelligence , perception and luck and get all the bonus . However their other stats cannot be boosted by items

Only Sylvants can become extrahumanly intelligent by utilising the magickal harmony between spirit host and item ( stat over 10)



Demokin

he taint of a fiendish or impish spirit affects the bloodline of a Demokin. They tend to exhibit some signs of their heritage, but can generally hide the small horns or pointed ears from the casual observer. They have a heightened magical ability compared with Purebloods, but are not as magically inclined as the Sylvant.

Advantages: Demokin are somewhat more magically inclined than Purebloods and are more agile, although they are somewhat slight of build. You must choose two Racial Traits and recieve one extra attribute point compared to Purebloods.

Disadvantages: Demokin primarily suffer in the loss of one Tag Skill and a decreased Perk Rate.

++ Demokin can use all items that boost dexterity, perception and charisma and get all the bonus . However their other stats cannot be boosted by items

Only Demonkin can become extrahumanly agile by utilising the magickal harmony between spirit host and item ( dexterity stat over 10)






Feralkin

he widely persecuted Feralkin have a bloodline touched by a beast spirit. Feralkin tend to have some fairly obvious indicators of their heritage but make up for it in brute strength and physical prowess. The beast folk also have strong natural resistances to magic.

Advantages: Feralkin have increased physical statistics and have more attribute points than any other race. They are somewhat resistant to magic and must choose 3 Racial Traits.

Disadvantages: The Feralkin are obvious to the Inquisition and others who dislike magic or tainted folk. They have the least number of Tag Skills and have a decreased Perk Rate compared to Purebloods.

++ Feralkin can use all items that boost strength ,luck ,and endurance and get all the bonus . However their other stats cannot be boosted by items

Only Feralkin can become extrahumanly strong by utilising the magickal harmony between spirit host and item ( str stat over 10)

Roleplay reasons would be that the spirit likes those qualities and
boost them while it does not like the other qualities
and it stops them from having any effect .

Purebloods have no spirit and so they get 1/2 of all boosts.

Gameplay purebloods are like jack of all trades and so they get 50 % bonuses for everything
Sylvant are like mages a little and so they get intelligence , perception and luck
Demokin are more usefull as rogues /diplomats and so they get
dexterity, perception and charisma
and Feralkin are a little like Tanks Fighters and so they get strength ,luck ,and endurance.

 

[chrisbeddoes]

In other words Eric Dallaire what is the point of having different races in your game if you can find items in your game that will boost whatever stat you need ?




Oh and i am going to buy your game anyway because few good single player rpg are made but please answer the question.

edit

My 2 cents

/edit

 

[Sol Invictus]

I hate to say this but Chris, your suggestions in the above post are even worse than anything Reflexive has come up with. What you suggest practically limits Sylvants to the role of mage, Demokin to the role of snipers/speakers and Feralkins to the role of brutish fighters. This would severely limit any way for a Sylvant player to want to try to be a kick ass fighter or for a demokin to be anything but a diplomat/sniper.

Besides, I think that you're blowing this whole stat increasing items issue out of proportion. I doubt that stat increasing items will come in such abundance or power that the wielder would be able to completely nullify any of his shortcomings. Though, if that is the case - Eric - I beg you not to include such stat-increasing bonuses on items.

 

[chrisbeddoes]

What you suggest practically limits Sylvants to the role of mage, Demokin to the role of snipers/speakers and Feralkins to the role of brutish fighters.

That is correct . I like it that way . You don't.

That is ok.

But i believe that chars should have shortcoming and that most of the fun that a Rpg gives you is from your efforts to overcome those shortcoming as you try to roleplay your character.

So a Demonkin mage would be challenging yes with my suggestions but still fun.

My 2 cents.

 

[EEVIAC]

Besides, I think that you're blowing this whole stat increasing items issue out of proportion. I doubt that stat increasing items will come in such abundance or power that the wielder would be able to completely nullify any of his shortcomings. Though, if that is the case - Eric - I beg you not to include such stat-increasing bonuses on items.

I'm starting to wonder if I over-reacted also. My greatest worry is balance. (I have images of some fat marketing bozo going into the office and saying "What are you guys doing?!? This game isn't going to sell unless you put some schmicko items in there for the kids. Right now, asswipes, pronto, or this game will never see gold!!! And put in some hookers on BMX bikes dammit!" Which seems to me to be the general model for rpg's these days.)

Whenever I see the words fat loot I get shivers down my spine, even when its in jest.

 

[MF]

My greatest worry is item-swapping and muling. If you're talking to someone you can figure out they're checking your speech skill, so perhaps I should put on that ring of extra charisma and +10 speech. I'll just put on my ring of elite archery back on after the conversation.

That's the sort of thing that needs to be avoided.

If it's well balanced and logical, I have no problems with it. I agree with Exitium that Chris' suggestions make the races classes, and if anything is inherent to SPECIAL, it's a classless character system so that's a horrible idea. (A typical 'fan' idea :p j/k)