Interview SoU question session at GameSpy

[Saint_Proverbius]

Tags: Neverwinter Nights: Shadows of Undrentide

<b>Dr. Ray Muzyka</b>, CEO of <A href="http://www.bioware.com">BioWare</a>, and <b>Dr. Greg Zeschuk</b> have been <a href="http://www.gamespy.com/interviews/june03/raygreg/">interviewed</a> by <a href="http://www.gamespy.com/">GameSpy</a> about the upcoming <A href="http://nwn.bioware.com/shadows">Shadows of Undrentide</a> expansion pack for <A href="http://nwn.bioware.com">Neverwinter Nights</a>. Here's a fun part:
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<blockquote><B>GameSpy: What does Shadows of Undrentide mean for the considerable Neverwinter Nights community on the Internet?
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Ray:</b> It's been awesome. We have over 2,400 or 2,500 modules. There's close to a million users, and we will probably hit the million user count in a couple of weeks. In addition, we just peaked recently with 6,000 simultaneous users playing Neverwinter modules, and that's an all day long sort of thing. During the whole day there's probably about 20,000 or 30,000 people playing the game. Neverwinter, in terms of community, is reaching higher levels everyday. It's pretty cool to be associated with that.</blockquote>
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So, close to <i>one million</i> people registered the game, and out of those, <i>three percent</i> are playing online and this is the peak level?
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Spotted this at <A href="http://www.homelanfed.com">HomeLAN Fed</a>.

 

[DrattedTin]

Uhm... anyone else notice how he absolutely refused to answer the question?

 

[POOPERSCOOPER]

hey

The original Starcraft gets that amount of people at average times, and that game is like 5-6 years old. Thats not even the more popular expansion, Brood Wars, which probably gets a lot more.

 

[triCritical]

Does anyone ever think that Bioware's ego is the oppositte in size as Ray's penis.

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

Uhm... anyone else notice how he absolutely refused to answer the question?

That's the second part of his answer, but it's the best part of it.

 

[Nomad]

SP, that's 2% - 3% individual connections per day. It doesn't say anything about whether it's the same people connecting each day, however. Personally, my group only plays NWN once per week. I'm not saying that's the case with everyone (I'm certain that it isn't), but it's just something else to consider.

Since we're speculating, let's say those connections were by people who only played once per week. In that case, you'd be looking at between 140,000 and 210,000 individual connections per week or around 14% - 21% of the users and that's a year after the game was released. I'm no expert and I have no data (hence the speculation) but that sounds pretty good, to me. If anyone has any actual data about similar games, I'd love to hear it.

PS, like StarCraft, Counterstrike also gets more daily activity than NWN. What's your point? I don't think it makes sense to compare StarCraft (an RTS) and Counterstrike (an FPS) to NWN (an RPG), they're different genres and appeal to different markets. I wonder what would the numbers be like for other multiplayer RPGs?


N.

 

[Zetor]

Similar games.. I don't think there are any, honestly. Do you mean free-to-play online RPGs? MUDs often have over 100 people online at times [and there are a few thousand of 'em out there; the largest ones sometimes have HUNDREDS of players playing at the same time!] and the biggest private UO shards (yes, I know, UO is a MMOG, but those shards are run by players and are free to play as long as you own the UO client itself) are capable of accomodating thousands of users at a time.

Then again, I don't think NWN was designed to compete with these [heck, there's a hardcoded 64-user limit! Yeah, I know it's possible to bypass it, but it was still a design decision] -- the game's appeal [to me] was adventuring in a group of friends as a party, ala good ol' D&D. Now, this aspect IS enjoyable, esp. if you can't find an RPG club that plays D&D in your area, but the general clunkiness and non-RP-friendliness of the engine doesn't help. I won't deny that some of the best roleplaying moments I've had over the years were during my 2-month NWN stint, but that was because of the players, not because of the game. If you ask me, MUDs are superior in every single aspect except for graphics. [insert TV vs. book analogy here]

Well, there's my requisite rant-of-the-week...

-- Z.

 

[POOPERSCOOPER]

hey

PS, like StarCraft, Counterstrike also gets more daily activity than NWN. What's your point? I don't think it makes sense to compare StarCraft (an RTS) and Counterstrike (an FPS) to NWN (an RPG), they're different genres and appeal to different markets. I wonder what would the numbers be like for other multiplayer RPGs?


N.

Well, NWN basis is online gameplay since I doubt many will enjoy the single player. StarCraft on the other hand has an excellent single player experience, with multiplayer support included. Starcraft came out in 97' so it's been like 6 years and people are still playing it more than NWN which has been out for a year, and NWN is focused as an online game. It just shows you that people haven't been getting their long time replay with those 2,500 modules, yet people are still playing SC which has been released for 6 years and is in a crowed market of RTSs. I don't see many free online RPGs like NWN, you'd expect that more people would be playing it. Even MMropgs were you have to pay to play, get more players.

 

[Volourn]

Also, one must remmeber, that those on-line numbers don't count those playing modules single player which is normally what I do now. I play multi-player once, and awhile.

However, none of this will convince those who want to deem NWN a failure t change their minds. Of course, the numbers have incrased from between 1000-2000 people on line at any given time when it first came out to between 4000-5000 now. That is safe to say a pretty good increase.

Anyways,... back to playing NWN, and waiting for LH.

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

It's rather logical those numbers would increase now, since school is out for most students out there. They have more free time, so the numbers go up around mid-May or so. Instead of the once or twice per week thing, you have those same players playing more frequently.

 

[Sabotai]

Did anyone else have trouble understanding that interview? A few examples:
The opening sentence:

The extraordinary success of BioWare's Neverwinter Nights, despite what you might think, was all part of the company's master plan.

Say what? Would any rational mind think up the concept: Let's create a Company's Master plan with a unsuccessful objective?

GameSpy: Last year we talked about the possibilities of modules written by Forgotten Realms novelists like R.A. Salvatore. Any progress with that?
Ray: We're talking about that idea with Wizards of the Coast. They're interested, and we went down a few weeks back and talked to them about it. Whether or not it will happen, we don't know. They seem to be interested with the actual concept. Who would the exact authors be? We don't know. Will it actually happen? We don't know. It's really up to them, but if they're interested, we're willing to help.

The concept is really powerful. We would be happy to try it. If the authors could do a little scripting and arc help, then they can come up with some amazing stuff.

BIO is saying it's up to others and they are very interested and willing to help, but:

Greg: The thing is we're at a critical mass point. It's on the list of things to do, but the list is already long.

Huh? I'm interpreting this as "We don't have the resources but it's on our to do list." And also on the subject:

Ray: Whether or not it will actually occur in the short term is not really in our hands.

Greg: We're not in the position to drive that kind of thing. We have to propose it and hope somebody hears and thinks that it's a great idea to pursue.

Ray: The people who will be involved with the publisher are Atari, Wizards of the Coast, and their parent, Hasbro. Obviously, there are a lot of stakeholders involved, and we can only suggest ideas. Hopefully the idea will catch a spark and take off.

Now it's changed back to "It's not our decision", multiple times (once is enough, so please stop doing that, I'm not stooopid).
As to the idea itself, they definitely could use help in the story writing department.

GameSpy: How long do you think the Neverwinter community will flourish?
Greg: I'll say years. Not, because we're supporting it, but we'll probably be supporting it for quite a while as a company.

How am I supposed to interpret this? What's up with the part "Not, because we're supporting it". Isn't just "We'll probably be supporting it for quite a while as a company" sufficient? Or do they mean, "Not because we (Greg and Ray personally) are supporting it"? I surely hope they are not as narcistic as that.

What people don't know is when you classify monthly sales with revenue sales, overall the revenue is still high, even more than nine months after its release.

Now what's up with this? I've got a Masters degree in economics and most of my books were in English. But this just doesn't seem to make sense? I even looked up "classify with" in the dictionary. Maybe it's a translation thing and a native English speaker can help me out here. To me "classify with" is synonymous with "categorize, grade, sort, group". Isn't he trying to say "We still have steady monthly sales, so overall yearly revenue is pretty high", but making shambles out of it?

GameSpy: For Shadows of Undrentide, you're collaborating with FloodGate Entertainment. How did this relationship come about?
Greg: We thought it was a nice way to try and create more products. We could work on things more broadly without having to do all the work ourselves, sharing the workload. It's been pretty good.

Yep, this sounds like NWN alright.

Greg: There are really strong programming features as well. [...] That's the way we approach it, because we do patches, but they're not really patches, they're content updates.

Now this is what I call arrogance. For a game as buggy as NWN to call patches content updates.

Ray: In the second expansion pack that we're doing by ourselves later in the year, we haven't released any details on it yet, but we have some interesting ideas on how the story can be appealing to fans, and it doesn't necessarily have to be epic in scope, either. It can be something that's actually focused, but ultra-high quality is the key. There might be something a little different than what they're used to, but certainly lots of new content, backgrounds, and interesting things like that.

A none epic BIOware game with a title Hordes of the Underdark!! This I have to see.

 

[Jed]

There are really strong programming features as well. [...] That's the way we approach it, because we do patches, but they're not really patches, they're content updates.

Anyone remember this episode of the Simpsons?:

The Investorettes visit the Fleet-A-Pita franchise.

Helen: Hmm, Pita. Well, I don't know about food from the Middle East.
Isn't that whole area a little iffy?
Hostess: [laughs] Hey, I'm no geographer. You and I -- why don't we
call it pocket bread, huh?
Maude: [reading the ingredients list] Umm, what's tahini?
Hostess: Flavor sauce.
Edna: And falafel?
Hostess: Crunch patties.
Helen: So, we'd be selling foreign...
Hostess: Specialty foods. Here, try a Ben Franklin.
Helen: [takes a bite] Mmm, that is good. What's in it?
Chef: [poking his head out of a window] Tabbouleh and rezmi-kabob.
Hostess: [trying to cover-up] Uh, th-that's our chef... Christopher.
Chef: [mutters, and closes the window, cursing]

 

[Sabotai]

BIO keeps unvealing SoU stuff. For those interested, here some information about the characters in SoU. Interesting characters? See for yourself:

Deekin

All dragons need to be kept entertained when they're between nefarious plots, and the mighty white dragon, Tymofarrar, is no exception. His entertainment comes in the form of tiny Deekin Scalesinger: kobold bard, spinner of yarns and bawdy limericks, and teller of heroic tales that interest even the most jaded of audiences. Of course, when your primary audience is a dragon that threatens to eat you whenever displeased, you're forced to stay on your toes ... and Deekin is as high-strung and nervous a creature as you'll find as a result. This bard privately dreams of becoming something more than he is, however. He dreams of voyaging places where no kobold has ever dreamed, of seeing strange lands he has only read about ... and of becoming the intrepid and faithful sidekick to the first gallant hero he spots. If his draconic master would even let him go, that is.

GameSpy: Wow, a kobold bard. How did that happen? And how did Deekin come into the employment of a white dragon? Is he kept under duress?
Dave Gaider: That's a good question, and a tale that can really only properly be told by Deekin, himself. In a nutshell, Deekin was taught his abilities by his white dragon master, Tymofarrar … and he uses those abilities to keep his master amused, no matter how much he longs to travel elsewhere.

So Tymofarrar told Deekin all his jokes and with these jokes Deekin keeps his master amused? Plausible anyone?

And Scalesinger as a lastname for a bard entertaining a dragon? It's like Dorna Trapspringer, the thief. Who thought up these names? Is my milkman called Jan Bottlecarrier. Or my doctor called Carl Woundhealer? No....

Dorna

Dorna Trapspringer is one of Master Drogan's apprentices ... though this dwarf is no wizard. Dorna is a rogue, ready to take on any obstacle that gets in her path, as well as a devout follower of Vergadain, dwarven god of wealth and luck. As practical and unflappable a companion as one is likely to have ... with Dorna at your back, you've got both a steady hand and killer instinct that may just see you through more than one tough spot ahead.

GameSpy: How can a thief apprentice under a wizard? What can Drogan teach her that she wouldn't learn at a good thieves guild?

Good question. Very Ungamespy-ish. It almost sounds critical, questioning SoU's logic.

Dave Gaider: Dorna is a student of Drogan, but it is not magic and spells that he teaches her. As with many of his students, Drogan passes on to Dorna the knowledge that he has gained from a lifetime of adventuring, rather than merely his arcane abilities. He imparts knowledge of the outside world, wisdom, and the ability to survive, while adventuring in hostile environments … where else would one learn such things than from someone who has done it all?

So how does she learn pickpocketing, lockpicking and trapspringing from a wizard? You know, thieving stuff?

 

[Volourn]

Perhaps, she learned theiveing skills onthe streets like most thieves. There usually aren't schools outside of thief guilds for this sort of thing...

 

[Spazmo]

Not to mention that the name Trapspringer is an outright theft from a Dragonlance character (the infamous Uncle Trapspringer, Kender hero).

Here's something interesting from the GameSpot review of SoU (By the way, there's a GameSpot review of SoU, Saint):

Four powerful artifacts have been stolen, and you need to recover them for your master. This series of quests, in turn, leads to bigger problems for your increasingly experienced character, as you find yourself at odds with a number of powerful villains and their appropriately sinister schemes.

Whee! Looks like more of the same fetch-me-these-four-identical-and-very-important-and-surely-not-arbirtary-items-or-the-world-is-doomed gameplay! And then, after you do, it your master needs more arbitrary items. This game is obviously the NWN OC with some new tilesets and different names for the NPCs.

 

[triCritical]

Whee! Looks like more of the same fetch-me-these-four-identical-and-very-important-and-surely-not-arbirtary-items-or-the-world-is-doomed gameplay! And then, after you do, it your master needs more arbitrary items. This game is obviously the NWN OC with some new tilesets and different names for the NPCs.

Well that does sound remarkably similar to NWN, which as I scour the net now, I find is very disliked as far as the OC goes. But I am sure that Bioware is just interested in the max profit for the minimum work routine. It worked once and I bet it will work again. Biowares ego is an over inflated balloon bound to pop.

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

So Tymofarrar told Deekin all his jokes and with these jokes Deekin keeps his master amused? Plausible anyone?

Kind of sounded like.. "Oh shit, we didn't think of that."

The idea of a kobold bard alone is pretty silly though.

Whee! Looks like more of the same fetch-me-these-four-identical-and-very-important-and-surely-not-arbirtary-items-or-the-world-is-doomed gameplay! And then, after you do, it your master needs more arbitrary items. This game is obviously the NWN OC with some new tilesets and different names for the NPCs.

I'm pretty sure I posted that and made the exact same comment about finding the four artifacts dealie.

 

[Spazmo]

Are you sure? That review was published today, and I didn't see any news item on it.

 

[Sabotai]

Are you sure? That review was published today, and I didn't see any news item on it.

Havn't seen any news item either S_P. Also the SoU Characters' info at GameSpy was published today, or maybe yesterday depending on the time zone.

From the GameSpot review:

Much like Neverwinter Nights' campaign, Undrentide's campaign does a good job of actually letting you role-play your character, mostly by giving you both good-natured and evil-natured dialogue options and quest solutions. There's a lot of dialogue to read through, but it's good enough if you're interested, and it can be skimmed through easily if you'd rather just hack and slash your way to the end.

Once again, it appears that whatever dialogue option you pick, it doesn't really change anything.