Interview Part 2 of Planescape: Torment interview at RPGWatch

[Calis]

Tags: Black Isle Studios; Chris Avellone; Planescape: Torment

<A HREF="http://www.rpgwatch.com">RPGWatch</A> has published the <A HREF="http://www.rpgwatch.com/show/article?articleid=56&ref=0&id=208">second part of the excellent interview</A> with Chris Avellone and Colin McComb, conducted by Brother None. To this day, I rue the fact that Chris A was never as involved on the official forum while the game was still in development as his designer-underlings Colin, Adam and Scott. It's good that someone finally dived into that demented brain of his to extract this information. Obligatory interview quote, dealing with cliches in Torment:
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<blockquote>- Rats became one of the most dangerous creatures to fight.
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- Undead were often more human and sympathetic than their living counterparts (Pharod vs. Stale Mary, for example).
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- Quest givers were usually people you had given quests to, but had forgotten you had (Pharod).
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- Brothels indulged not physical lusts, but intellectual lusts. A LOT.
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- The plane of chaos was incredibly orderly.
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- Gaining information was often more important than increasing your stats.
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- Death didn't end the game, and in places, helped progress it.
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- You didn't get a name until the end of the game.
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- You are frequently fighting against things and traps you set for yourself in previous lives.
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- No swords - and there was an attempt to avoid conventional and expected spells and weapons.
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- No dwarves, elves, halflings, etc.
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- Options were provided for the player to easily raise dead companions so the game could keep going easily.
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- The most prominent Succubi in the game was non-sexual.
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- Devils were painfully honest, angels... well, weren't.</blockquote>
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It's most definitely a must-read and even includes the original Torment pitch-it-to-the-management document. <A HREF="http://www.rpgwatch.com/show/article?articleid=56&ref=0&id=208">Go read it</A>

 

[Zomg]

It's nice to see that "slating," as in slating intellectual lusts, was sitting there being fucking wrong right from the first pitch and no one ever corrected it. How many guys were like, "Hmm, I'm looking at that askance, no two ways about it. Dictionary? Fuck that shit."

Fun interview to read, though.

 

[Texas Red]

Why are people still discussing Torment? Today it is deeply disappointing and not worth playing, just like Fallouts.

Seriously though, somebody should fucking cancel Christmas. Im tired of everything has to be released in November. This is really infuriating me.

Proof that we live in the age of Idiocracy is that the Planescape setting is not supported anymore. One game has many original and interesting ideas going on and it is dead, FR and other such lamer settings, on the other hand, are more generic than Oblivion with maybe one or two special ideas or themes, and they live. Everything from music to games has to have that McDonald's quality, that feeling you get when something is completely devoid of soul. Another game in Planescape was and is needed because there is much to be explored.

And yet again Chris wins.

 

[Calis]

Proof that we live in the age of Idiocracy is that the Planescape setting is not supported anymore. One game has many original and interesting ideas going on and it is dead

In all fairness, it sold like shit, and getting a good game going in it is a rather difficult undertaking..

 

[Mantiis]

It's nice to see that "slating," as in slating intellectual lusts, was sitting there being fucking wrong right from the first pitch and no one ever corrected it. How many guys were like, "Hmm, I'm looking at that askance, no two ways about it. Dictionary? Fuck that shit."

Fun interview to read, though.

I am not as smart as you what the fuck are you talking about? Is slating spelt wrong? No i dont have time to look it up.

 

[Hümmelgümpf]

It was supposed to be "The Brothel for Slaking Intellectual Lusts".

 

[Walkin' Dude]

Again, the advantage of being able to use painted bitmaps as adventure maps really allowed us to pull off some of the locations that would be extremely difficult to do in a 3D engine.

But I thought 3D made everything easier.

 

[Brother None]

It was supposed to be "The Brothel for Slaking Intellectual Lusts".

Should've slipped in a question/remark on that.

That and the whole Pages of Pain thing.

Ah well. Forgot.

 

[NiM82]

Good interview and pleasant to read.

But I thought 3D made everything easier.

Easier/faster to make yes, but some of PST's very detailed locations would need too many polygons to run nicely atm. It's also easier to tweak 2D images to look great, than it is to fuck with the lighting/shaders/textures etc in a real-time 3D scene.

It's a real shame 2D died the way it did, there's a lot more that could have been done, especially with hybrid engines

 

[kingcomrade]

As the start of the game, however, Ravel's "blessing" is breaking down, and the Nameless One is actually able to remember his previous deaths up until the start of the game. Ironically, this coincides with the fact that his mental degradation is also escalating, and the longer he is killed and reborn, he will eventually become nothing more than a mindless zombie that is impossible to kill.

Finally an answer, though I think he misphrased it.

 

[protobob]

P:T had its flaws but the imagination on display in that game was balls-to-the-walls fucking hot. Compared to PS:T, the industry standard typical high-fantasy clone job is nothing more than tepid baby bathwater shit.

 

[cuthbert]

I thought it was interesting how they themselves saw the tired generic fantasy elements (back then) and said lets turn these elements on its head and see if it works.

Although a lot of people will say it didn't sell well or it was too this and that, you don't get the recognition (still many years later) that they did for making a just a fantasy game. It goes to show you when you add right elements and creativity you can make a great game (with a weird setting) and not follow the normal conventions.

 

[ecliptic]

I'm getting nostalgic... really want to play through that gem again.

 

[Texas Red]

I'm getting nostalgic... really want to play through that gem again.

By today standards its deeply disappointing and not worth playing.

 

[kingcomrade]

Deionarra had a nice rack huh

 

[aries202]

Yes, 3D makes everything easier...but it does not mean that everything will get better. You can change things more easily in 3D in games, however, using 2D/3D engines requires you to really think ahead and plan out what you will be doing in the game - graphics and design wise. PS: Torment is really a very great game

And the interview is wellwritten and welldone, and a must any Torment fan to read Brother None has done an outstanding job -- again I like the fact that Chris&Chris are so open about their work, and willing to talk about how the game was made. It is rare to see in game devs. today. It is also great to see that they both are able to think about the rights and wrongs in the game, and to suggest what should be done - to make a better game Nice read

 

[Jinsai]

The breaking of convention was the problem

I think the explicit efforts to break conventions were part of the "problem" for Torment's somewhat limited appeal.

Personally, I loved it. Easily the best gaming experience I've ever had in total. I remember finishing the game. I sat in my chair for about 15 minutes, thinking. Then I had to get up and go for a long walk and think some more. The only game that's ever come close to that level of impact were the Fallouts, and while I think they were more fun to play and re-play, they didn't change the nature of this man the way Torment did.

I didn't even realize the inversion of many of the conventions until they were pointed out (no swords, rats as challenging, etc.), but I do recall thinking that somehow the game created this rich, fresh, unique world that I couldn't get enough of.

The writing was spectacular - but it had to be, given how text-heavy the game was.

That said, the game had some serious flaws - the beginning was very slow, and the ending areas were clearly rushed. The player had to stumble upon many game mechanics (talking to companions regularly, for example) that were essential to success.

It is very difficult to get into it today - the resolution seems pitiful and I find the combat rather tedious (and there's a lot of it - how many thugs did you kill today?).

Still, I don't think we'll ever see another game ever approach that quality level.[/b]

 

[Jasede]

Re: The breaking of convention was the problem

the resolution seems pitiful

Snobby poofter...

 

[aries202]

Like so many other games, Christmas really should be abolished, I think - at least when it comes to releasing games, just in time for said Holiday. This demand of the publishers have had many great games be released 3-6 months before they were finished. In Torment's case, it would have been better to have waited until maybe march/april 2000 to release the game instead of rushing the game out the door so it could be sold for Christmas. People didn't buy it - that Christmas, did they Its popularity just grew steadily and steadily during the years, untill 8 years after is initial release, it s considered a true classic in the rpg realm of games.

In the interview. Chris A. talks about a quest that was cut from the game, it was about annah being kidnapped, and loving every minute of it. That quest could have been in there, and it would have been a better game for it, I think. Small little things could also have been polished, altered, added etc. as well as helped the game to be better. Unlike so many of you, I rather liked the slow openinf of Torment I mean, it does make sense that a guy who has been for what seems to be like a 1000 years and on top of that doesn't remember anything, is a bit confused at first, and really don't know what's going on in the game, would be a bit slow. It does so, at least, to me. Combat was just like the good ol' IE engine combat, Realtime w/pause, just the way I like it (or rather it as more of phasebased/roundbased system, in realtime with an option to pause).

And the whole story arc about a guy waking up, doen't remember who he is, and has to find out who he is was appealing to me, for some reason. (don't know, though ). The way Torment handled death was in a very unique way, sometimes it actually mattered if you died, since you only would wake up at your starting point, gaining you more information. And Morte, the sidekick was really a very ehm - interesting scull to be around. The other characters were very unique as well

Great job, brother none

 

[RGE]

Chris A. talks about a quest that was cut from the game, it was about annah being kidnapped, and loving every minute of it.

I believe that it was Fall-From-Grace who would've loved being kidnapped, while Annah would've cursed a lot. Very important detail.

Maybe I should replay the game. I think I quit playing a thief TNO in the Hive, after having reached some ungodly level (42?) by killing black abishai's for 8k XP a piece. He could probably pick up Fall-From-Grace and Vhailor, since I didn't have space for those two the first and only time I played through the game. Just have to replay Arcanum a few times first.

 

[Chris Avellone]

It's nice to see that "slating," as in slating intellectual lusts, was sitting there being fucking wrong right from the first pitch and no one ever corrected it. How many guys were like, "Hmm, I'm looking at that askance, no two ways about it. Dictionary? Fuck that shit."

Fun interview to read, though.

It is a sad fact that the first one to notice the error was one of our proofreaders on the strategy guide. Sigh.

 

[Nicolai]

Hey Avellone, how about coughing up some more design docs? Could trade you some sleazy pictures of Exitium for them.

 

[Dabrinko]

Don't forget the music, the oh-so-lovely music! I can still hum the theme.

 

[Jasede]

The music has been uploaded on millions of places and I have linked to it millions of times. Use google you lazy person.

 

[jiujitsu]

Hey Avellone, how about coughing up some more design docs? Could trade you some sleazy pictures of Exitium for them.

Sleazy Exitium pix? Where?!