Game News Underworld Ascendant Kickstarter Update #11: Sling Backer Goal, Stephen Russell, UW Retrospective

[Infinitron]

Tags: Looking Glass Studios; Origin Systems; OtherSide Entertainment; Paul Neurath; Richard Garriott; Ultima Underworld II: Labyrinth of Worlds; Ultima Underworld: The Stygian Abyss; Underworld Ascendant

Just under twelve days since its launch, the Underworld Ascendant Kickstarter campaign has reached 450,000 dollars of funding, with over 8,000 backers. The Dwarven Claw Knuckles goal from last week was reached on time, adding that item to the game for all backers (though without any opal stones). Now OtherSide want to repeat that tactic again, this time with a Dark Elven artifact. The latest Kickstarter update explains:

We’re having a great weekend so far, pushing past the 8,000 backer goal for the week. As of noon Sunday there are 8,078 of you strong! That’s a small army… growing into a larger army. This also means everybody who backs this Kickstarter will receive gratis the exclusive ‘Little Friends’ digital reward, which our dwarven smiths are busily crafting.

With this goal met, we’re setting a new challenge. Let’s grow our army of backers to at least 9,000 strong come next Sunday noon. The Dwarves are not the only faction helping us out with this. The Dark Elves are working on a special gift for everybody if we meet this next goal.

A handy sling, popular with the Dark Elves. This one comes with rare Splatter Seeds. The elves harvest these seeds from a creeping vine that thrives in their domain. The seeds have sharp thorns that can damage a foe, but they also split open on contact to spray a phosphorescent goo. Great way to tag a foe in the dark! The 5 seeds that come with this sling have a one-of-a-kind, extra long-lasting, purple goo. For every hundred additional backers over 9,000 that join us by Sunday noon, the elves have offered to include a bonus purple seed.
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There's more exclusive item-related stuff in the update - details about the Dark Elven buckler available to people who back both this and Portalarium's Shroud of the Avatar, and about the Avatar's robe available to backers at the $200 and above tiers. But the most exciting thing in the update is the announcement of the voice acting talent that OtherSide have picked up. That's right, Stephen "Garrett" Russell:

It’s our pleasure to announce that Stephen L. Russell will be doing voice acting for Underworld Ascendant. Among gamers, Stephen is perhaps best known as the voice of Garrett in the original Thief games. At Looking Glass we worked closely with Stephen, where he voiced some of the more memorable characters from Thief, Thief II and System Shock 2. Stephen also did voice acting for Fallout 3 and Skyrim. We’re looking forward to working with him once again.
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If you want more nostalgia, you might also be interested in this Ultima Underworld 1 & 2 retrospective discussion that was featured in Star Citizen's "RSI Museum" a couple of days ago. Starring Richard Garriott, Paul Neurath-on-a-stick, and veteran Origin producer Dallas Snell, it's actually more of a retrospective of their entire careers and the companies that they founded. Here's the video:

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Despite being over an hour long, the discussion is far too abridged to really say anything very interesting about the Ultima Underworld games themselves. However, I enjoyed the final part when they began talking about the "Origin tribe" and the concept of "company culture". At one point, Dallas Snell honestly admits that Origin failed at sustaining its culture after EA took over and the founding personnel began leaving the company.

 

[MicoSelva]

This funding is going a lot slower than i would have thought. I hope they did not go the Molyneux way and actually asked for the amount they needed, instead of relying on getting significantly overfunded.

 

[mindx2]

This funding is going a lot slower than i would have thought. I hope they did not go the Molyneux way and actually asked for the amount they needed, instead of relying on getting significantly overfunded.

Not sure they'll answer that question (or will try to answer without specifics) but it one that I will be asking when I see them this week.

 

[Cosmo]

This funding is going a lot slower than i would have thought. I hope they did not go the Molyneux way and actually asked for the amount they needed, instead of relying on getting significantly overfunded.

Unfortunately they don't rely on flashy updates or star power, they're more honest technicians with good recommendations than real sellers.
Shows you the limits of kickstarter really : the majority of its appeal boils down to publicity (not that i'm complaining it exits, mind you, but still it's not perfect).

 

[Zorba the Hutt]

Shows you the limits of kickstarter really : the majority of its appeal boils down to publicity (not that i'm complaining it exits, mind you, but still it's not perfect).

There was also that initial wave of enthusiasm for a "new way of doing things" with added "stick it to the evil publishers" (in Fargo's case) that powered the early days of games on kickstarter. Can't help wondering how much this would have made if they'd pitched back in the days when games were raking in far more than expected. Now that kickstarter has become more of a routine process, and most backers have been burned a couple of times (or the reality didn't match the hype)... well, it seems there's more emphasis on a recent track record (like Shadowrun) or some really big names to generate publicity.

Still, even if they 'only' got, say $800k that's still a good start for making a game and money they wouldn't have to get from other sources. If they are really hoping for, say, $1.5 million to make this then it will be a lot easier to find investors or lenders if you've already got $800k to part-fund the game. And even if they have to take on investors kickstarter will mean they end up owning a far bigger chunk of the revenues than if they didn't have the $800k.

But yes, it is still painful seeing some of the shit that attracts millions on ks.

 

[Darkzone]

This funding is going a lot slower than i would have thought. I hope they did not go the Molyneux way and actually asked for the amount they needed, instead of relying on getting significantly overfunded.

Their funding is going quite as expected to my back of the envelope calculations (only 5% off). But who is Molyneux?

 

[Junmarko]

Ahhh. Ultima retrospectives are always so interesting, must be because the teams back then were pretty tight, they really were artists back then. Now it's 1000 soulless people working like ants to pump out the next Ubisoft tat.

 

[DeepOcean]

Shows you the limits of kickstarter really : the majority of its appeal boils down to publicity (not that i'm complaining it exits, mind you, but still it's not perfect).

There was also that initial wave of enthusiasm for a "new way of doing things" with added "stick it to the evil publishers" (in Fargo's case) that powered the early days of games on kickstarter. Can't help wondering how much this would have made if they'd pitched back in the days when games were raking in far more than expected. Now that kickstarter has become more of a routine process, and most backers have been burned a couple of times (or the reality didn't match the hype)... well, it seems there's more emphasis on a recent track record (like Shadowrun) or some really big names to generate publicity.

Still, even if they 'only' got, say $800k that's still a good start for making a game and money they wouldn't have to get from other sources. If they are really hoping for, say, $1.5 million to make this then it will be a lot easier to find investors or lenders if you've already got $800k to part-fund the game. And even if they have to take on investors kickstarter will mean they end up owning a far bigger chunk of the revenues than if they didn't have the $800k.

But yes, it is still painful seeing some of the shit that attracts millions on ks.

Man, those guys aren't really Marketing people and their kickstarter shows , even on the top of the kickstarter crazyness they would have problems. The updates so far are really underwhelming and the pitch is really... okay. Obsidian can get away with having a shitty kickstarter, they can't. I hope they succeed because they seem sincere about the game they want to make, I just think 600.000 for a complex first person Dungeon crawler with factions and etc. is too little. I hope they really did the math and aren't counting to get more than that.

 

[Owl]

Man, those guys aren't really Marketing people and their kickstarter shows , even on the top of the kickstarter crazyness they would have problems. The updates so far are really underwhelming and the pitch is really... okay. Obsidian can get away with having a shitty kickstarter, they can't. I hope they succeed because they seem sincere about the game they want to make, I just think 600.000 for a complex first person Dungeon crawler with factions and etc. is too little. I hope they really did the math and aren't counting to get more than that.

I agree that 600k seems too low for a game of this type, fortunately they have other funding sources. From the KS comments:

Mentioned earlier today, but to say again, we brought in some investment last year into OtherSide, so we're not starting our budget from scratch. The 600K is the additional funding we need to deliver the core PC game.
We would love to reach one or several of the stretch goals beyond this of course.

 

[Infinitron]

There are still 24 hours left on the clock, but I'd like to point out that throughout their Kickstarter campaign for Shadowrun: Hong Kong, HBS haven't posted one gameplay video or even a proper screenshot. Many of their Kickstarter updates were EXTREMELY low effort. And this is while they have a fully functional running game engine already!

Despite this, many Codexers will remember the Shadowrun: Hong Kong campaign as "the mostest professionalest campaign evar!" simply because it earned more money than they expected, while calling the Underworld Ascension Kickstarter unprofessional despite it doing basically the same things.

In fact, with all these little backer goals, the Shroud of the Avatar/Star Citizen tie-ins, the devs chatting with fans on their forums, the ACTUAL FOOTAGE from their prototype, etc, the Underworld campaign has done a lot more.

 

[tuluse]

Torment was clearly the best run ks.

HBS was able to bank on created goodwill with their first 2 games. These guys are trying to bank on LGS's goodwill but they're not doing a great job actually connecting it to people.

 

[Cosmo]

There are still 24 hours left on the clock, but I'd like to point out that throughout their Kickstarter campaign for Shadowrun: Hong Kong, HBS haven't posted one gameplay video or even a proper screenshot. Many of their Kickstarter updates were EXTREMELY low effort. And this is while they have a fully functional running game engine already!

Despite this, many Codexers will remember the Shadowrun: Hong Kong campaign as "the mostest professionalest campaign evar!" simply because it earned more money than they expected, while calling the Underworld Ascension Kickstarter unprofessional despite it doing basically the same things.

In fact, with all these little backer goals, the Shroud of the Avatar/Star Citizen tie-ins, the devs chatting with fans on their forums, the ACTUAL FOOTAGE from their prototype, etc, the Underworld campaign has done a lot more.

That's not comparable as HBS and their backers have 2 previous campaigns (and games) in their rearview mirror. Add the money they already have this time to the fact that the heavy pulling has already been done two times, and here's the difference.

 

[Wizfall]

Unfortunately they don't rely on flashy updates or star power, they're more honest technicians with good recommendations than real sellers.
Shows you the limits of kickstarter really : the majority of its appeal boils down to publicity (not that i'm complaining it exits, mind you, but still it's not perfect).

From my point of view their initial video pitch was bad and it's hard to recover from that.
For those that did not play the original Underworld games (like me despite liking a lot some of the other Ultima), they dropped so many games' names (of very different qualities/design, some with the kind of design i'm not interested and even dislike) in the video pitch that i did not have a clear vision at what they wanted to make (moreover co-op play made things again more confusing).
Lack of confidence in the design resulted in a loss of interest in the project.

First impression is fundamental as well as providing a cristal clear vision of what you want to achieve, without any ambiguities, from day 1.

 

[Darkzone]

Man, those guys aren't really Marketing people and their kickstarter shows , even on the top of the kickstarter crazyness they would have problems. The updates so far are really underwhelming and the pitch is really... okay. Obsidian can get away with having a shitty kickstarter, they can't. I hope they succeed because they seem sincere about the game they want to make, I just think 600.000 for a complex first person Dungeon crawler with factions and etc. is too little. I hope they really did the math and aren't counting to get more than that.

I agree that 600k seems too low for a game of this type, fortunately they have other funding sources. From the KS comments:

Mentioned earlier today, but to say again, we brought in some investment last year into OtherSide, so we're not starting our budget from scratch. The 600K is the additional funding we need to deliver the core PC game.
We would love to reach one or several of the stretch goals beyond this of course.

Yes this additional funding is more than expected. If they reach the 600k, then they can get some loans or a investor.

 

[Nihiliste]

I can't believe this isn't fully funded yet. The world has become a depressing place.

 

[Metro]

It's not glitz and starpower or whatever, it's that most of these updates and the original pitch itself have been less than substantive. You can argue it's because they don't have much to go on at this point but perhaps then it wasn't the best of ideas to start the KS at this time. They can phrase it however they want but the reality is this thing stalled big time once they hit $400k or so. And while it looks like they'll meet their goal... I'm guessing it'll be just barely. And, yes, odds are most devs on KS understate what they actually need so they can get some money versus no money if they fall short of the goal.

I'll reassess this if/when they go over some fundamentals like character progression, stats, level design, itemization, etc. I couldn't care less what Warren Spector and Richard Garriott have to say considering those two haven't made a good game in well over a decade.

 

[Infinitron]

I'll reassess this if/when they go over some fundamentals like character progression, stats, level design, itemization, etc.

You want a Josh Sawyer-style aspergery systems breakdown. Doubt it'll ever be that detailed. The way he does things is really not the norm, for better or for worse.

I'd argue that in a game of this type - first person with action combat, single character, simulationist approach towards design - those things aren't really as "fundamental" as in a highly abstracted isometric party-based RPG.

 

[Metro]

Nothing of that detail. I'm just talking the basics which they've barely covered and not algebraic calculations on stealth detection levels. I'd say even in an arpg things like basic stats (str/agi/stam/int), what they govern/how they influence attack or spells or sneak, hand-placed or randomized loot, how your character progresses (exp for killing monsters? talents? skills?) are pretty fundamental. Surely they've put some thought into that? Otherwise they don't really have much other than... 'let's ape Ultima Underworld.' Which is a noble sentiment but before you come asking for money at least have a little meat on the bone first.

 

[Infinitron]

Nothing of that detail. I'm just talking the basics which they've barely covered and not algebraic calculations on stealth detection levels. I'd say even in an arpg things like basic stats (str/agi/stam/int), what they govern/how they influence attack or spells or sneak, hand-placed or randomized loot, how your character progresses (exp for killing monsters? talents? skills?) are pretty fundamental. Surely they've put some thought into that? Otherwise they don't really have much other than... 'let's ape Ultima Underworld.' Which is a noble sentiment but before you come asking for money at least have a little meat on the bone first.

I don't think that sort of "crunch" is really fundamental to the experience (except for the hand-placed vs randomized thing which I agree is important). Truth is they could make a completely stat-less game like Thief, where you just grow more powerful by finding/equipping various items, and it could still be very Underworldy. That's not really what people remember about these games.

But if that's what they need to get the money of RPG nerds, then what can I say. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Maybe they'll come up with something in the next two weeks.

 

[Metro]

Stat-less games are the devil. Anyway, most of the games they name-dropped in their pitch have some form of character progression above and beyond itemization... even Skyrim.

 

[Tigranes]

I do agree it's pretty vague right now, though perhaps not much worse than other big RPG kickstarters. Infinitron's right that stuff like xp system doesn't really have much to do with how the original Underworld played (I say this with th efull authority of, uh, nearly done iwth my first playthrough right now). It would indeed be nice to hear more about, say, oh, we want to do 16 levels of the dungeon, we want more structures or events that reach across multiple levels like causing big flooding in the levels below, we want non-combat skills to make more of a difference...

 

[Infinitron]

A broad description of the three classes/archetypes and what sort of abilities we can expect them to have is also not too much to ask.

 

[Metro]

I pledge $1... that gets me a copy of the game, right?

 

[Metro]

I'm more Aeschylus.

 

[almondblight]

Backseat Kickstartering is certainly popular here, and it's likely most of it is wrong. Having said that...

There are still 24 hours left on the clock, but I'd like to point out that throughout their Kickstarter campaign for Shadowrun: Hong Kong, HBS haven't posted one gameplay video or even a proper screenshot. Many of their Kickstarter updates were EXTREMELY low effort. And this is while they have a fully functional running game engine already!

SR:HK had a pretty solid pitch. "You liked Dragonfall? Want more of it in HK? Look at this awesome concept art and the improvements we're thinking of making!"

Underworld was kind of..."Hey, wasn't Ultima Underworld awesome? How about Deus Ex? How about Dragon Age? How about Skyrim? Get ready for interactive environments, multi-player, and back now to get super backer items!"

Focusing on spiritual successor to Ultima Underworld and Deus Ex and we have Warren Spector helping us out might have been a bit stronger. It seemed like update #7 would have worked better as the pitch. Having said that, most of the stuff since the initial pitch has seemed pretty strong (and again, 99% of backseat Kickstarting is wrong, so it's quite possible they'd be a lot lower if they had done things the way we think they should have).