A suggestion...

[undertaker]

I've been lurking around rpgcodex for a long long time now, and I cant help but notice the drop in its quality. Whatever happened to "all the thought people put into posts"? Why is it that every rpg related topic seems to end up with Volourn and some other more intelligent person attacking each other's post and actually getting no where. Yes, indeed, ther had been a time where the posts in rpgcodex did get somewhere or atleast give insights to readers of the current state of the crpg industry or something else altogether. But now I have to plow through all of Volourn's inconsistencies and reading the same points mentioned again and again. Volourn is a not-so-intelligent person, who hasnt a grasp what role playing is about and is incapable of understanding subtleties in text form. He probably feels bitter when fanboys laugh at him and he tries to prove his intelligence whenever he can. The fact is, Volourn feels that the fanboys are deluded. He will continue to be stubborn and plague the forums. Even if this keeps forum activity high, it brings the quality low. I suggest that codex forum posters stop trying to argue with volourn or atleast somehow keep volourn from posting too much (banning may not be too harsh...hmmm). To me, rpgcodex is one of the few places where wise and intelligent comments on crpgs can be found. It is a haven for people like me to escape from the magnitude of shallow/narrow thinking of the today's soceity. I believe that if u dont waste your intelligence arguing with volourn, it'll make for a better read. There are plently of forums that is perfectly fitting for someone like volourn and there is no need for him to be here unless there is a dramatic increase in the amount of content, logic and understanding in his posts. I dont mind different opinions, i just prefer something insightful to back it up. I dont believe myself to be intelligent or knowledgable enough to post something worthwhile in rpgcodex, which is why i hadnt posted anything except this post. I hope volourn will begin to understand his lack of understanding as well. Just my thoughts.

 

[chrisbeddoes]

The drop in quality is because almost all regulars play ToEE now and do not have a lot of time to post.

 

[Whipporowill]

Maybe Saint should ban Volourn? :twisted:

Nah, that won´t happen. But he sure is repetative, and all threads seem to wind up discussing how crap NWN is in the roleplaying dpt.

 

[Deathy]

I agree that the boards have been going downhill lately. A large part of the reason is Volourn, but possibly and equal or greater part are those who get baited and/or follow his example. The less-than-one-sentence posts are possibly the main problem that I've noticed, the second being the perpetuation of stupid arguments that have been going for at least a year on this site alone.

A possible solution for the first problem could be to implement a minium post word count. 100 or so would probably be best.

On the surface, implementing a 100 word minimum for posts could work. However, a problem in this is that while 100 words is a good minimum for post size, you would still get regulars occurences of people writing gibberish or other nonsensical crap on the end of each post to reach the said limit. In fact, if we were to do this, it could just turn pointless one word posts into pointless 100 word posts. Or it could just remind people to put some thought into their posts, to flesh out their arguments and ideas before they decide to post something that is harmful to the quality of these boards.

Now, onto the next problem, being the perpetuation of stupid, unsolvable arguments (ie: "NWN sucks", "Does not" repeating ad nauseum)
Basically, the way around this one is for most of you to just drop it and agree to disagree.

These forums have pretty much been unmoderated since the opening of the site. sure, we've knocked out a few spammers and trolls, but all in all, we haven't policed the regulars much at all.

This may have to change.

In closing, put some damn thought back into your posts, or I'll become some kind of nazi moderator (in my free time) bent on removing all stupid and witless posts.

 

[Greenskin13]

A possible solution for the first problem could be to implement a minium post word count. 100 or so would probably be best.

Mmmm, that's an idea. 100 words would certainly detract anyone from making a dumb comment, and make people think about if what they're posting is really worth it. But brevity can be the soul of wit. Like you said, one hundred words of meaningless text isn't much better than one, but a single statement or comment can be enlightening. I'm not claiming to have posted anything worthy of a revelation, but I've read short posts that have added to the discussions. I know for myself, I may have what I think is a brilliant epiphany and then write it all down, only to find out the whole thing barely makes up a paragraph.

If we must change, I'd vote for stricter moderation. That way, the moderators can judge by quality instead on quantity and on a case-by-case basis. It does sound like more work for the mods, though.

Overall, I'm pretty unobservant, so I haven't noticed any drastic swings in the quality of the posts. I do believe that RPGCodex is one of the most mature and intellectual communities in the web. But if we're slipping, I'd be willing to stop making my share of mindless posts.

 

[Volourn]

If the powers to be don't want me posting here; they have the power to stop me. Otherwise stop whining. Even if I am what you say I am (retarded, moron, troll, etc., etc.); you'll just have to deal with it until they tell me to shut up.

 

[Sabotai]

I think the original poster has a valid point. I used to read each and every post but just recently I caught myself skipping lots of posts, mostly arguments between Volourn and some anti-BIOWare Codexer like Vault Dweller or XJEDX.

Maybe it's me; I have less spare time due to a new job. Maybe it's the slip in quality posting, I'm not sure. I have to admit I've been less inclined to post with all these yes-no arguments going on (not that I consider myself a quality poster). I noticed it's been ages since I've seen posts from either flamethrower Rosh, Section8 or Astromarine. Might there be a correlation between the alledged slip in quality posting and their prolongued absence? Or might they just be on holiday?

 

[Diogo Ribeiro]

Mmmm, that's an idea. 100 words would certainly detract anyone from making a dumb comment, and make people think about if what they're posting is really worth it.

You haven't been to GameFAQs, have you?

 

[EEVIAC]

I'd hate to see the RPGCodex boards turn into a police state. There's nothing wrong with brevity - I could find some examples if I could be bothered , but I couldn't, so I won't. If anything, the lengthy philosophical musings over whether Lionheart may, or may not, be completely shit (and the assosciated histrionics) were the nadir of my short time at these boards.

But maybe I'm part of a minority, someone who doesn't like to read. Perhaps the forums need some moron indicators, the names Bioware and Troika super-imposed over a heart or dagger icon so I can get the general gist of an argument without becoming too involved.

 

[Vault Dweller]

I like things as they are. Granted, it would be nice to have more indepth discussions, intelligent conversations, insights on all things role-playing, but if every freaking post would attempt to deal with the nature of the universe and the meaning of life, RPG Codex would be the most boring site evAr. So a healthy balance of thought-provoking threads and ping-pong threads (this game sucks. no, it doesn't. yes, it does... ) should be maintained. Fresh blood would definitely help. So welcome, undertaker, although you said you don't think that you're knowledgable enough to post, you don't need to be a rpg expert to have opinions and ideas. Post them. This place is not about teh ultimate knowledge, but about opinions and thoughts.

 

[Spazmo]

Well, the problem here is that boring discussions about BioWare which have been done ad nauseam keep resurfacing in totally unrelated discussions. Ultimately, however, these BioBashing events don't really contribute anything at all and only serve to derail an otherwise good thread. Therefore, we have to stop these pointless discussions.

I suggest we create something like the infamous Godwin's Law from Usenet. Godwin's Law states that whomever brings up nazis in an argument automatically loses. So, for the RPGCodex, we just replace nazis with BioWare (they're not too far apart anyways, really--er, sorry, I just violated my own law) and voila! Four pages of "H8 BIO" "NOEZ BIO ROX" is eliminated, the forum gets better and the children dance in the fields.

However, there is one exception to this: newsposts about BioWare. We're not going to stop covering their games.

Now we just need a fancy name for the law.

 

[Elwro]

BIOhazard law?

 

[Araanor]

Summon Volourn II ?

 

[Sol Invictus]

Deathy, save yourself the trouble.

I've decided to start advocating the return of order into these forums. It's true that there has been a noticeable drop of quality in these forums and a large reason for this has been Volourn's constant barrages pertaining to Bioware or NWN in just about every single thread I've noticed. In other forums, this would be known as 'hijacking'.

Now before any of you decide to get all politically correct about this I'd have to say that the reason for banning Volourn, if it should ever come to that, wouldn't be because of his opinions but because of the way he expresses them, around 6000 times in every single thread, ad nauseum. It's very different from having an opinion. Having the freedom of speech (or opinion) does not give you the right to scream 'fire!' in a crowded theater no matter what your opinion on public disturbance may be.

We've tried to set ourselves apart from the 'masses' ever since we started this website, as a website devoted to true role-playing rather than RPLite or having nonsensical and repeated arguments about Bioware's greatness and how great it bloody is or bloody isn't. I believe that the perpetuation of these idiotic arguments we seem to find ourselves embroiled in every other thread (which may or may not have anything to do with the argument) does not spell well for our future as an objective, informative website that operates on the open sharing of ideas and the discussion of those ideas thereof. Having arguments over NWN's superiority to every other game is hardly what I'd refer to as a constructive argument, and it is true that the source of almost all of these arguments is perpetuated by none other than Volourn.

So, what's the solution?

Volourn wrote:
If the powers to be don't want me posting here; they have the power to stop me. Otherwise stop whining. Even if I am what you say I am (retarded, moron, troll, etc., etc.); you'll just have to deal with it until they tell me to shut up.

And it's posts like the following which make us no different from the IPLY forums:

Volourn wrote:
LOL LOL LOL

 

[Diogo Ribeiro]

While i agree with Exitium that the boards aren't exactly as steady as some months ago, i'd also like to state that its unfair to criticize Volourn alone. The reason why i say this is that its not very fair to criticize Volourn for presenting valid points on behalf of a game and say he is an instigator, when most of us do the opposite (ie, criticize it) and many times do it unprovoked (i admit i slinged some mud towards Bio-related posts, wheter they deserved it or not).

So i suggest we should really start anew on this. I agree that Volourn takes Bio-defending to a whole new level of unbearableness, but to be honest, so does some of the anti-Bio posts. Besides its a matter none of the people involved will ever agree with it, wheter they present facts or opinion, so i suggest that if its such a pressing matter, then let those specific debates happen in private messages, not on the forums.

With this said, i hope no one misconstrues what i've said into personal attacks or taking sides (as i never do it), but rather as an opinion of what is happening and of what should be done.

 

[Spazmo]

Now, okay, Volourn is a moron. There's no question there. But I think banning someone just because they're a moron is a BAD THING. Here's what I think needs to happen:

1. Volourn realises nobody cares what he thinks about BioWare, Troika or cheese,
2. Volourn realises this site he's decided to infest with his bullshit is virtually unified in disagreement with him,
3. Volourn realises continuing to post here is uterly useless since he has no hope of ever changing anyone's opinion on anything since we're all stubborn as mules and he couldn't convince his way out of a paper bag,
4. Volourn scurries back to the IPLY boards to talk with ShadowPaladin about how fucking great yet another D&D RPG made by BioWare will be,
5. There is much rejoicing!

Five easy steps to happniess! What I'm saying here is: Volourn, your input here at RPGCodex is worthless. It's not constructive and only leads to pointless and annoying arguments. You're wasting your time and that of others by being here. I am vehemently opposed to banning people for having differing opinions because that's flat out unethical. But it helps to know when you're not welcome.

 

[Greenskin13]

Mmmm, that's an idea. 100 words would certainly detract anyone from making a dumb comment, and make people think about if what they're posting is really worth it.

You haven't been to GameFAQs, have you?

No, I was told that GameFAQs carries the plague, and just reading it can cut one's life expectancy and IQ in half.

Seriously though, GameFAQs has a word count? I would never have guessed that.

 

[Diogo Ribeiro]

Mmmm, that's an idea. 100 words would certainly detract anyone from making a dumb comment, and make people think about if what they're posting is really worth it.

You haven't been to GameFAQs, have you?

No, I was told that GameFAQs carries the plague, and just reading it can cut one's life expectancy and IQ in half.

Seriously though, GameFAQs has a word count? I would never have guessed that.

What i meant was, that 100 words would won't necessarily detract anyone from making a dumb comment. GF doesn't have a limit, but they are capable of posting long-winded posts with zero intelligent points.

 

[Sol Invictus]

Five easy steps to happniess! What I'm saying here is: Volourn, your input here at RPGCodex is worthless. It's not constructive and only leads to pointless and annoying arguments. You're wasting your time and that of others by being here. I am vehemently opposed to banning people for having differing opinions because that's flat out unethical. But it helps to know when you're not welcome.

It doesn't help when you're a troll by nature. In fact, trolls by nature love the negative attention and that's precisely what Volourn is getting, and enjoying all at the same time.

In any case, I'm not suggesting that we ban him for his opinions but rather the way he starts up these idiotic arguments in just about every post you can think of, effectively killing the original discussion and furthermore perpetrating the decay of quality of the forums we've grown to know and love for their intellectual content.

If he won't change his ways, or as a better alternative, leave on his own merit, something is going to have to be done about it soon.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Damn, Volourn is becoming more popular then ever. Everybody's taking about him, there are debates, he's got his own thread and a song, damn.

Anyway, banning is wrong, he likes to argue, who isn't, he uses every opportunity to praise Bio and NWN, many people including myself use every opportunity to kick Bio, no big deal. I argued with Volourn a lot, and as responsible for thread's hijacking as he is. I agree with Spazmo that we need to put all this silliness about BIo aside and move on. Any constructive and the most impressive arguments have already been said, so is there a point?

Volourn, I'm certain that you like these forums, you spend a lot of time here, and don't go all macho "I don't care, they can kick me out, etc". You do care, and you know it. I feel responsible for the negativity as we argued a lot lately although our positions are well known to each other. So I respect your opinions and won't provoke you again. I'm sure you can do the same. There are plenty of other topics to discuss.

 

[Shevek]

I remember I rcently tried to start a thread about role playing in general. It was an issue I found interesting and that I wanted to explore (though I am sure it had been discussed before). The first reply was Volourn hijacking the thread by bashing ToEE (a game he knew I liked alot). His commentary was barely related to the topic at hand and phrased in a way that was meant to both annoy and spark antagonistic debate. I mean, he is conciously attempting to bring down the level of quality in these forums. He comes out of left field with a constant barrage of negative feedback in both threads related AND unrelated to the topics he discusses. There are better ways to phrase your opinions and share them than how Volourn does. I dont think banning him is the only solution but he should be aware that the wave of opinion on these boards is largely against his own and attempting to repeatedly smear his opinion rudely upon our faces is in bad form.

 

[Volourn]

Please, this is a joke. I very rarely start to threads to begin with. The only time I really mention anything about BIO is when people say soemthing like BIO sucks, or BIo is crap, or BIO is balony. I guess it's okay to repeat audnauseum whne it's something someone wnats to hear; but when it's not; "Let's ban him!" You sound like the BIO fanboys on the BIo baords, or the BIS boards, or the Atari boards. I say, huh, huh.

VD, youa re right. I do like this forum overall. If I didn't, I wouldn't be posting here at all. However, to say I'm the only repetive person (which you aren't but others are) is ludricous to say the least.

Please Shevek, tell the truth. Your thread was baasically a repeated post from the Atari boards concerning TOEE as well as rpg in general. Discussing TOEE was very much on topic in that thread. Heck, if I rvall, I wans't the only one in that thread that the premis of that post was wrong. Go figure. Bahsing TOEE? Do you realize I like TOEE? Too bad you think otherwise. And, so what if you like it a lot and I bash it; people bash BIo games even though they know others like it. I'm not too worried if people bash NWN as it surely doens't hurt my enjoyment of it. I just like debating with people who can handle a debate. ie SP, and VD, and others.

Rudely smear my opinion in your face? As in what you, and others do? Yeah, I see. Can dish it out; but not take it out I see?

VD, I have no problem discussing non BIO topics; but if someone posts about them; I won't avoid it either. Like I stated above, I tend not to start threads. Most people here always bring up BIo to bash them. So, boo hoo; if I defend them.

Some people should look in the mirror before they start whining about others. Do I repeat myself often? Sure. So do 99% of the posters here.

Enjoy yourselves. :D

 

[Vault Dweller]

I was thinking about this shit and here is my overall opinion.

First of all, this situation is absurd. A lurker who could be a troll says he doesn't like something, blame it on one of the regulars and everybody's suddenly getting pitchforks? What, Volourn's single-handedly brought the mighty Codex down? Ridiculous! If the quality of the site / posts/ discussions have gone down, every-fucking-body is to blame for that. If people have something important to share, fire away, if not, don't blame somebody else. Suppose Volourn is banned tomorrow, what, the air in Codex would become cleaner? Everybody would suddenly smarten up and start typing philosophical revelations like monkeys on steroid? No fucking way. As for the quality of boards, it's a process, topics, discussions, ideas, etc come and go. Games worthy of discussions come and go. Games worthy of collective hate come and go. Anyway, If things are that bad, why don't everybody who bitched about quality start a quality thread and lead by a fucking example. I'm more concerned about thread locking, moderation, and banning people.

 

[Briosafreak]

People remember Volourn was once banned from the Bio boards, if you did the same you would be following their steps, and we don`t want that right? :D

 

[Shevek]

Come on VD, look at that last response.

I pull a quote for a ToEE messageboard post and try to talk about another more general issue (in another thread) then the guy spouts off and starts a litany of ToEE criticisms. I call him on derailing (here) and he fires back with a personal insult. What is this, man? The man doesnt know the time and place to frame his comments under. He said it himself, he is looking to debate. Someone who is looking to play Devil's Advocate 24/7 does not engender a very productive forum for discussion.

*edit*
Anyways, Im not that regular here and my post count is low, so maybe I should just keep my opinion to myself on this topic. However, I will say that my discussions here have been worthwhile in spite of Volourn's participation not because of it.