Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

About the Big Total Conversion Mods like Skywind/Skyblivion

gurugeorge

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Aug 3, 2019
Messages
7,437
Location
London, UK
Strap Yourselves In
Yes, and I count myself among those people as well. And Bethesda knows about them too. However, it's quite telling they are happy let modders to the heavy lifting for them, and produce the good stuff like Frostfall for them. In a vanilla TES, that shit would never fly. Hence, what we are getting are theme parks instead of the real thing. That doesn't mean that Bethesda doesn't try to improve their formula, but they simply have to do it in an inoffensive way. And they've found it with the most popular mods, houses. Hence, Fallout 4 and settlements. So, maybe the grouping that includes builders won't be that inappropriate in the future.

I think so long as Bethesda keep the possibility open for modders to mod the simulation back into their games, then I'm happy with that. My worry is that because even doing that much requires some work on Bethesda's part, at some point they might decide it isn't worth their while any more, so modding possibilities get closed down (to the point that all the modders are able to do is some cosmetics, or maybe a quest or two). I think that would be a mistake for them (I mean clearly, the modding scene has contributed to the longevity of their games), but you never know with suits, sometimes they chase after odd ideas and forget their core constituencies.
 

thesheeep

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Mar 16, 2007
Messages
9,939
Location
Tampere, Finland
Codex 2012 Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Codex+ Now Streaming! Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Torment: Tides of Numenera Codex USB, 2014 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Bubbles In Memoria A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Nothing wrong with the Morrowind combat system.
It's actually the last of the series to feature RPG combat (indirect control, your character does the attacking) instead of trivialized action combat (direct control, you do the attacking).

I wish more games would feature Morrowind style combat. Or both variants, as it would be very easy to implement both (just set to-hit chance to 100% in case of action combat mode).

There might be nothing wrong with the system on paper. In practice it's not suitable for the medium of a FP action rpg. Ask anyone what's the first thing they could change about morrowind and the answer is almost invariably the combat because it feels odd and is boring/ involves no player skill which is absolutely appropriate for a classic turn based rpg but TES really isn't that and thus it feels wrong.
I couldn't disagree more.
It only feels wrong if you do not understand what is happening on the screen. I understand perfectly what happens on the screen, and that it isn't me making the attacks, but the character - I just click the mouse to give the attack command, aimed roughly at the enemy. Which is the very core of being of an RPG and the prime distinction between that and an action game - abstraction. And as soon as you grasp that, and also enjoy RPGs more than action games, Morrowind's combat becomes the best of the series.

Just because you look through the eyes of the character, doesn't mean you are the character. It's still just a "puppet" in your hands, just as it would be in an isometric game.

Of course, some parts of Morrowind combat were undeniably clunky. Like unclear hit/miss feedback and ranged aiming being weirdly FPS-like, but that's just graphics/UI, not down to systems.

And honestly, "ask anyone" just boils down to what most people prefer. And that is usually just the lowest common denominator and has nothing to do with quality design.
It's like asking people if they'd prefer to read Harry Potter or Freud.
I'll be honest, I'd pick Harry Potter, but when it comes to games, I'd pick the Freud variant.

I'm partial to the idea that it would be more enjoyable with more dynamic animation and better feedback but I still think it is all wrong for the type of game TES games are
Well... certainly wrong for the type of game TES games are now, which is just action games with a thin layer of RPG on top, boiling down to little more than dress-up.
But I can easily imagine a true RPG with an (improved) style of Morrowind-like combat, for example also including pausing the game to aim and select shots/spells/etc, queueing of actions, and others.
And as I said, making this more action-like to appease a larger audience would be trivially easy as all that is required is removing the to-hit check. It's what I would do, anyway. Giving options as long as implementing the option does not deter too many resources from the core game.
 

MpuMngwana

Arbiter
Joined
Sep 23, 2016
Messages
336
And honestly, "ask anyone" just boils down to what most people prefer. And that is usually just the lowest common denominator and has nothing to do with quality design.

I feel you, bro. Last week I went to a nice restaurant and ordered a piece of shit. But the fuckers were pandering to the lowest common denominator and insisted on serving me food, so I stormed out in rage.
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom