Incline Actively participate in the creation of an RPG? How willing would you be?

[Adrian Scheff]

I've started work on a small(ish) rpg, as a side-passion project. I'm fleshing out the docs for now, stats and so forth. Probably soon will start working on a prototype in Godot.
Not going to spoil the surprise (cause It's the second day I've worked on it so I have little idea) but ... it's going to be a blend of stuff I've enjoyed and you probably enjoyed too.
(Wiz8, bit of Arcanum, bit of Fallout, Darkest Dungeon, Dungeoun Crawl Stone Soup, bit of Tolkien, etc).
The main thing about this RPG is that it's going to have a certain thing I've always wanted to play. MU-FUCKING-TATIONS. Mutations.
Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup had a couple but It didn't satisfy my appetite.

So I'm thinking to use mutations as a feature and cheat of sorts. A cheat because there'll be no equipable weapons or armour. Everything will happen through mutations (armour, weapons, ranged, etc). This will make the development faster and easier for me.

Other than that it's going to be a cave crawler of sorts (descend deeper into a mining/dwarven tunnel). 5 characters, maybe 1 animal. No magic cause magic is hard to dev (but ranged attacks & crowd control). Plenty of races (19 sitting in draft right now), maybe professions (or not cause mutations), backgrounds probably, character creation (if it's going to be 25% as good as Wiz8 char creation - HOORAY), lots of stats, skills, etc.

Good AF combat. Almost no story. HARD & challenging but not stupidly so. No permadeath unless the whole team is down (and then you'll revert to a previous save).

Also for the graphics I'm thinking of something REAL special. Very minimalist because:
1. It would look shitty with shitty graphics.
2. It will make the game stand out from the crowd of rpg's made with ugly/stock tiles.
3. Have I told you about reducing dev time??

So basically it's going to be a lot of nicely colored text BUT not a classical text based game. Too painful to play that. I guess we'll both see soon how it will look and behave.
Right now I have some Photoshop concepts but things might change. Maybe I'll add some (homemade) graphics that will not spoil the minimalist effect.
Won't share concept screenshots because I don't them floating like turds around the internet.

The reason I'm telling you this is as follows:

I want to involve the community as soon as possible. Would do so with:
1. Twitch sessions of live coding & implementation. (cause donations & visibility & community)
2. Discord channel. This will allow for moar interaction, feedback, etc.

The game is NOT going to be free! I intend to take your hard-earned money shamelessly, but only if you'll allow it ))

Depending on your reactions I'll start working sooner or later and involving the community or not! This is actually the first step, isn't it?

Now my question to you is:

We could make some game dev history boys & girls!
How willing would you be to actively participate in Twitch live sessions & Discord?

[EDIT] - I've created a discord server for the game (nicknamed Mutagen Six). If you've never used discord you can still join. It's easy to use for quick and painless exchange of information. Just click on the link below and you'll get an invite (you'll need a discord account)
https://discord.gg/d3yanh3e

 

[A horse of course]

I will make dismissive comments about it in shoutbox

 

[Morblot]

Doesn't sound like my kind of game.

 

[ChaDargo]

Are you talking about a game where the graphics are represented as they are in a Rogue-like (ASCII), or a game that's just represented in sentences/paragraphs/etc? It sounds like you mean Rogue-like. Also, what sort of Photoshop concepts would you use for either type of game?

I do like your idea of everything being represented in terms of mutations. Would be interested to find out more.

 

[bionicman]

I like how motivated you are to make this game, that's good. Remember that game dev is more difficult than it seems, so try to keep that motivation through tough times, i.e. it's all about persistence.

I recommend you check out these games for inspiration (rare commercially-successful ASCII roguelikes):

- https://store.steampowered.com/app/333640/Caves_of_Qud/

- https://store.steampowered.com/app/722730/Cogmind/

I'm not personally into Twitch and Discord, but I'll try to give you feedback if you post updates here during the development of the game.

 

[Bester]

text based game

No magic cause magic is hard to dev

The fuck am I reading?

Also, and this applies to all projects. I can't care unless I have guarantees of:
- it getting finished within the next 2 years and not being dropped cause you ran out of steam
- you being competent

The only way you can guarantee those things is by having released something previously. Have you?
Also your game idea are problematic to say the least.

Let's go back a few daces for a second. Game genres evolve. The RPGs evolved from text-based games into graphics-based games. You refuse to do graphics and you revert to the outdated formula of text -- FINE. But at least offer something new. Make it look like the text-based genre branched off and actually evolved, like it didn't stagnate for 30 years, like it's not a 30 year old stale soup.
Involve GPT-3 somehow in the text commands or some other AI technologies, base your game on an interesting setting that became public domain, hire writers to write some deep story & dialogues. If we're in text territory, use the fucking text, would you? "Almost no story" -- god, what a shit idea. I'm sorry, but it's true. Text gives you the possibility to go WILD with the story. You look at text and see nothing but a way to convey numbers. This is the reason the early 1990s RPGs died and the genre evolved very significantly to adapt & survive.

Right now I have some Photoshop concepts

Use figma for that. We're not in 2010.

Twitch sessions of live coding

Zero chance of anyone actually watching that.

I want to involve the community as soon as possible.

Have something to show, before involving anyone.

 

[Savecummer]

i will meditate on it
oooommm

 

[Adrian Scheff]

Are you talking about a game where the graphics are represented as they are in a Rogue-like (ASCII), or a game that's just represented in sentences/paragraphs/etc? It sounds like you mean Rogue-like. Also, what sort of Photoshop concepts would you use for either type of game?

I do like your idea of everything being represented in terms of mutations. Would be interested to find out more.

A combination of them both (ASCII & sentences). Creatures & characters are represented by words. Actions are represented by words. But instead of using the keyboard you can use the mouse to select characters, perform actions, etc. Just because you asked I'll show you an early graphical concept work (like super early, 2nd day of gamedev early).
What do you think?

 

[Adrian Scheff]

I like how motivated you are to make this game, that's good. Remember that game dev is more difficult than it seems, so try to keep that motivation through tough times, i.e. it's all about persistence.

I recommend you check out these games for inspiration (rare commercially-successful ASCII roguelikes):

- https://store.steampowered.com/app/333640/Caves_of_Qud/

- https://store.steampowered.com/app/722730/Cogmind/

I'm not personally into Twitch and Discord, but I'll try to give you feedback if you post updates here during the development of the game.

You're spot on about persistance. Motivation is fleeting, discipline is everlasting. (Jock Willing has a great book called Freedom through Discipline).
Also, cool text games, didn't knew about Caves of Qud, thanks!

I appreciate you being willing to give feedback here!
The sentiment is shared apparently - currently there are zero votes for Twitch/Discord and four for RPGcodex as a feedback ground.

The only way you can guarantee those things is by having released something previously. Have you?

a couple, no rpg's though.

Also your game idea are problematic to say the least.

What would you change about this idea?

Let's go back a few daces for a second. Game genres evolve. The RPGs evolved from text-based games into graphics-based games. You refuse to do graphics and you revert to the outdated formula of text -- FINE. But at least offer something new. Make it look like the text-based genre branched off and actually evolved, like it didn't stagnate for 30 years, like it's not a 30 year old stale soup.
Involve GPT-3 somehow in the text commands or some other AI technologies, base your game on an interesting setting that became public domain, hire writers to write some deep story & dialogues. If we're in text territory, use the fucking text, would you? "Almost no story" -- god, what a shit idea. I'm sorry, but it's true. Text gives you the possibility to go WILD with the story. You look at text and see nothing but a way to convey numbers. This is the reason the early 1990s RPGs died and the genre evolved very significantly to adapt & survive.

Haha, not going to contradict you. Text based games indeed offer lots of opportunities for experimentation. I would love to tinker with AI but my machine-learning skills are almost non-existent.

i will meditate on it
oooommm

Awesome. Have you thought about trying Gamitate for doing this meditation?

 

[bionicman]

The concept looks ugly (obviously cause it's an early concept), but I get how you envision the visual presentation of the game, it's not bad.

Now, about that grid... I once made a 2d strategy game prototype which had a hexagonal grid and hexes were a source of immense suffering for me. Maybe because I'm not good enough of a coder, I don't know.
The advantage of hexes is it looks better aesthetically than a square grid (kind of how isometric perspective looks better than an orthogonal grid), but you'll have to invest more effort into it. So, be wary of that.
Just glance at this page to see how complicated it can get: https://www.redblobgames.com/grids/hexagons/

Also, a suggestion... Since you're making a ASCII-based game, you should try to be consistent with the art direction. What I mean by this is try to make everything be ASCII. By that I mean, make those orange outlines and hexes dashes like this: _ | / \ instead of drawn oblique lines. Also, make all the text be the same *monospace* font, and keep it the same size. Now, how do you would do this depends on you... You could make all graphics actual ASCII or you could use sprites like this and then write and apply some fragment shader that ASCIIfies it all.

Finally, (another suggestion) don't go to wild with the colors and stick with some pleasing color palette. Best would be to steal some color-limited one from a color-palette site like this: https://lospec.com/palette-list/steam-lords (Not sure if that particular color palette I linked works for you, but you get the idea). Make sure your background color is not (0,0,0) but some very dark color instead, e.g. dark yellow in your case, if you're going for that yellow look, kind of how Caves of Qud (that game I linked) has a dark green for its background. Looks a lot better in my opinion.

Anyways, I hope I didn't sound too condescending with my suggestions here, good luck with the project.

 

[Bester]

What would you change about this idea?

What do you think I would change about your idea, considering what I said in my previous post? I literally said everything, jesus christ man. Sorry, but learn to read.

 

[Adrian Scheff]

The concept looks ugly (obviously cause it's an early concept), but I get how you envision the visual presentation of the game, it's not bad.

Now, about that grid... I once made a 2d strategy game prototype which had a hexagonal grid and hexes were a source of immense suffering for me. Maybe because I'm not good enough of a coder, I don't know.
The advantage of hexes is it looks better aesthetically than a square grid (kind of how isometric perspective looks better than an orthogonal grid), but you'll have to invest more effort into it. So, be wary of that.
Just glance at this page to see how complicated it can get: https://www.redblobgames.com/grids/hexagons/

Also, a suggestion... Since you're making a ASCII-based game, you should try to be consistent with the art direction. What I mean by this is try to make everything be ASCII. By that I mean, make those orange outlines and hexes dashes like this: _ | / \ instead of drawn oblique lines. Also, make all the text be the same *monospace* font, and keep it the same size. Now, how do you would do this depends on you... You could make all graphics actual ASCII or you could use sprites like this and then write and apply some fragment shader that ASCIIfies it all.

Finally, (another suggestion) don't go to wild with the colors and stick with some pleasing color palette. Best would be to steal some color-limited one from a color-palette site like this: https://lospec.com/palette-list/steam-lords (Not sure if that particular color palette I linked works for you, but you get the idea). Make sure your background color is not (0,0,0) but some very dark color instead, e.g. dark yellow in your case, if you're going for that yellow look, kind of how Caves of Qud (that game I linked) has a dark green for its background. Looks a lot better in my opinion.

Anyways, I hope I didn't sound too condescending with my suggestions here, good luck with the project.

Condescending? Man, this is some great advice and tips! I wish everyone would be this ... condescending!
Thank you!

 

[ChaDargo]

Spoiler

Are you talking about a game where the graphics are represented as they are in a Rogue-like (ASCII), or a game that's just represented in sentences/paragraphs/etc? It sounds like you mean Rogue-like. Also, what sort of Photoshop concepts would you use for either type of game?

I do like your idea of everything being represented in terms of mutations. Would be interested to find out more.

A combination of them both (ASCII & sentences). Creatures & characters are represented by words. Actions are represented by words. But instead of using the keyboard you can use the mouse to select characters, perform actions, etc. Just because you asked I'll show you an early graphical concept work (like super early, 2nd day of gamedev early).
What do you think?

Okay, that answers my question. I was in no way interested in a literal "text-based adventure" style game.

bionicman's mention of Caves of Qud is interesting, because I believe that game has mutation as a significant aspect of one of the two races you can pick. I'm not a big fan of the game's esoteric conventions/lore, so I've only played a few hours of it and read about it, but that might be something to look into as a frame of reference for your system.

I like the concept abstractly and the bare-bones visual concept seems like it would work. I'm curious, what language/engine do you intend to use? Have you begun any spreadsheet work or have you done any prototyping in actual code?

 

[ChaDargo]

As an aside, I completely disagree that no one would watch live coding. It's actually very popular--assuming the coder brings something unique to the table: a unique concept, a unique personality, unique expertise, or all of the three.

Handmade Hero is a good example. He isn't an exception, he's just particularly brilliant and thus particularly popular. There are plenty of people getting thousands of views (as opposed to Casey Muratori's tens of thousands).

 

[Zed]

There are perhaps a million ideas men to every person actually being able to implement any of it. I assume you'll do the bulk if not all the coding yourself.

To get people to join off-site channels you'd probably have to release something playable first.

 

[Adrian Scheff]

I like the concept abstractly and the bare-bones visual concept seems like it would work. I'm curious, what language/engine do you intend to use? Have you begun any spreadsheet work or have you done any prototyping in actual code?

Hey, thank you for your interest!
I would use Godot since I have experience with it and (almost) released another game with it. I started a bare bones project in Godot for experimentation with mechanics.
As for spreadsheets - oh, a man of good taste! Love'm. It was one of the first things I did, a spreadsheet with stats and derived stats, trying to get a feel for what works best.
Here are the bare bones that I fiddle with right now, there will be more derived stats but those will depend on race, profession, background etc. Thinking to use a 1-10 range for the main stats (STR, DEX,etc) like Fallout 1/2. 1-20 also crossed my mind but I think 1-10 allows for a better understanding of the stat's level. As for 1-100 - nevel liked those, it's too much (even though Wiz8 uses it).

 

[Adrian Scheff]

As an aside, I completely disagree that no one would watch live coding. It's actually very popular--assuming the coder brings something unique to the table: a unique concept, a unique personality, unique expertise, or all of the three.

Handmade Hero is a good example. He isn't an exception, he's just particularly brilliant and thus particularly popular. There are plenty of people getting thousands of views (as opposed to Casey Muratori's tens of thousands).

Huh, didn't knew about Handmade Hero. Seems like a good inspiration for ideas about streaming gamedev. Thanks.
You know what I was thinking to do in regards to the style of streaming?

I was thinking on picking up some medieval/fantasy costumes and stream/code while dressed in those. Something colorful like that maybe to have a good thumbnail and attract potential viewers:

 

[ChaDargo]

Spoiler

As an aside, I completely disagree that no one would watch live coding. It's actually very popular--assuming the coder brings something unique to the table: a unique concept, a unique personality, unique expertise, or all of the three.

Handmade Hero is a good example. He isn't an exception, he's just particularly brilliant and thus particularly popular. There are plenty of people getting thousands of views (as opposed to Casey Muratori's tens of thousands).

Huh, didn't knew about Handmade Hero. Seems like a good inspiration for ideas about streaming gamedev. Thanks.
You know what I was thinking to do in regards to the style of streaming?

I was thinking on picking up some medieval/fantasy costumes and stream/code while dressed in those. Something colorful like that maybe to have a good thumbnail and attract potential viewers:

I like your flare, not my style but being willing to put yourself out there in an expressive way is awesome.

It's good to see you're working with spreadsheets, and Godot is a great tool, although I'm not yet familiar with it. Most of my experience, albeit somewhat limited, is with Python, although I'm learning C/C++ at the moment.

I'd be interested in assisting inasmuch as I'm capable. I think I could be useful in terms of Python prototyping, which would work well with GDScript. I'm also primarily a fiction writer, if that would be of any use. Do you have any contact information you'd like to share? I can't send you a direct message given your current status on the site and continuing on this thread seems cumbersome.

 

[bionicman]

I was thinking on picking up some medieval/fantasy costumes and stream/code while dressed in those. Something colorful like that maybe to have a good thumbnail and attract potential viewers:

Masquerading as a clown for attention doesn't work in a world that's already full of clowns.

 

[ChaDargo]

I was thinking on picking up some medieval/fantasy costumes and stream/code while dressed in those. Something colorful like that maybe to have a good thumbnail and attract potential viewers:

Masquerading as a clown for attention doesn't work in a world that's already full of clowns.

True.

 

[Darth Canoli]

So, basically, you want to develop a game but with as less development as possible and you're going for a niche genre that's not going to pay for any bill.

Why not making a premium module for KotC2? The game will be released soon, it's already playable and bug free, was even first completed on july probably.

Solasta also comes with some dev tools for module creation, not sure about premium ones though.

It's a win-win-win situation for you, for the player base and for the devs of those games.

 

[Adrian Scheff]

I've created a discord server for the game (nicknamed Mutagen Six). If you've never used discord you can still join. It's easy to use for quick and painless exchange of information. Just click on the link below and you'll get an invite (you'll need a discord account)
https://discord.gg/d3yanh3e

 

[Adrian Scheff]

So, basically, you want to develop a game but with as less development as possible and you're going for a niche genre that's not going to pay for any bill.

You spotlighted my biggest fear.

As for making mods for other games - it's not really my thing. I'd rather work on my own games. Thank you for your suggestions though!

 

[Darth Canoli]

I've created a discord server for the game (nicknamed Mutagen Six). If you've never used discord you can still join. It's easy to use for quick and painless exchange of information. Just click on the link below and you'll get an invite (you'll need a discord account)
https://discord.gg/d3yanh3e

I'm sure you're going to have great conversations with googlebot, bingbot and yahoobot...

 

[Adrian Scheff]

I'm sure you're going to have great conversations with googlebot, bingbot and yahoobot...

Bots are wonderful company. Silent, do a lot of work with zero complaints, polite. I'm having MEE6 as a guest of honor on every discord server.
[edit] - MEE6 is an automated bot that greets new users on discord and performs other actions. This reply is half-joke, I thought it obvious but I'm not that good at making jokes.